The OL: Where it Stands Right Now - Where does it need to go in FA and Draft?

[aristocrat]

Sign mike mcglinchey at right tackle. Guard in draft. 

[ColoradoBills]

4 minutes ago, DCbillsfan said:

If the Bills let Edmunds walk, I could see them signing 2 FA guards and possibly drafting an OT in rounds 4 or 5.  If Edmunds is gone and Morse retires, I could see 2 FA agent guards and draft a Center who can start right away.  Bates and Boettger backup guards/center.

 

Interesting.  You're going with 2 FA and 1 Rookie.  Also, you are the first to put Bates in a backup role.

I was high on Bates, but he didn't perform at RG as well as I wished.  I do think his best position is LG with a backup C role.

 

Your reply along with many others all revolve around what is going to happen with Morse and the future at Center like I suspect.

Beane HAS to see this too.  It starts with my OP Question #1, and everything flows from there.

 

As to Edmunds left to walk.  I think that is going to happen.  I didn't until just recently.

1 minute ago, aristocrat said:

Sign mike mcglinchey at right tackle. Guard in draft. 

 

That would be great, but the money would be the issue I feel.

[Aussie Joe]

Brown definitely did not improve last year…

 

I would move Bates back to LG… but the thing with Bates is that he needs to be the 5th best OL… not 3rd like 2022…

 

Upgrades required at RG and RT… assume one in FA and the other in the draft

( it needs to be an early pick)

[aristocrat]

4 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Interesting.  You're going with 2 FA and 1 Rookie.  Also, you are the first to put Bates in a backup role.

I was high on Bates, but he didn't perform at RG as well as I wished.  I do think his best position is LG with a backup C role.

 

Your reply along with many others all revolve around what is going to happen with Morse and the future at Center like I suspect.

Beane HAS to see this too.  It starts with my OP Question #1, and everything flows from there.

 

As to Edmunds left to walk.  I think that is going to happen.  I didn't until just recently.

 

That would be great, but the money would be the issue I feel.

let edmunds walk there’s your money

[ColoradoBills]

4 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

let edmunds walk there’s your money

 

Would be tight even with Edmunds not signing.  Don't get me wrong I'm for anything to protect and give Josh more time.

It would mean I think that there would be no mid-level FA WR and about a 4th or later WR drafted.

The D would have some plugs versus prime players.

 

That being said, I do firmly believe Josh can make mediocre WRs better and good receivers great, given more time.

It's the hill I'm going to die on this year!

[DCbillsfan]

17 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

As to Edmunds left to walk.  I think that is going to happen.  I didn't until just recently.

 

I felt the same way but allowing Edmunds to walk affords Beane some flexibility to address some offensive issues in free agency.  I think Edmunds is a good player but not worth $100M contract.

[ColoradoBills]

13 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

Brown definitely did not improve last year…

 

I would move Bates back to LG… but the thing with Bates is that he needs to be the 5th best OL… not 3rd like 2022…

 

Upgrades required at RG and RT… assume one in FA and the other in the draft

( it needs to be an early pick)

 

I probably should not have said that in my OP.  I do believe Brown improved on run blocking.  That I am sure of.

IF, and I know it's a debatable IF, he ends up starting at RT the only thing I feel will work is the other 4 OL are strong and that

would include an extremely strong RG.  I think they could scheme around Brown at RT and give him another year to see what he could be.

[DCbillsfan]

19 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Would be tight even with Edmunds not signing.  Don't get me wrong I'm for anything to protect and give Josh more time.

It would mean I think that there would be no mid-level FA WR and about a 4th or later WR drafted.

The D would have some plugs versus prime players.

 

That being said, I do firmly believe Josh can make mediocre WRs better and good receivers great, given more time.

It's the hill I'm going to die on this year!

Where do you see the early picks rounds 1 - 3?  If Edmunds leaves, they would need to get his replacement.  I think WR could still be in play on Day 2.  Perhaps LB, WR, DE, S, DT, and RB assuming they get 2 starting Oline guys in FA.

Edited February 19, 2023 by DCbillsfan

[ColoradoBills]

1 minute ago, DCbillsfan said:

Where do you see the early picks rounds 1 - 3?

 

I started this thread to try to get my head around that question.  There are so many moving parts.

If Edmunds leaves, they have to replace him with a 3rd round minimum I would think.

MLB is too important in whatever D McDermott runs to go later.

 

A 1st or 2nd has to go to something on the OL.  Be it G, C or T.  That's already a big ask for the draft to fall that way.

