Pressure is on McBeane - PFT discussion

[Thrivefourfive]

In free agency and the draft they will get offensive linemen and receiver(s). The question will be will they be the right players and will the staff coach them up properly.
 

 

[Thrivefourfive]

22 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

For 5 years since acquiring Josh, 60% of cap expenditure has gone to defense.  If Beane & Sean want to keep their jobs for the next 5 years those numbers need to flip immediately. Or they will divide and eventually lose the locker room. You know Josh & Stefon are already pissed.

It’s sad. You’re right, but this goes against every instinct they possess as football people. We might need to come to grips that the writing is already on the wall here. Diggs is already making more noise than any Brady WR ever did, INCLUDING RANDY FREAKING MOSS! I don’t think JA is going to be able to carry the defense first company line for McBeane like Brady did for Belichick for all those years. 

[uticaclub]

4 minutes ago, Thrivefourfive said:

It’s sad. You’re right, but this goes against every instinct they possess as football people. We might need to come to grips that the writing is already on the wall here. Diggs is already making more noise than any Brady WR ever did, INCLUDING RANDY FREAKING MOSS! I don’t think JA is going to be able to carry the defense first company line for McBeane like Brady did for Belichick for all those years. 

Nor should he. Belichick never made the stupid in-game decision McDermott makes and while he missed on his fair share of picks in the draft in 20+ years, the team was in a position to have a winning record without Brady, without Allen we are bottom 5 team. Diggs & Allen should voice their displeasure to get some heat of Pegula to make changes. You don’t become a billionaire by settling for “good enough”

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, beebe said:

 

They said this about Bill Cowher. 

 

They said this about Tony Dungy.

 

They said this about Tom Coughlin.

 

They said it about these guys all at the exact same time!

 

Then Cowher broke through in 2005. Dungy broke through in 2006. Coughlin broke through in 2007. 

 

Then they moved on to Andy Reid. And now Andy has broken through twice.

 

The guys who experience super early success in getting their Super Bowl ring — the Sean McVays, the Mike McCarthys, the Doug Pedersons, the Sean Paytons — those guys are the outliers. The rest of the coaching world is subject to dealing with the odds, which are NEVER in their favor, bad variance and bad luck. 

 

Once again, those guys didn't have Allen.  If they had, they wouldn't have lasted nearly as long.  Reid would have won a SB with Allen in Philly.  Hell, a bunch of our teams from 2000 - 2016 would have at least "made the playoffs" with Allen, perhaps done better than we have therein.  

 

I don't think that Cowher, Dungy, or Coughlin were stupid enough to produce a "13 Seconds" or whatever kind of "defense" we were playing against Cinci.  IDK, maybe it was the Participation Ribbon Defense or something.  But can you imagine Coughlin having done that?  LOL, I can't, not ever, even as a rookie coach.  

 

When you post the #1 or #2 Defense, and then go into the  playoffs and do those things, it strongly suggests that you're out of your league in the playoffs.   When you allow that same defense to allow 27 points and 412 Yards to Cinci, 36 points and 488 Yards to KC in regulation, 24 points and 472 Yards to the Colts led by Rivers, and 38 points and 439 Yards to the Chiefs, etc., then it suggests that you're out of your league.  

 

The Cinci D allowed an average of fewer than 17 PPG in three playoff games this season.  

KC allowed an average of 20 PPG  against Jax & Cinci.  

 

The Bengals and their 6th and 17th ranked Defense this and last season have allowed an average of fewer than 19 PPG in their 7 playoff games the last two seasons.  

KC and their 16th and 8th ranked Defense this and last season have allowed an average of 26.5 PPG in their 6 playoff games.  

We and our 2nd and 1st ranked Defense have allowed an average of over 29 PPG in our four playoff games this and last season, including a 17 point game against NE which has no offense.  Then of course "13 Seconds" and our "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot D" against Cinci.  

