Lamar Jackson wants guarantees that exceed Watson contract

[Mark80]

Seriously, how freaking stupid are the Browns.

[machine gun kelly]

This is a play for Lamar to get out of Baltimore.  I bet if he gets to go where he wants he’ll accept a more reasonable offer.  Still in the 40’s per year, but not all guaranteed.  He’s an idiot if he thinks he can strong arm any owner into that one.

 

He’s from South FL, so how desperate is Ross to get him and drop Tia before they commit to Tua.

 

Where they don’t have tons of cap but it is SW FL is Tampa.  Brady’s gone.

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, JoPoy88 said:

So he wanted to play but not for the team for which he was contracted to play. He also made clear he would utilize his no trade clause to torpedo any deal he didn’t like (and to ensure he got the deal he liked from his new destination.) You can find a different verb other than “pout” I suppose to describe his actions, but it certainly seems appropriate to me. People in here are dumping on Jackson for allegedly refusing to play for his team through a documented injury late in the season, while a healthy Watson did something worse (among other, far worse, things.)

It seemed like the Texans and league didn’t want him playing that season either. 

[BillsShredder83]

17 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

He showed his character by playing at all. He risked playing and got injured believing the Ravens were going to do right by him. Lamar is a better QB than Murray/Wilson. The Ravens offered him a contract less than theirs. Total disrespect IMO. Lamar Jackson is the main reason Ravens stadium is filled. That alone should warrant the money

funnt that the ppl defending him are commonly using watson, murray, and wilson as comparable situations lol i agree, but not for the reasons they think

[BillsShredder83]

1 hour ago, JoPoy88 said:

So he wanted to play but not for the team for which he was contracted to play. He also made clear he would utilize his no trade clause to torpedo any deal he didn’t like (and to ensure he got the deal he liked from his new destination.) You can find a different verb other than “pout” I suppose to describe his actions, but it certainly seems appropriate to me. People in here are dumping on Jackson for allegedly refusing to play for his team through a documented injury late in the season, while a healthy Watson did something worse (among other, far worse, things.)

were not discussing morality here. were talking talent on the field and being healthy

[JoPoy88]

4 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

were not discussing morality here. were talking talent on the field and being healthy

“We” are? Thanks for framing that for all of us. i’ll try to stay within your lines.
 

My reply was just concerning availability. Doesn’t really matter why. A statement was made that Jackson shouldn’t expect to get anything close to Watson due to missing some time injured. Well Watson missed a whole heap of time. Cleveland still shelled out. As far as talent goes, Watson looked like trash last year in his abbreviated season. 

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, Mark80 said:

Seriously, how freaking stupid are the Browns.

Theres a theory, that’s likely wrong - but interesting, that states the Browns knew what they were doing and are actually genius because they knew who was coming up for deals next…

 

Jackson, who they knew would demand the same deal, likely more… and Burrow, playing for a team that has money issues.  Both in their division, both using the Watson deal as a template that becomes a major headache for their owners. 

[Jauronimo]

12 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Idk. I’d take Lamar’s MVP year over Watsons best season.

 

I don't think I'd take any other Jackson season over any other complete Watson season.  Its been all down hill since Jackson's MVP season.  If 2019 was prime Jackson, it was the shortest prime ever seen.  

[davefan66]

I just don’t believe Jackson is worth

10 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

One way to put things in perspective is to ask: would Bills fans prefer the Jets land Carr, or Lamar?

 

Our answers (and rationale) to that will be revealing. 

 

(I'm not immediately sure which I prefer; my brain wants to shout out Lamar Jackson due to availability concerns and his less-than-optimal WR utilization (stunting Wilson's progression would be a bonus). I worry that Derrek Carr, under favorable conditions, can competently steer the Jets offense. Just as long as they keep him extra clean. For a guy who wants to be a leader, he sure does appear to wilt under duress.) 

I’d rather the Jets get Lamar. I’m not scared of either of them, the least being Jackson.  

 

Jackson is an exceptional athlete, but he is an average QB.  I just don’t think he is a good enough QB to warrant contract numbers greater than watson.  To that end, I definitely don’t believe watson is worth his contract numbers either. 

