Do the Bills Under Appreciate Gabe Davis?

[Xwnyer]

Just now, T master said:

I don't believe the Bills do but i think the national media does Beane & Josh feel he is a very good team player that they can depend on to give his all off & on the field & he had a bit of a up & down season last year & i know he's working hard to be better this season .

national media and MANY Bills fans dont believe in Gabe, Many of the drops seem to be under throws.

 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, BananaB said:

Do you not know what consistency is? If a guy has one big game then a bunch of below average games, does that big game cancel out the below average ones? In my opinion I don’t think it does and I’m sure the majority of people will agree with me. I’m not dismissing the yards, I’m looking at every game to see where he got those yards.

 

@Shaw66 knows what consistency is. What he is saying is "Gabe's consistency (or lack thereof) is actually pretty typical for #2 receivers. 

 

For example, let's take Mike Williams of the Chargers. I think most Bills fans would say they'd swap Gabe for Williams straight up if offered the choice. He got a 3 year $20m AAV deal from LAC last spring. Let's compare their 2022 seasons. 

 

Williams played 13 games (5 of them as the #1 in Allen's absence) had 895 yards, 4 TDs (average of 69 ypg)

Davis played 15 games (all as the #2) and had 836 yards and 7 TDs (average of 56 ypg)

 

Davis had 2 games under 20 yards

Williams had 4 games under 20 yards

 

Davis had 9 games between 21 and 70 yards

Williams had 2 games between 21 and 70 yards 

 

Davis had 4 games over 70 yards, but only 1 over 100 yards

Williams had had 7 games over 70 yards, and 4 100 yard plus (worth saying 3/4 100 yard plus came in Keenan Allen's absence when he was essentially the #1)

 

So I think what you'd conclude is that there is actually greater variance for Mike Williams than Gabe Davis. Williams had more big games but more invisible games. Gabe had fewer invisible but fewer difference maker games and was more middling. I think that was Shaw's point. People presume Gabe is way out kilter against other #2s because of his variance and actually it is not that unusual. It is guys like Tee Higgins and Jalen Waddle who are actually the outliers in that they both basically had one bad game and otherwise made an impact most weeks. But remember both of those guys were drafted as #1s and the guys they currently play 2nd fiddle to joined their teams after them (Chase through the draft and Hill via trade). The Bengals are already struggling to decide what to do with Tee (pay him when Chase comes up a year later? Trade him now for what they can get? Let him play out a 4th cheap year then let him walk and take a 3rd round comp pick?). Miami are likely having similar conversations - because the Hill deal is not easily escapable for another 3 seasons. 

 

I repeat - I am not saying the Bills shouldn't be seeking to upgrade at receiver - they should. I'd love a #2 that upgrades on Gabe. But some of the criticisms of him are not actually looking in context at what being a #2 receiver on a team with a good QB really looks like the majority of the time. Maybe it is because we saw the Dolphins x3 in 2022 and the Bengals were the team that knocked us off? But I think people saying "Gabe isn't a number 2 receiver because look at this variance!" are actually not looking at things in the proper context. Gabe Davis is a #2 receiver. He is a middling to lower end #2, but he is a #2, even if I would like the Bills to have a superior #2 option (I actually think they should start be featuring Knox more than Davis... Knox is the second best weapon on the team and they simply have to get him the ball more). 

[Dr. Who]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

@Shaw66 knows what consistency is. What he is saying is "Gabe's consistency (or lack thereof) is actually pretty typical for #2 receivers. 

 

For example, let's take Mike Williams of the Chargers. I think most Bills fans would say they'd swap Gabe for Williams straight up if offered the choice. He got a 3 year $20m AAV deal from LAC last spring. Let's compare their 2022 seasons. 

