Von Miller's injury, and pass rush needs this offseason

[Ga boy]

16 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Anyone expecting Von to be himself out the gate would be foolish.  But at the same time, its not impossible either that Von could still be good for us this year assuming he remains healthy.  But admittedly, expecting someone turning 34 in this next season to be who they were is already a tall ask, asking them to do it after an ACL tear is even a bigger ask.  

 

That being said, its a lot different than Tre.  With a CB, the offense directly attacks that player in the passing game.  With a DE, they just want to prevent him from disrupting the play.  So its quite reasonable that Von will still garner some reasonable attention from the opposing team that could benefit the other players on the DL in their opportunities to disrupt the play.  

 

So Von just being out there can still positively impact the team, where as a CB who is slow to react and doesn't have the explosiveness back yet like Tre dealt with this year is a much bigger liability for the defense.  

Agree.  I’m hoping Von will be Von by Thanksgiving.  Yes, a great DE has to be explosive with a good first step, but much of Von’s game is upper body and nobody twists and contorts better.  Work him in slowly in first 9 games.  BTW, we lost the Cincy game due to offense.  It’s a stretch to say that Von would’ve helped.  Go with what we have on D.

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, Ga boy said:

Agree.  I’m hoping Von will be Von by Thanksgiving.  Yes, a great DE has to be explosive with a good first step, but much of Von’s game is upper body and nobody twists and contorts better.  Work him in slowly in first 9 games.  BTW, we lost the Cincy game due to offense.  It’s a stretch to say that Von would’ve helped.  Go with what we have on D.

 

Yeah, I think his recovery on an injury to injury comparison won't be as severe as Tre's, but then again he is also much older than Tre, so hard to say how fast he gets back to being Von or even at all.  

 

But I do think he will be good enough to where he will still make life easier across the DL as opposing OC's will still likely need to account for Von.  While Von does use his speed a lot, he still has an array of moves to the inside where he can still be dangerous even if loses some of his quickness or explosion.  I think saying by Thanksgiving is fair, and where we will need him the most will obviously be the second half of the season and playoffs.

[SCBills]

Watching the Bills/Chiefs Week 6 replay on NFLN at the office.

 

DL looks night and day with Von in there.  Insane how different they look. 

[Simon Says]

22 hours ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Beane will be forced to take an EDGE at 27.  Pass Rush needs serious help

No,too many other needs. Allen and Diggs will have a lot to say about that first pick ( depending on how free agency works out).

IF Edmunds leaves,I would consider adding an OLB with pass rush ability.

[TheWei44]

51 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Watching the Bills/Chiefs Week 6 replay on NFLN at the office.

 

DL looks night and day with Von in there.  Insane how different they look. 

One can hope Von comes back at just the right time: mid/late regular season + playoffs!

[Saxum]

Any time you put a lot of money into a veteran player you are taking chance of player getting injured and needing to be replaced by less expensive players since the kitty has been spent.

[John from Riverside]

I am concerned that Epenesa and Basham are the same player essentially good enough in a rotation to play, but not difference makers
 

I would bring in a guy like Melvin Ingram, a solid vet to work opposite Russo until Von Miller gets back and then you got a rotation of those three I would trade one of Epenesa and Basham

[first_and_ten]

11 hours ago, Herb Nightly said:

No,too many other needs. Allen and Diggs will have a lot to say about that first pick ( depending on how free agency works out).

IF Edmunds leaves,I would consider adding an OLB with pass rush ability.

 

I will Implode if the Bills take a pass rusher with their first pick

[Big Blitz]

I won’t hate it if they take someone they think is Chris Jones.  
 

The problem I have is that Beane no longer has the benefit of the doubt.  
 

I’m resigned to we are going to be taking a step back and probably a big one in 2023 and that is on him and McD.  
 

Currently this roster - say it loses Edmonds and Poyer - it might instantly drop out of the top 5-7 rosters in the AFC.  I KNOW - have to see what we do.  Have a whole off season.  Good thing we have cap room … ……
 

No Von to start.  Say no Edmonds and Poyer.  Might trade Oliver.  Are you freaking kidding me.  Who would argue we still have a top 5-7 roster?   
 