[BillyBilliams]

17 hours ago, CNYfan said:

He may be, if he ends up on the Jets.

 

Let him go to the Jets.  You can't really restructure money the way other teams can.  Jets pay Lamar what he wants, then these awesome players they just drafted comes up for deals and they can't pay them.  I'm good with that.

[TNBills]

13 hours ago, Dopey said:

Exactly. This is the reason I don’t resort to that kind of crap. I will say this:

Once the regular season is over, players have been paid what the contract says. Playoff games are paid separate of the contract. He was essentially a free agent, with no guarantee other than the playoff check. From what I’ve read, he would have earned around $42k. Some here question his character and/or his intelligence. That was a smart move. If you reply that you would have played because you are a high character guy, you’re either lying or dumb as 💩. Think about it, if you get hurt, I guarantee your teammates that you fought for won’t pony up the potential $$ you would lose. Maybe they’ll start a gofundme for you. 
 

You keep saying you don't resort to that crap, yet you are are going to the other side that he was smart about it and played it well. You make assumptions that I would be lying or dumb as $h*t if I say I would have played. Well we know what happens when you assume. Too many examples of good to great players battling through injury with teammates in the playoffs to show that what Lamar did was selfish and undeserving of the contract he is asking for. 

On the other comment of him basically being a free agent as soon as the regular season ended is just a BS statement by someone looking to defend him. He becomes a free agent at the same time as everyone else, at the start of the new league year which is March 15th. Was he also getting paid to milk his injury at the end of the regular season?

[Lfod]

Why not try, I don't blame him. The team ran his contact out it's also on them for waiting around and it just so happens another guy got a crazy payday. 

 

I don't care if he is worth it or not and we will know his real value when some one pays him. If he shoots for the stars and has to settle back down because no one will pay him that much so be it. If he gets that bag then good on him and momma. 

Edited February 24, 2023 by Lfod

[Saxum]

1 hour ago, somnus00 said:

Lamar is the "elite" QB that scares me the least. McFrazier seem to have a good recipe/gameplan for limiting him. 

 

He is the one who came up with strategy to contain him and frustrate him in playoffs which other teams copied.

 

Isaiah McKenzie was used to emulate him in practice for that game. 

https://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/2021/01/inside-the-buffalo-bills-game-plan-that-shut-down-ravens-lamar-jackson.html

Quote

Jackson was under pressure all game long. According to ESPN’s NextGen stats, the Bills generated pressure on nearly 37% of Jackson’s drop backs. Hughes led the way with seven of his own. When the Bills sent six or more pass rushers, they generated QB pressure on nearly 56% of those plays.

Quote

Defensive end Trent Murphy was activated for just the second time since the Bills’ bye week in the middle of November because of an injury to second-year DE Darryl Johnson. Murphy helped set the edge and contain Jackson for all three quarters before he left with a concussion on the final play of the third quarter. Murphy had a tackle for a loss where he read Jackson’s fake on a zone read keeper and take him down. Murphy also put the hit on Jackson that ended his night after a bad snap.

The key was while Bills were pressuring him on one side Murphy was doing contain on opposite side not allowing him to get our nor failing for fakes going into backfield and giving an escape valve.

[2003Contenders]

Jackson (who desperately needs to hire a quality agent) has to get it through his head that the Browns deal with Watson was an aberration and is accepted as such around the league -- and should not be viewed in any way as some sort of "starting point" in negotiations.

[ColoradoBills]

19 hours ago, Gregg said:

Lamar should have taken the 250M/133M guaranteed.

 

Yes.  he should have signed right after Josh Allen did.  He was offered more than Josh and 2 years would already have been serviced.

Josh has already been paid over $85M with another $28M coming immediately when he gets restructured in a couple of weeks.

 

Next month Josh also gets another $13.5M of his 2024 salary guaranteed AND $16.5M of his 2025 Roster Bonus!

Let's not forget all the money Josh has already received (way more than Lamar's $32M) has been invested and is getting a return.

 

Josh has zero fear if he has a devastating injury.  Lamar stands to lose a boatload is he is injured playing under a tag.

[Behindenemylines]

What would be interesting is if nobody offers his amount and he sits a season to avoid the tag. What would he look like and how much would his value diminish. 
 