 

Williams played 13 games (5 of them as the #1 in Allen's absence) had 895 yards, 4 TDs (average of 69 ypg)

Davis played 15 games (all as the #2) and had 836 yards and 7 TDs (average of 56 ypg)

 

Davis had 2 games under 20 yards

Williams had 4 games under 20 yards

 

Davis had 9 games between 21 and 70 yards

Williams had 2 games between 21 and 70 yards 

 

Davis had 4 games over 70 yards, but only 1 over 100 yards

Williams had had 7 games over 70 yards, and 4 100 yard plus (worth saying 3/4 100 yard plus came in Keenan Allen's absence when he was essentially the #1)

 

So I think what you'd conclude is that there is actually greater variance for Mike Williams than Gabe Davis. Williams had more big games but more invisible games. Gabe had fewer invisible but fewer difference maker games and was more middling. I think that was Shaw's point. People presume Gabe is way out kilter against other #2s because of his variance and actually it is not that unusual. It is guys like Tee Higgins and Jalen Waddle who are actually the outliers in that they both basically had one bad game and otherwise made an impact most weeks. But remember both of those guys were drafted as #1s and the guys they currently play 2nd fiddle to joined their teams after them (Chase through the draft and Hill via trade). The Bengals are already struggling to decide what to do with Tee (pay him when Chase comes up a year later? Trade him now for what they can get? Let him play out a 4th cheap year then let him walk and take a 3rd round comp pick?). Miami are likely having similar conversations - because the Hill deal is not easily escapable for another 3 seasons. 

 

I repeat - I am not saying the Bills shouldn't be seeking to upgrade at receiver - they should. I'd love a #2 that upgrades on Gabe. But some of the criticisms of him are not actually looking in context at what being a #2 receiver on a team with a good QB really looks like the majority of the time. Maybe it is because we saw the Dolphins x3 in 2022 and the Bengals were the team that knocked us off? But I think people saying "Gabe isn't a number 2 receiver because look at this variance!" are actually not looking at things in the proper context. Gabe Davis is a #2 receiver. He is a middling to lower end #2, but he is a #2, even if I would like the Bills to have a superior #2 option (I actually think they should start be featuring Knox more than Davis... Knox is the second best weapon on the team and they simply have to get him the ball more). 

What do you make of the argument that deficiencies at slot were what really caused more problems? If so, are you satisfied Shakir and Harty, perhaps, sufficiently address that issue? I surmise Downs could be a superior slot receiver (he's my fourth wr, but the only one likely to be available for the Bills to select imo.) What do you think about grabbing a fella like Kayshon Boutte later in the draft as a possible wr2 candidate down the road?

[John from Riverside]

13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

@Shaw66 knows what consistency is. What he is saying is "Gabe's consistency (or lack thereof) is actually pretty typical for #2 receivers. 

 

For example, let's take Mike Williams of the Chargers. I think most Bills fans would say they'd swap Gabe for Williams straight up if offered the choice. He got a 3 year $20m AAV deal from LAC last spring. Let's compare their 2022 seasons. 

 

Williams played 13 games (5 of them as the #1 in Allen's absence) had 895 yards, 4 TDs (average of 69 ypg)

Davis played 15 games (all as the #2) and had 836 yards and 7 TDs (average of 56 ypg)

 

Davis had 2 games under 20 yards

Williams had 4 games under 20 yards

 

Davis had 9 games between 21 and 70 yards

Williams had 2 games between 21 and 70 yards 

 

Davis had 4 games over 70 yards, but only 1 over 100 yards

Williams had had 7 games over 70 yards, and 4 100 yard plus (worth saying 3/4 100 yard plus came in Keenan Allen's absence when he was essentially the #1)

 

So I think what you'd conclude is that there is actually greater variance for Mike Williams than Gabe Davis. Williams had more big games but more invisible games. Gabe had fewer invisible but fewer difference maker games and was more middling. I think that was Shaw's point. People presume Gabe is way out kilter against other #2s because of his variance and actually it is not that unusual. It is guys like Tee Higgins and Jalen Waddle who are actually the outliers in that they both basically had one bad game and otherwise made an impact most weeks. But remember both of those guys were drafted as #1s and the guys they currently play 2nd fiddle to joined their teams after them (Chase through the draft and Hill via trade). The Bengals are already struggling to decide what to do with Tee (pay him when Chase comes up a year later? Trade him now for what they can get? Let him play out a 4th cheap year then let him walk and take a 3rd round comp pick?). Miami are likely having similar conversations - because the Hill deal is not easily escapable for another 3 seasons. 