 

Again, if Allen weren't here, we wouldn't have even made the playoffs under McD & Beane much less won the division or a single playoff game.  I mean LMAO, can you imagine what we'd have been like over the past five or six seasons with Peterman, Barkley, or Keenum.  LOL  What, an average of 6 wins/season?  

 

 

 

34 minutes ago, Billl said:

 

Bills fans massively overstate the offensive line issues.  The bigger issue is that Josh tends to be a slow decision maker.  The difference between how quickly Burrow got rid of the ball compared to Allen when they played was striking.

 

Singletary, Cook, and Moss all averaged over 4.5 YPC, so they can clearly run block.  They may not be great in pass protection, but they are much better than they're made out to be on here.  Anyone who thinks swapping out a few linemen is suddenly going to make a huge difference is delusional.

 

Which of our OL-men would you say are individually good?  

 

 

[B-Man]

 

[beebe]

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

This is flat out wrong.

 

 

Since realignment in 2002, there's been 109 coaches hired. 

 

54 of them have NEVER made the playoffs.

 

Of the 55 that have made the playoffs, only 38 of them have won a playoff game. 

 

Only 16 of those who have made the playoffs have a winning playoff record. 

 

Doug Marrone (2-1) is one of the 16 coaches.

 

Rex Ryan (4-2) is another. 

 

Only eight of the 109 have won a Super Bowl. 

 

Most coaches are failures. 

 

Two coaches who aren't failures: Bill Belichick and Andy Reid. 

 

They've won eight of the last 20 Super Bowls. 

 

One coach is in Buffalo's division - and dominated with the greatest QB of all time. The other is in their conference - and is dominating with arguably the second greatest QB of all time. 

 

Let's stop acting like this is easy. 

Edited February 24, 2023 by beebe

[PBF81]

24 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Belichick never made the stupid in-game decision McDermott makes ... 

 

Can you imagine Belichick doing what we did on the KO and the last couple of plays in the "13 Seconds" game.  

 

Or in our "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot D" game vs. Cinci this year.  

 

LOL  

 

I can't see any competent coach allowing any of that.  

 

It's great that we have a character-oriented chime monkey as a Head Coach, that's all fine and dandy, but when you conduct "13 Seconds" and "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot," you draw the kind of attention to yourself that is occurring now.  That's on you.  Also, not coming clean in press conferences, and then preaching accountability, BUT, when it's your own coordinators that need to be held to account you do nothing except fire some poor slob coach who was missing his starting players for much of the season, yet still had them playing well, ... I mean are we to take that seriously?   LOL  

 

But I have a hunch that he's got a lot more power than he should by design.  I mean name one other head coach in modern history that got to choose his own GM?  And it makes no sense that in being able to do so, that the GM you hire has the ability to fire you.  Why do we think that that GM also came from Carolina.  LOL   Maybe there is one, I don't know of any though.  Belichick kind of is as he's his own GM, but he's also won 6 SBs and it didn't take him 10 or 15 years of head coaching to do it.  

 

If there is one then I suspect that it was a coach that earned that privilege.  McD didn't earn that.  I suspect that it's going to take Pegula to make the appropriate changes, but I'm not sure he's up to the task these days.  

 

13 minutes ago, beebe said:

 

 

Since realignment in 2002, there's been 109 coaches hired. 

 

54 of them have NEVER made the playoffs.

 

Of the 55 that have made the playoffs, only 38 of them have won a playoff game. 

 

Only 16 of those who have made the playoffs have a winning playoff record. 

 

Doug Marrone (2-1) is one of the 16 coaches.

 

Rex Ryan (4-2) is another. 

 

Only eight of the 109 have won a Super Bowl. 

 

Most coaches are failures. 

 

Two coaches who aren't failures: Bill Belichick and Andy Reid. 

 

They've won eight of the last 20 Super Bowls. 

 

One coach is in Buffalo's division - and dominated with the greatest QB of all time. The other is in their conference - and is dominating with arguably the second greatest QB of all time. 