Chiefs (and they’re going to be adding big)

Bengals

Dolphins 

Chargers 

Ravens?

Browns?

Jaguars?? (They’ll also be adding)

Broncos??? 
Jets????

Edited February 22, 2023 by Big Blitz

[Don Otreply]

On 2/20/2023 at 2:48 PM, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Beane will be forced to take an EDGE at 27.  Pass Rush needs serious help

You did that on purpose, heads will explode nonstop for days if they go D in the first round, it will be fun to read the reactions if/when it happens, right now McDermott and Beane are deciding which edge they are gonna take, 😂

[SCBills]

17 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I am concerned that Epenesa and Basham are the same player essentially good enough in a rotation to play, but not difference makers
 

I would bring in a guy like Melvin Ingram, a solid vet to work opposite Russo until Von Miller gets back and then you got a rotation of those three I would trade one of Epenesa and Basham

 

Epenesa, imo, is probably worth a modest second contract as DE4.  

 

Basham, such a bad pick.  Just incredibly frustrating.  May be time to cut our losses with him.

 

If we subscribe to needing a top tier defensive talent level.. and it seems we do.. Here's what I would do:

 

EDGE:  Von - Rousseau - (FA) Ingram - Epenesa  - Lawson (Or Kingsley Jonathan)

 

DT:  Jones - RD2 Pick - Phillips - RD4/5 Pick

 

*Cut/Trade Basham. Cut Settle. Trade Oliver. Extend Jones. 

 

*Frees up a good bit of money and solves the DT issue of having nobody under contract for '24. 

 

*Once Von is healthy, that is a dominant DL, assuming (yea yea I know) that they hit on an early DT pick to pair with Daquan Jones. 

 

*This also assumes we let Edmunds walk and sign a vet MLB.

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by SCBills

[Airseven]

On 2/20/2023 at 12:10 PM, Yantha said:

Miller's injury is a tough one to bounce back from to the level we expect at his price tag.  I hope he recovers to 100%, but at age 33, is that likely?

 

As much as we've invested in defense via the draft, plus our obvious need on the OL, will we be needing a Von Miller "replacement"?  Draft/FA?

 

Absolutely (and unfortunately), they need more DL this off-season. Miller can't be counted on. Lawson may have earned himself another decent contract in free agency that could price him out of Buffalo. Epenesa should be shopped for a mid-round pick. They literally have Rousseau and nothing else at edge. 

[Dr. Who]

Just now, SCBills said:

 

Epenesa, imo, is probably worth a modest second contract as DE4.  

 

Basham, such a bad pick.  Just incredibly frustrating.  May be time to cut our losses with him.

 

If we subscribe to needing a top tier defensive talent level.. and it seems we do.. Here's what I would do:

 

EDGE:  Von - Rousseau - (FA) Ingram - Epenesa  - Lawson (Or Kingsley Jonathan)

 

DT:  Jones - RD2 Pick - Phillips - RD4/5 Pick

 

*Cut/Trade Basham. Cut Settle. Trade Oliver. Extend Jones. 

 

*Frees up a good bit of money and solves the DT issue of having nobody under contract for '24. 

 

*Once Von is healthy, that is a dominant DL, assuming (yea yea I know) that they hit on an early DT pick to pair with Daquan Jones. 

 

*This also assumes we let Edmunds walk and sign a vet MLB.

 

If you go that route -- and I agree with who you cut and trade -- you'd better invest in free agent oline and maybe a WR#2, because you know McBeane is going to pick a safety up in the first three rounds as well. I don't know if we have the resources for all that, even with freed up money.

[SCBills]

Just now, Dr. Who said:

If you go that route -- and I agree with who you cut and trade -- you'd better invest in free agent oline and maybe a WR#2, because you know McBeane is going to pick a safety up in the first three rounds as well. I don't know if we have the resources for all that, even with freed up money.