The 3rd top 3 could go in a lot of different ways depending on FA.  I just see a WR in the top 3 tough, but I sure would like it.

 

It's going to be tough for Beane, but I'm in on a strong OL, replacing Edmunds and let the rest of the chips fall where they may.

 

[LyndonvilleBill]

IMO, I still think it's too early to give up on Brown. Replace him next year if need be.

 

Personally, I'd like at least 1 FA G (Risner maybe. On a reasonable contract. Can play both LG/RG if needed) to pair with Brown. Don't want a rookie next to Brown. At this point I think Morse will play this season (unless cut). If Morse isn't back, Id rather put a rookie in at C sandwiched between 2 vets. Move Bates back to LG Where he played well. Re-sign Ike as a backup. Draft a C (maybe Tippmann) and a G (Vorhees). Could probably also sign Hart, Quessenberry and dare I say Saffold as backups if needed.

 

[MrEpsYtown]

On tackles, I don’t think they will replace Brown. I really don’t. I think they believe in him and I think they will continue to be patient. They see that enormous upside and I really don’t believe there is a massive cost effective upgrade out there. 
 

On Mike McGlinchey, just like Edmunds and Brown are the whipping boys here, he is the whipping boy for Niners fans. He is exhibit A why you don’t draft a RT player in the top ten, or the first round at all. He finally had a good year on his 5th year option. Sure on the surface and such it seems like he is so much better than Brown. He isn’t. I don’t really care what pff says. SF had to chip and use a tight end to his side all the time. He’s basically Spencer Brown in a year. A marginal upgrade who will not be worth the cost. I just think with limited cap, they aren’t going to go down this road. 
 

I see them maybe upgrading at the swing tackle. Perhaps a cheap vet like Josh Wells, Reilly Reiff, Kelvin Beachum or a Billy Turner. They aren’t going to pursue Orlando Brown and there is a marginal chance they go after Jawaan Taylor. 

I highly doubt they go RT early in the draft. Now if a guy like Broderick Jones falls to 27, I would not be opposed to grabbing him because I think the upside is tremendous. Does that mean he starts on the right side or does Dion move inside? I have no idea. What I do think I know is that they will not draft a RT in the first round of the draft and they will not commit big FA money to the position. 

[TheBeaneBandit]

1 hour ago, aristocrat said:

Sign mike mcglinchey at right tackle. Guard in draft. 

He's not even an upgrade to Brown. Sign a guard AND draft a guard, unless one of the top LT's drop to or near 27.

[MrEpsYtown]

2 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

What's your thought of Wylie as an FA for RT?

I actually think Wylie does fit and he is way more interesting than Mike McGlinchey. I think he is probably too expensive and a little risky. Mahomes has a way of making guys like this look good. Wylie has some strong athletic traits with a high RAS coming out. In a perfect world you sign him to play RG next to Brown, but I think Wylie is going to want to get paid a big RT salary. 

[ColoradoBills]

31 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

On tackles, I don’t think they will replace Brown. I really don’t. I think they believe in him and I think they will continue to be patient. They see that enormous upside and I really don’t believe there is a massive cost effective upgrade out there. 
 

On Mike McGlinchey, just like Edmunds and Brown are the whipping boys here, he is the whipping boy for Niners fans. He is exhibit A why you don’t draft a RT player in the top ten, or the first round at all. He finally had a good year on his 5th year option. Sure on the surface and such it seems like he is so much better than Brown. He isn’t. I don’t really care what pff says. SF had to chip and use a tight end to his side all the time. He’s basically Spencer Brown in a year. A marginal upgrade who will not be worth the cost. I just think with limited cap, they aren’t going to go down this road. 
 

I see them maybe upgrading at the swing tackle. Perhaps a cheap vet like Josh Wells, Reilly Reiff, Kelvin Beachum or a Billy Turner. They aren’t going to pursue Orlando Brown and there is a marginal chance they go after Jawaan Taylor. 

I highly doubt they go RT early in the draft. Now if a guy like Broderick Jones falls to 27, I would not be opposed to grabbing him because I think the upside is tremendous. Does that mean he starts on the right side or does Dion move inside? I have no idea. What I do think I know is that they will not draft a RT in the first round of the draft and they will not commit big FA money to the position. 

 

I agree that Spencer Brown is the most likely man at RT this season.  I do believe he has a chance to improve but I sure would like to see

a strong RG next to him.  Which brings me to this question.  I'm not a big college fan (I passively watch it) but in my hunting of a strong

rookie RG I have watch some film and read that Torrence could be the real deal at RG.  Do you think he is worth pursuing?