 

I repeat - I am not saying the Bills shouldn't be seeking to upgrade at receiver - they should. I'd love a #2 that upgrades on Gabe. But some of the criticisms of him are not actually looking in context at what being a #2 receiver on a team with a good QB really looks like the majority of the time. Maybe it is because we saw the Dolphins x3 in 2022 and the Bengals were the team that knocked us off? But I think people saying "Gabe isn't a number 2 receiver because look at this variance!" are actually not looking at things in the proper context. Gabe Davis is a #2 receiver. He is a middling to lower end #2, but he is a #2, even if I would like the Bills to have a superior #2 option (I actually think they should start be featuring Knox more than Davis... Knox is the second best weapon on the team and they simply have to get him the ball more). 

I think they need to look to add because Gabe Davis will probably not be a bill next year
 

Someone is going to back up the Brinks truck

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

@Shaw66 knows what consistency is. What he is saying is "Gabe's consistency (or lack thereof) is actually pretty typical for #2 receivers. 

 

For example, let's take Mike Williams of the Chargers. I think most Bills fans would say they'd swap Gabe for Williams straight up if offered the choice. He got a 3 year $20m AAV deal from LAC last spring. Let's compare their 2022 seasons. 

 

Williams played 13 games (5 of them as the #1 in Allen's absence) had 895 yards, 4 TDs (average of 69 ypg)

Davis played 15 games (all as the #2) and had 836 yards and 7 TDs (average of 56 ypg)

 

Davis had 2 games under 20 yards

Williams had 4 games under 20 yards

 

Davis had 9 games between 21 and 70 yards

Williams had 2 games between 21 and 70 yards 

 

Davis had 4 games over 70 yards, but only 1 over 100 yards

Williams had had 7 games over 70 yards, and 4 100 yard plus (worth saying 3/4 100 yard plus came in Keenan Allen's absence when he was essentially the #1)

 

So I think what you'd conclude is that there is actually greater variance for Mike Williams than Gabe Davis. Williams had more big games but more invisible games. Gabe had fewer invisible but fewer difference maker games and was more middling. I think that was Shaw's point. People presume Gabe is way out kilter against other #2s because of his variance and actually it is not that unusual. It is guys like Tee Higgins and Jalen Waddle who are actually the outliers in that they both basically had one bad game and otherwise made an impact most weeks. But remember both of those guys were drafted as #1s and the guys they currently play 2nd fiddle to joined their teams after them (Chase through the draft and Hill via trade). The Bengals are already struggling to decide what to do with Tee (pay him when Chase comes up a year later? Trade him now for what they can get? Let him play out a 4th cheap year then let him walk and take a 3rd round comp pick?). Miami are likely having similar conversations - because the Hill deal is not easily escapable for another 3 seasons. 

 

I repeat - I am not saying the Bills shouldn't be seeking to upgrade at receiver - they should. I'd love a #2 that upgrades on Gabe. But some of the criticisms of him are not actually looking in context at what being a #2 receiver on a team with a good QB really looks like the majority of the time. Maybe it is because we saw the Dolphins x3 in 2022 and the Bengals were the team that knocked us off? But I think people saying "Gabe isn't a number 2 receiver because look at this variance!" are actually not looking at things in the proper context. Gabe Davis is a #2 receiver. He is a middling to lower end #2, but he is a #2, even if I would like the Bills to have a superior #2 option (I actually think they should start be featuring Knox more than Davis... Knox is the second best weapon on the team and they simply have to get him the ball more). 

Thanks, Gunner.  You did the homework and took the time to explain the point clearly, with an example.   The fundamental point is that consistency is not a statistic that correlates well with talent, at least in pro football.  I think it's particularly true with the number guy at multiple positions - #2 corner, #2 tackle - but especially with skill position players, because the #2 receiver or the #2 running back simply is not the focus of the offense week after week, because the #1 guy is focus.   That's why he's #1.  

 

I understand your earlier point about doing what the Steelers did/do, which is to keep drafting receivers in rounds 3-5, and it makes sense for two reasons.   One is that every once in a while a real stud shows up there, so if you're drafting regularly there, once in a while you find a real keeper.   The other reason is that you rarely keep your #2 guy for more than a few years.   They get too expensive, or you need someone better.   In fact, that's exactly how the Bills got Davis.   Your point, and I agree, is that you have to keep doing it.  

 

Of course, that's the point for every position.  You have to keep drafting corners, because your number 2 corner never stays for more than a few years.   You have to keep drafting tackles, because either your right tackle isn't good enough or if he is, he becomes too expensive.   The Bills actually have been better on the receiver end than the offensive line end.  The Bills at least invested draft capital in Diggs, Knox, Davis, and Hodgins over the past few years.   They should be drafting twice as many offensive linemen as receivers, and that hasn't happened.   