 

Agreed.  And this is why it's so frustrating to hear podcasters and analysts act like we're in cap jail this off-season because of guys like Edmunds and Oliver.  They do not, and should not, be here next year.  Cap problem solved.

 

Let's say we cut Basham and Settle, allow Poyer and Edmunds to walk and then trade Oliver.  That frees up quite a bit of money.  

 

We need to add another piece to the pass rush (or we should).  That can't prudently be done by keeping Oliver and Edmunds.  Without them, we have money to sign a Melvin Ingram as DE2/DE3.  We have money to sign a solid vet MLB.  We also have money to sign a good FA IOL as well as potentially bringing in OBJ.  

 

DT also needs to be addressed.  We have nobody under contract for '24.  Is Oliver in our plans?  He shouldn't be.. trade him.  Settle? He shouldn't be.  Cut him.  Extend Jones, bring back Phillips and draft a couple DT's... one early because a big body with some juice next to Daquan is worth it, imo. 

 

Then come draft, even if we use our Day 2 picks on DT and S, pick 27 can be used to the BPA on Offense, whether that's a WR, OL or Bijan.

 

Point is.. we have options to drastically transform this team into one that has vastly improved pieces where it matters.  But we need to be bold and make calculated decisions.  I'm afraid that's just not in the cards for us though... Veach in KC flipped over his secondary, let some DL pieces walk and traded Tyreek Hill last off-season... then won the Super Bowl.   I can tell you pretty confidently, he would flip this Defense over if he was here... he wouldn't stand for 3 years of playoff letdowns from the same side of the ball. 

[Maine-iac]

9 hours ago, SCBills said:

 

Epenesa, imo, is probably worth a modest second contract as DE4.  

 

Basham, such a bad pick.  Just incredibly frustrating.  May be time to cut our losses with him.

 

If we subscribe to needing a top tier defensive talent level.. and it seems we do.. Here's what I would do:

 

EDGE:  Von - Rousseau - (FA) Ingram - Epenesa  - Lawson (Or Kingsley Jonathan)

 

DT:  Jones - RD2 Pick - Phillips - RD4/5 Pick

 

*Cut/Trade Basham. Cut Settle. Trade Oliver. Extend Jones. 

 

*Frees up a good bit of money and solves the DT issue of having nobody under contract for '24. 

 

*Once Von is healthy, that is a dominant DL, assuming (yea yea I know) that they hit on an early DT pick to pair with Daquan Jones. 

 

*This also assumes we let Edmunds walk and sign a vet MLB.

 

............. and they draft a "high motor" DT in RD2 that weighs 285.

[philholbroo]

Trade for Montez Sweat, not sure Washington would but they may need to before signing Young long term.

[John from Riverside]

On 2/20/2023 at 11:15 AM, H2o said:

Can't do it. There will be no "replacement" for him. They'll just hold out in the hopes he returns healthy, probably re-sign Lawson, and ride it out. 

So I don’t know if I agree with that there are pass rushers out there veteran pass rushers that we could bring in say in Melvin Ingram type that could help with the pass rush until Von gets back and then you would have Vaughn and Melvin, Ingram and Groot on the field together

[JaCrispy]

I wouldn’t mind seeing Groot used more as a 3-tech…he seemed very successful doing that in college…

 

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by JaCrispy

[BillsSbSoon]

On 2/20/2023 at 2:51 PM, arcane said:

I genuinely believe that by Christmas time Von will be as good as ever 

Ok, what makes you think that? Jw

[Franco_92]

3 hours ago, BillsSbSoon said:

Ok, what makes you think that? Jw

It was not as  serious an ACL tear as it could have been and came with minimal important damage aside from the ACL and the meniscus they were cleaning up anyway, versus Tre whose knee was mangled

 

Von has done this rehab before and, regardless of age, is in ridiculous shape and has fine-tuned every aspect of his health and conditioning and preparation. And the ACL is far less stressed doing what DEs do compared to CBs, who are constantly cutting and changing directions and flipping hips at top speeds

 

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by arcane