 

Let's stop acting like this is easy. 

 

That would make more sense in the context of this conversation if you listed the QBs that all of those coaches had.  

 

Allen is a generational talent.  Let's make that exercise easy.  Of those coaches inferred, how many had a QB Allen's caliber or even close?  

 

Let's start there.   

 

Belichick coincidentally made the playoffs and won a SB the very same season that Mo Lewis made his QB change for him, since he couldn't do it.  

 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by PBF81

[LABILLBACKER]

26 minutes ago, Thrivefourfive said:

It’s sad. You’re right, but this goes against every instinct they possess as football people. We might need to come to grips that the writing is already on the wall here. Diggs is already making more noise than any Brady WR ever did, INCLUDING RANDY FREAKING MOSS! I don’t think JA is going to be able to carry the defense first company line for McBeane like Brady did for Belichick for all those years. 

I don't care what their personal instincts are anymore.  What Brady did to cover up Bill's reluctance to surround him with amazing weapons was phenomenal. Josh is a great qb. Maybe the most athletic qb to ever come to Buffalo.  But as others have accurately said he is prone to the occassional brain fart. He can't absorb a HC hell bent on selecting mostly defensive people. This is where Beane has to step in and say enough. We're giving JA 60% of future assets. If you don't like that Sean then there's the door.

Edited February 24, 2023 by LABILLBACKER

[78thealltimegreat]

7 hours ago, Gregg said:

 

Didn't the Bengals get blown out by the Browns this past year.

Yes they were absolutely trucked by the Jacoby Brissette lead Browns right before their winning streak this belief the Bengals are some kind of juggernaut is ridiculous they are really good in close games. Heck they played a 1 score game with Malik Willis and Tennessee. 
The Bills just had a Murphys Law game at the absolute worst time.

52 minutes ago, Billl said:

 

Bills fans massively overstate the offensive line issues.  The bigger issue is that Josh tends to be a slow decision maker.  The difference between how quickly Burrow got rid of the ball compared to Allen when they played was striking.

 

Singletary, Cook, and Moss all averaged over 4.5 YPC, so they can clearly run block.  They may not be great in pass protection, but they are much better than they're made out to be on here.  Anyone who thinks swapping out a few linemen is suddenly going to make a huge difference is delusional.

So what you’re saying is you want Allen to just take a checkdown every play like Burrow does gotcha. 

[uticaclub]

5 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I don't care what their personal instincts are anymore.  What Brady did to cover up Bill's reluctance to surround him with amazing weapons was phenomenal. Josh is a great qb. Maybe the most athletic qb to ever come to Buffalo.  But as others have accurately said he is prone to the occassional brain fart. He can't absorb a HC hell bent on selecting mostly defensive people. This is where Beane has to step in and say enough. We're giving JA 60% of future assets. If you don't like that Sean then there's the door.

while Walker, Amandola, Branch, etc where never phenomenal talents, they were productive & reliable in the offense. The same cant be said for McKenzie, Davis, Kumerow. Yes, thet flashed but thats it

[WideNine]

7 hours ago, FireChans said:

KC has also drafted majority defense.

Philly too, although in fairness I would not be focused on offense and OL help if I had Philly's OL.

 

It is not unique to the Bills to use early draft capital on defense, but striking out with those high end defensive picks where you have mainly found rotational talent or players that may be on a 4-5 year learning curve before they peak is not going to cut it.

 

High draft needs to equate to higher impact quickly while those guys are on cheap rookie deals.

 

Only OL investment I recall in the early rounds was Ford and we know how that went. Needs to be better when trading up like that.

 

Jury is still out on Brown and Doyle.

 

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by WideNine

[Billl]

29 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

So what you’re saying is you want Allen to just take a checkdown every play like Burrow does gotcha.

Josh Allen AYA in 2023: 7.7

Joe Burrow AYA in 2023: 7.6

 

Josh Allen AYA in the divisional round: 5.21

Joe Burrow AYA in the divisional round: 7.83

 

So what you're saying is that you just make up whatever narrative fits your agenda, gotcha.