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

@Shaw66 knows what consistency is. What he is saying is "Gabe's consistency (or lack thereof) is actually pretty typical for #2 receivers. 

 

For example, let's take Mike Williams of the Chargers. I think most Bills fans would say they'd swap Gabe for Williams straight up if offered the choice. He got a 3 year $20m AAV deal from LAC last spring. Let's compare their 2022 seasons. 

 

Williams played 13 games (5 of them as the #1 in Allen's absence) had 895 yards, 4 TDs (average of 69 ypg)

Davis played 15 games (all as the #2) and had 836 yards and 7 TDs (average of 56 ypg)

 

Davis had 2 games under 20 yards

Williams had 4 games under 20 yards

 

Davis had 9 games between 21 and 70 yards

Williams had 2 games between 21 and 70 yards 

 

Davis had 4 games over 70 yards, but only 1 over 100 yards

Williams had had 7 games over 70 yards, and 4 100 yard plus (worth saying 3/4 100 yard plus came in Keenan Allen's absence when he was essentially the #1)

 

So I think what you'd conclude is that there is actually greater variance for Mike Williams than Gabe Davis. Williams had more big games but more invisible games. Gabe had fewer invisible but fewer difference maker games and was more middling. I think that was Shaw's point. People presume Gabe is way out kilter against other #2s because of his variance and actually it is not that unusual. It is guys like Tee Higgins and Jalen Waddle who are actually the outliers in that they both basically had one bad game and otherwise made an impact most weeks. But remember both of those guys were drafted as #1s and the guys they currently play 2nd fiddle to joined their teams after them (Chase through the draft and Hill via trade). The Bengals are already struggling to decide what to do with Tee (pay him when Chase comes up a year later? Trade him now for what they can get? Let him play out a 4th cheap year then let him walk and take a 3rd round comp pick?). Miami are likely having similar conversations - because the Hill deal is not easily escapable for another 3 seasons. 

 

I repeat - I am not saying the Bills shouldn't be seeking to upgrade at receiver - they should. I'd love a #2 that upgrades on Gabe. But some of the criticisms of him are not actually looking in context at what being a #2 receiver on a team with a good QB really looks like the majority of the time. Maybe it is because we saw the Dolphins x3 in 2022 and the Bengals were the team that knocked us off? But I think people saying "Gabe isn't a number 2 receiver because look at this variance!" are actually not looking at things in the proper context. Gabe Davis is a #2 receiver. He is a middling to lower end #2, but he is a #2, even if I would like the Bills to have a superior #2 option (I actually think they should start be featuring Knox more than Davis... Knox is the second best weapon on the team and they simply have to get him the ball more). 

 

Other things to note statistically with regards to Gabe:

 

Yards before catch per reception - 14.4.   This lead the entire league by more than a yard.  And the majority of the guys in the top 10 had lower catch rates.

Average depth of target - 15.3.  This was 5th in the NFL and the guys ahead of him all had fewer than 50 targets. 

Drops - 9.  This is near the top of the league, but guys like Samuel and Ekeler both also had 9 drops with much shorter average target depths.

 

My thoughts?  The guy runs a lot of posts and vert routes, these are not... high probability plays in most cases.  They're also the routes he is most effective on.  Then there's Allen, who while he has vastly improved his underneath accuracy, still misses some dunkers and generally still makes some ball placement mistakes. 

 

I think he could stand to improve his footwork on shorter routes, and just generally come out of breaks quicker.  He had some issues with concentration drops as well.  I also think he played hurt for a good portion of the season.  

[ColoradoBills]

Just want to say to @Shaw66and @GunnerBilland @Beck Water, I enjoyed your posts and replies to each other.

 

This board needs more of that and less "everything sucks" posts.

[Shaw66]

28 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

Just want to say to @Shaw66and @GunnerBilland @Beck Water, I enjoyed your posts and replies to each other.

 

This board needs more of that and less "everything sucks" posts.

Thanks.  I learn a lot in these discussions. 

 

I am, by the way, getting optimistic about the coming season. I have a lot of confidence in McDermott.  I'm counting on Beane bringing home a decent crop.  Won't really know about that until November. 