I believe in his mind his value might go up 

 

I don’t mind Jackson and he appears to be a decent guy.  Just not fully aware of his actual situation and the fact he’s probably 65% of the way to his useful expiration date. 

[BarleyNY]

16 minutes ago, Calidiehard said:

You keep saying you don't resort to that crap, yet you are are going to the other side that he was smart about it and played it well. You make assumptions that I would be lying or dumb as $h*t if I say I would have played. Well we know what happens when you assume. Too many examples of good to great players battling through injury with teammates in the playoffs to show that what Lamar did was selfish and undeserving of the contract he is asking for. 

On the other comment of him basically being a free agent as soon as the regular season ended is just a BS statement by someone looking to defend him. He becomes a free agent at the same time as everyone else, at the start of the new league year which is March 15th. Was he also getting paid to milk his injury at the end of the regular season?

While it could’ve been stated more civilly, @Dopey is 100% correct. Jackson would’ve been risking upwards of 9 figures by playing. Any sane agent or advisor would have told him to sit. Certainly there are always people who do not act rationally because of emotion or other reasons, but in this case those would have been rare exceptions. The Ravens knew that the scenario they found themselves in was a possibility and they still didn’t think Lamar was worth what he was asking. Sometimes when both sides make business decisions it plays out like this. 

[Jerome007]

20 hours ago, Gregg said:

Lamar should have taken the 250M/133M guaranteed.

What? Are you serious? 133M is an insult. How can he pay his groceries? Have you seen the price of eggs lately?

 

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Yes he should have taken this. Sweet deal. And maybe he should realize that the Ravens basically built their offense for his unique set of skills. He likely won't be as good elsewhere. It seems he wants out. 

[Saxum]

47 minutes ago, Jerome007 said:

Yes he should have taken this. Sweet deal. And maybe he should realize that the Ravens basically built their offense for his unique set of skills. He likely won't be as good elsewhere. It seems he wants out. 

 

And the OC who specializes in Running Offenses is out so it is clear that they wish to change offense now that Jackson is not in reasonable picture.

[BillsFan4]

The Ravens offer seems good, but it depends on if the $133M was the total guaranteed or what was guaranteed at signing.

 

If you look at the total guaranteed money:

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/broncos-give-russell-wilson-monster-extension-where-qb-stacks-up-among-richest-contracts-in-nfl-history/

 

the $130M in guarantees doesn’t even put him in the top 5 for QBs. It would put him at #7, just ahead of Matt Stafford.

 

Deshaun Watson - $230 million

Russell Wilson - $165 million

Kyler Murray - $160 million

Aaron Rodgers - $150,815,000

Josh Allen - $150 million

Patrick Mahomes - $141,481,905

Matthew Stafford - $130 million

Dak Prescott - $126 million

 

ESPN is reporting the guaranteed at signing of the other QBs contracts they are comparing Lamar’s offer to, but we still don’t know if the $133M the ravens offered was the total guaranteed or what was guaranteed at signing. It might be the total guaranteed money since it’s coming from the team and I ‘d assume they’d want to make the offer look as good as possible to the press in this case. But it could also be the guaranteed at signing amount since I do believe they are making an honest effort to keep Lamar (so I’m sure they know offering him such low total guarantees compared to other QBs  wouldn’t get it done).

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-free-agency-total-guarantees-vs-full-guarantees-and-the-ways-contracts-should-be-evaluated/

 

for all practical purposes, total guarantees in a QB’s contract are pretty reliably paid since they usually become guaranteed a year prior anyway. But still, I’d like to see what the total guarantees were vs. guaranteed at signing in the contract offered to Lamar, and how it was structured.

 

Structure matters a lot too.

 

For ex: when Allen signed his new deal he took slightly less than Mahomes in total annual value ($43M vs Mahomes $45M). But if you look at the way their contracts are paid out, Allen actually makes more in new money and cash flow than Mahomes every year for his entire 6yr deal.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agents-take-comparing-patrick-mahomes-and-josh-allen-contracts-making-them-nfls-highest-paid-players/

 

The devil is in the details, as they say. Without knowing all the details it’s hard to say if Lamar is being unreasonable.