Edited February 24, 2023 by Billl

[PBF81]

17 minutes ago, beebe said:

 

 

Since realignment in 2002, there's been 109 coaches hired. 

 

54 of them have NEVER made the playoffs.

 

Of the 55 that have made the playoffs, only 38 of them have won a playoff game. 

 

Only 16 of those who have made the playoffs have a winning playoff record. 

 

Doug Marrone (2-1) is one of the 16 coaches.

 

Rex Ryan (4-2) is another. 

 

Only eight of the 109 have won a Super Bowl. 

 

Most coaches are failures. 

 

Two coaches who aren't failures: Bill Belichick and Andy Reid. 

 

They've won eight of the last 20 Super Bowls. 

 

One coach is in Buffalo's division - and dominated with the greatest QB of all time. The other is in their conference - and is dominating with arguably the second greatest QB of all time. 

 

Let's stop acting like this is easy. 

 

OK, so I took a few of the top TD producing career QB/Coach combos and here's what's up.  

 

Holmgren inherited a 4-12 team made the playoffs in seasons 2-5 going to the NFC CG in his 4th and winning a SB in his 5th, all with Favre.  

 

Belichick, who had been 5-13 with Bledsoe in NE and 36-44 over five seasons in Cleveland, 41-57 total, had his Asst. OC Mo Lewis bench Bledsoe and put Brady in, and won the SB immediately in his 7th season.  Before that he had no QB even approaching Allen's talents.  

 

Dungy made the playoffs in four of his first 6 seasons in Tampa with three different QBs.  Dilfer, Shaun King, and Brad Johnson.  Imagine if he had Allen.  Then he went to Indy, where he made the playoffs all 7 seasons that he was there, went to the AFC CG in his 2nd season there, and won the SB in his 5th season, with Manning.  He won the SB with the 23rd ranked D.  

 

Sean Payton won a SB with Brees as his QB in his 4th season as a Head Coach.  

 

Mike McCarthy inherited a 4-12 team with a well-past prime Favre, and with Rodgers starting his third season, McCarthy won the SB in his 5th season with Rodgers.  

 

People are comparing Reid with McNabb to these guys, but put any of those QBs or Allen on Reid's Eagles back then and he wins one or two.  As it was he inherited a 3-13 team, went to the playoffs 10 times, four times to the NFC CG and once to the SB, with McNabb and Vick.  Put Allen or any of the above on those five teams and I'd say he comes way with two or three SB wins.  

 

Did any of those coaches do something as egregious as "13 Seconds"?  Or leave their defense in the end zone sipping tea against the Bengals?  LOL 

 

McD has had 5 seasons, and unlike the above, he's now regressing, and, he's had top defenses.  

 

Whatever the situation is, he's created it.  His only notable playoff season was two years ago in 2020.  He's lost in the Divisional Round in the two seasons since.  Again, this is his and Beane's mess.  Firing the Safeties Coach who had Hyde out all season and Poyer between out and hobbled, LOL, is hardly ante-ing up on grabbing the bull by the horns in the accountability department.  

 

 

[PBF81]

32 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

What Brady did to cover up Bill's reluctance to surround him with amazing weapons was phenomenal. Josh is a great qb. Maybe the most athletic qb to ever come to Buffalo.  But as others have accurately said he is prone to the occassional brain fart. He can't absorb a HC hell bent on selecting mostly defensive people. This is where Beane has to step in and say enough. We're giving JA 60% of future assets. If you don't like that Sean then there's the door.

 

Allen's easily the most athletic QB to come to Buffalo, he may be the most athletic QB in NFL history.  He's definitely in the conversation.  Kelly wasn't as athletic, perhaps Kemp or another was close, but they weren't as good as Allen is otherwise. 