[ColoradoBills]

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

Thanks.  I learn a lot in these discussions. 

 

I am, by the way, getting optimistic about the coming season. I have a lot of confidence in McDermott.  I'm counting on Beane bringing home a decent crop.  Won't really know about that until November. 

 

I am too.  We've both seen this team since the '60s, so we seen it all.  I can question and complain some, but it's been a pretty exciting time to be

a Bills fan these last few years!

 

 

[ngbills]

4 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Thanks.  I learn a lot in these discussions. 

 

I am, by the way, getting optimistic about the coming season. I have a lot of confidence in McDermott.  I'm counting on Beane bringing home a decent crop.  Won't really know about that until November. 

Oddly, the D has lost the most talent you could say and still has so questions but I still have a lot of confidence they will perform well. I think that falls on believing that McD can figure it out.

 

The O is a big concern. Josh is slowly going to lose the ability to play superman as teams scheme and he gets older. I hope the OL does its job with the changes. But the lack of weapons is a big concern. Diggs is the only player any team has a real concern outside of Allen. And Diggs is not a take-over a game receiver. He needs guys around him to at least be a threat. I just dont think teams are worried about Knox or Davis, and the add's of Harty and Sherfield are lottery tickets. Just a lot of unknowns. They need to get Hopkins, Jeudy or somebody. If not, they are drafting one and hoping for an immediate impact which is not a sure thing. There is work to do and things that need to go right. 

[Shaw66]

13 minutes ago, ngbills said:

 

The O is a big concern. Josh is slowly going to lose the ability to play superman as teams scheme and he gets older. I hope the OL does its job with the changes. But the lack of weapons is a big concern. Diggs is the only player any team has a real concern outside of Allen. And Diggs is not a take-over a game receiver. He needs guys around him to at least be a threat. I just dont think teams are worried about Knox or Davis, and the add's of Harty and Sherfield are lottery tickets. Just a lot of unknowns. They need to get Hopkins, Jeudy or somebody. If not, they are drafting one and hoping for an immediate impact which is not a sure thing. There is work to do and things that need to go right. 

Can someone tell me how to make a Dorsey emoji?    My response to every six out of ten posts would be my Dorsey emoji.   Then all I'd need is McDermott emoji for the other four.  

[Beck Water]

8 hours ago, Xwnyer said:

national media and MANY Bills fans dont believe in Gabe, Many of the drops seem to be under throws.

 

@Xwnyer, that's by definition not a drop.  You may be right that a good number of the targets he doesn't catch were underthrows - that would fit with what Carson Palmer said happened to him when he tried to throw with a partially torn UCL. 

 

But they wouldn't be "scored" as drops, because the definition of a drop is a ball that a receiver can catch with "ordinary" effort - meaning it arrives within a rectangle defined a little differently  by different organizations who score them (the NFL does not), but it's something like from just over the head (arms still bent) to mid-thigh and side to side just outside the shoulders. 

 

That's the reason why many people complain that the "drops" statistic doesn't reflect many balls they see as "an NFL WR should have had that" catchable balls, a ball the receiver could catch by dropping to his knees, or jumping, or extending his arms fully to the side.

[Shaw66]

3 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

@Xwnyer, that's by definition not a drop.  You may be right that a good number of the targets he doesn't catch were underthrows - that would fit with what Carson Palmer said happened to him when he tried to throw with a partially torn UCL. 

 

But they wouldn't be "scored" as drops, because the definition of a drop is a ball that a receiver can catch with "ordinary" effort - meaning it arrives within a rectangle defined a little differently  by different organizations who score them (the NFL does not), but it's something like from just over the head (arms still bent) to mid-thigh and side to side just outside the shoulders. 

 

That's the reason why many people complain that the "drops" statistic doesn't reflect many balls they see as "an NFL WR should have had that" catchable balls, a ball the receiver could catch by dropping to his knees, or jumping, or extending his arms fully to the side.

Something like "beauty is in the eye of the beholder"?

[Beck Water]

7 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

What do you make of the argument that deficiencies at slot were what really caused more problems? If so, are you satisfied Shakir and Harty, perhaps, sufficiently address that issue? I surmise Downs could be a superior slot receiver (he's my fourth wr, but the only one likely to be available for the Bills to select imo.) What do you think about grabbing a fella like Kayshon Boutte later in the draft as a possible wr2 candidate down the road?

 

I believe I'm the one who crafted that argument, the argument being that the Bills actually weren't asking Davis to be a "move the chains" receiver running "move the chains" routes last year, and the problem was we didn't get enough chain-moving from the receivers who WERE running those routes (Crowder, McKenzie, Shakir, Knox).

 

So maybe you already know my answer, but, I am concerned that Shakir, Harty, and Sherfield are NOT enough to address that issue - Harty because he's been injured so much and is so small; Shakir because he couldn't seem to figure out how to dissect zone coverage last season: and Sherfield because the only time he's been productive is in Miami, with defenses scared to death of Waddle and Hill. 

 

I do think we have answers on the roster - the TE on many teams is the go-to "move the chains" man and Knox now seems able to catch; Cook and Hines could be very productive as well in the short passing game - but Dorsey and Josh have to figure out how to use them effectively.  So I see a good sized "3 level WR" who can play outside and at the intermediate level, as the bigger need.

[BananaB]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

@Shaw66 knows what consistency is. What he is saying is "Gabe's consistency (or lack thereof) is actually pretty typical for #2 receivers. 

 

For example, let's take Mike Williams of the Chargers. I think most Bills fans would say they'd swap Gabe for Williams straight up if offered the choice. He got a 3 year $20m AAV deal from LAC last spring. Let's compare their 2022 seasons. 

 

Williams played 13 games (5 of them as the #1 in Allen's absence) had 895 yards, 4 TDs (average of 69 ypg)

Davis played 15 games (all as the #2) and had 836 yards and 7 TDs (average of 56 ypg)

 

Davis had 2 games under 20 yards

Williams had 4 games under 20 yards

 

Davis had 9 games between 21 and 70 yards

Williams had 2 games between 21 and 70 yards 

 

Davis had 4 games over 70 yards, but only 1 over 100 yards

Williams had had 7 games over 70 yards, and 4 100 yard plus (worth saying 3/4 100 yard plus came in Keenan Allen's absence when he was essentially the #1)

 

So I think what you'd conclude is that there is actually greater variance for Mike Williams than Gabe Davis. Williams had more big games but more invisible games. Gabe had fewer invisible but fewer difference maker games and was more middling. I think that was Shaw's point. People presume Gabe is way out kilter against other #2s because of his variance and actually it is not that unusual. It is guys like Tee Higgins and Jalen Waddle who are actually the outliers in that they both basically had one bad game and otherwise made an impact most weeks. But remember both of those guys were drafted as #1s and the guys they currently play 2nd fiddle to joined their teams after them (Chase through the draft and Hill via trade). The Bengals are already struggling to decide what to do with Tee (pay him when Chase comes up a year later? Trade him now for what they can get? Let him play out a 4th cheap year then let him walk and take a 3rd round comp pick?). Miami are likely having similar conversations - because the Hill deal is not easily escapable for another 3 seasons. 

 

I repeat - I am not saying the Bills shouldn't be seeking to upgrade at receiver - they should. I'd love a #2 that upgrades on Gabe. But some of the criticisms of him are not actually looking in context at what being a #2 receiver on a team with a good QB really looks like the majority of the time. Maybe it is because we saw the Dolphins x3 in 2022 and the Bengals were the team that knocked us off? But I think people saying "Gabe isn't a number 2 receiver because look at this variance!" are actually not looking at things in the proper context. Gabe Davis is a #2 receiver. He is a middling to lower end #2, but he is a #2, even if I would like the Bills to have a superior #2 option (I actually think they should start be featuring Knox more than Davis... Knox is the second best weapon on the team and they simply have to get him the ball more). 

Mike Williams is another inconsistent WR. The thing is, he has more highs than he does lows and Gabe is the opposite. Mike has 5 games under 70 yards to Gabes 10, 5 games under 50 yards to Gabes 9, and 5 games under 40 to Gabes 8…. Mike wasn’t held for under 70 yards in back to back weeks all season where Gabe was held under 50 in back to back games numerous times. At the end of the season he had was held under 60 yards for 6 straight weeks, and he only eclipsed 40 twice over that stretch. To be honest, looking this over this is just another poor comparison. 