 

See my post above about Brady.  Belichick wouldn't have replaced Bledsoe with Brady if Mo Lewis hadn't made that decision for him.  Then on top of it he kicks us in the nuts by trading Bledsoe, one of the worst playoff QBs of all-time, to us.  Everyone said he was nuts to trade in the division, I said he was genius at the time.  LOL  

 

Here's my thing with Allen and his brain-farts as you put it, we don't know how he'd be playing if he had an offensive line that was better than a bunch of journeymen 1 and 2 year signees, changing significantly every single season since he's been here, or with decent overall direction otherwise.  I'd like to reserve final judgement on Allen's ultimate potential until I see him play with the same OL (for the most part) for at least two seasons, and with play-calling and competent coaching otherwise where he doesn't have to not only overcome the absence of a running game, but the defensive lapses of allowing 30-some points regularly in the playoffs either.  

 

 

[tuckan]

3 hours ago, Billl said:

Josh Allen AYA in 2023: 7.7

Joe Burrow AYA in 2023: 7.6

 

Josh Allen AYA in the divisional round: 5.21

Joe Burrow AYA in the divisional round: 7.83

 

So what you're saying is that you just make up whatever narrative fits your agenda, gotcha.

Why the difference between regular season and playoff game?  Could it be that the Bills defense stunk?  I saw Josh running for his life.  Not sure exactly what you saw.  The offensive line is substandard by any metric.

[boater]

Reading all the negative tripe in this thread causes nausea.

 

You wouldn't know the Bills finished 13-3.

 

My God.. how spoiled these fans have become.

[Dopey]

4 hours ago, beebe said:

 

 

Since realignment in 2002, there's been 109 coaches hired. 

 

54 of them have NEVER made the playoffs.

 

Of the 55 that have made the playoffs, only 38 of them have won a playoff game. 

 

Only 16 of those who have made the playoffs have a winning playoff record. 

 

Doug Marrone (2-1) is one of the 16 coaches.

 

Rex Ryan (4-2) is another. 

 

Only eight of the 109 have won a Super Bowl. 

 

Most coaches are failures. 

 

Two coaches who aren't failures: Bill Belichick and Andy Reid. 

 

They've won eight of the last 20 Super Bowls. 

 

One coach is in Buffalo's division - and dominated with the greatest QB of all time. The other is in their conference - and is dominating with arguably the second greatest QB of all time. 

 

Let's stop acting like this is easy. 

And it took Reid 2 decades to get his first. 

[Dopey]

9 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Tomlin has 2 rings to keep secure. Who knows if clappy will ever snif one.

Tomlin has 2 SB rings? 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

I think there is less pressure than the media claims.

 

Top 5 GM, top 5 coach. Won’t be easy to replace. 

[Dopey]

11 hours ago, loveorhatembillsfan4life said:

Do you think Mcd is still too slow to adapt mid season or  this braint trust has gone too far with the belief of having our players grow and get better..Maybe just another trait of being too safe?

 

I was thinking about the Hines trade. He was traded for on November 1 and saw little to no action in his first few games.  Meanwhile  McCaffrey was on a plane learning the playbook and involved right away. I know they are not on the same level of talent  but it seemed like a  awfully long time to figure out a way to get Hines involved. 

 

Maybe Sims is right and we need to be more open to brining guys in like a K Toney. We always find some reason to say nah we don’t need a guy like that but on the flip side the Chiefs are saying yeah another weapon for Mahomes. Anytime I hear a Wr is available you can bet the Chiefs are seriously looking into them. 
 

Veach right now is taking Beanes lunch money. Maybe time to get a bit more out of the comfort zone? I don’t know I’m just spitballing thoughts.. this off-season still feels about as depressing as Beanes PC. 
 

I want a SB! 

 

 

When I read your he bolded, my first thought was we lost to Minny at the halfway point and went on to win 8 in a row. Including a playoff win. We’re 4-3 in the playoffs the past three seasons. He hasn’t won a SB, I get it, but damn.