Edited March 30, 2023 by BananaB

[Jay_Fixit]

11 minutes ago, BananaB said:

Mike Williams is another inconsistent WR. The thing is, he has more highs than he does lows and Gabe is the opposite. Mike has 5 games under 70 yards to Gabes 10, 5 games under 50 yards to Gabes 9, and 5 games under 40 to Gabes 8…. Mike wasn’t held for under 70 yards in back to back weeks all season where Gabe was held under 50 in back to back games numerous times. At the end of the season he had was held under 60 yards for 6 straight weeks, and he only eclipsed 40 twice over that stretch. To be honest, looking this over this is just another poor comparison. 

It is a bad comparison. Shaw’s

last few posts are just him writing words.

[Dr. Who]

5 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I believe I'm the one who crafted that argument, the argument being that the Bills actually weren't asking Davis to be a "move the chains" receiver running "move the chains" routes last year, and the problem was we didn't get enough chain-moving from the receivers who WERE running those routes (Crowder, McKenzie, Shakir, Knox).

 

So maybe you already know my answer, but, I am concerned that Shakir, Harty, and Sherfield are NOT enough to address that issue - Harty because he's been injured so much and is so small; Shakir because he couldn't seem to figure out how to dissect zone coverage last season: and Sherfield because the only time he's been productive is in Miami, with defenses scared to death of Waddle and Hill. 

 

I do think we have answers on the roster - the TE on many teams is the go-to "move the chains" man and Knox now seems able to catch; Cook and Hines could be very productive as well in the short passing game - but Dorsey and Josh have to figure out how to use them effectively.  So I see a good sized "3 level WR" who can play outside and at the intermediate level, as the bigger need.

Yes, you are. I was trying to get some specific player options to match a response to your diagnosis.

[Dopey]

1 hour ago, BananaB said:

Mike Williams is another inconsistent WR. The thing is, he has more highs than he does lows and Gabe is the opposite. Mike has 5 games under 70 yards to Gabes 10, 5 games under 50 yards to Gabes 9, and 5 games under 40 to Gabes 8…. Mike wasn’t held for under 70 yards in back to back weeks all season where Gabe was held under 50 in back to back games numerous times. At the end of the season he had was held under 60 yards for 6 straight weeks, and he only eclipsed 40 twice over that stretch. To be honest, looking this over this is just another poor comparison. 

I wondered why Davis is being compared to Williams myself. Williams was a top 10 pick and signed a 4 year deal worth just under $20 million. He made almost $13 million his rookie season alone. He was drafted to be a #1 wr. Davis is a mid 4th round pick. He was brought in to supplement our #1 wr. He has made less than $4 million total when his 4 year contract expires. IMO, he’s the definition of a #2 wr. Unless a team uses its slot wr or TE as a #2. 

[Jay_Fixit]

59 minutes ago, Dopey said:

I wondered why Davis is being compared to Williams myself. Williams was a top 10 pick and signed a 4 year deal worth just under $20 million. He made almost $13 million his rookie season alone. He was drafted to be a #1 wr. Davis is a mid 4th round pick. He was brought in to supplement our #1 wr. He has made less than $4 million total when his 4 year contract expires. IMO, he’s the definition of a #2 wr. Unless a team uses its slot wr or TE as a #2. 

None of those things matter. None of them.

 

A #2 WR and all the expectations that go with it has nothing to do with draft position or contract. 
 

Davis could have been undrafted for all that matters. The fact of the matter is he’s just not really good at being a #2 and an upgrade should be considered.

Edited March 30, 2023 by Jay_Fixit

[GoBills808]

2 hours ago, BananaB said:

Mike Williams is another inconsistent WR. The thing is, he has more highs than he does lows and Gabe is the opposite. Mike has 5 games under 70 yards to Gabes 10, 5 games under 50 yards to Gabes 9, and 5 games under 40 to Gabes 8…. Mike wasn’t held for under 70 yards in back to back weeks all season where Gabe was held under 50 in back to back games numerous times. At the end of the season he had was held under 60 yards for 6 straight weeks, and he only eclipsed 40 twice over that stretch. To be honest, looking this over this is just another poor comparison. 

Mike williams also got  a ton more catches on the same number of targets. He's much more reliable. The yardage is mostly imo due to chargers offense not targeting him as deep as Allen does Davis. 

 

Your #2 guy needs to be reliable