 

9 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I actually think Wylie does fit and he is way more interesting than Mike McGlinchey. I think he is probably too expensive and a little risky. Mahomes has a way of making guys like this look good. Wylie has some strong athletic traits with a high RAS coming out. In a perfect world you sign him to play RG next to Brown, but I think Wylie is going to want to get paid a big RT salary. 

 

I will admit when I saw that Spotrac had Wylie at $5M per year I thought it would be a no-brainer.

A lot of KC fans and fans in general think he is better at RG than RT so I was thinking he could be something to look into.

You may be right, and he could go for a lot more.  Something I'll keep an eye on.

Edited February 19, 2023 by ColoradoBills

[3rdand12]

Good Thread  Colorado !

 I have been getting an education reading this and will continue. Thanks also for maintaining it so well

[MrEpsYtown]

19 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I agree that Spencer Brown is the most likely man at RT this season.  I do believe he has a chance to improve but I sure would like to see

a strong RG next to him.  Which brings me to this question.  I'm not a big college fan (I passively watch it) but in my hunting of a strong

rookie RG I have watch some film and read that Torrence could be the real deal at RG.  Do you think he is worth pursuing?

 

 

I will admit when I saw that Spotrac had Wylie at $5M per year I thought it would be a no-brainer.

A lot of KC fans and fans in general think he is better at RG than RT so I was thinking he could be something to look into.

You may be right, and he could go for a lot more.  Something I'll keep an eye on.

Torrence is a tough one for me. He just mashes people in the run game and he is really good in pass pro. He looks on the surface to be a gap scheme power type player, but honestly he looks really good in zone situations on film. He is very good in pass pro, giving up zero sacks in 46 college starts. That’s pretty astounding. Now when you take into account the first part of his career was at Louisiana before transferring to Florida, and that he was blocking for a very mobile guy at Florida, maybe that number isn’t as impressive. However zero sacks is zero sacks. I think he will struggle with counter pass rush moves in the NFL. 
 

He’s huge and long and looks to have good feet. He’s a guard only prospect so there is no versatility there. And that is the type of prospect the Bills have yet to show interest in as a first round pick. That includes Beane’s time here and in Carolina. The entire Bills offensive line were LTs in college except for Spencer Brown who was a RT in deference to Trevor Penning. 
 

Torrence to me is a second round pick. That doesn’t mean he won’t go in the first round. We saw guards in Zion Johnson and Kenyon Green go super early last year, and Torrence is better than those guys. I do think he will be, at the very least a serviceable guard with the potential to be dominant. Personally, I would really dislike the pick at 27, but you could do a lot worse with a First round pick. 

[Success]

2 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Would be tight even with Edmunds not signing.  Don't get me wrong I'm for anything to protect and give Josh more time.

It would mean I think that there would be no mid-level FA WR and about a 4th or later WR drafted.

The D would have some plugs versus prime players.

 

That being said, I do firmly believe Josh can make mediocre WRs better and good receivers great, given more time.

It's the hill I'm going to die on this year!

 

We shouldn't re-invent the wheel.  The bolded was the Patriots' blueprint for almost 2 decades. They made one exception, when they got Moss - and that notably did not yield a title.

 

Ultimately, it's a big part of the reason Brady left - but you can't argue the results for so many years.  Their best receiver in some of those SB years would barely be a #3 on most of the top teams.  But they used that money saved on skill players to build a top 5 line, year in & year out.  

 

Allen can do the same thing Brady did.  I love that we have Diggs, and we'll have him for at least a few more years - but we don't need to make big investments in skill players. Just give Allen time in the pocket.

 

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Torrence is a tough one for me. He just mashes people in the run game and he is really good in pass pro. He looks on the surface to be a gap scheme power type player, but honestly he looks really good in zone situations on film. He is very good in pass pro, giving up zero sacks in 46 college starts. That’s pretty astounding. Now when you take into account the first part of his career was at Louisiana before transferring to Florida, and that he was blocking for a very mobile guy at Florida, maybe that number isn’t as impressive. However zero sacks is zero sacks. I think he will struggle with counter pass rush moves in the NFL. 
 

He’s huge and long and looks to have good feet. He’s a guard only prospect so there is no versatility there. And that is the type of prospect the Bills have yet to show interest in as a first round pick. That includes Beane’s time here and in Carolina. The entire Bills offensive line were LTs in college except for Spencer Brown who was a RT in deference to Trevor Penning. 
 

Torrence to me is a second round pick. That doesn’t mean he won’t go in the first round. We saw guards in Zion Johnson and Kenyon Green go super early last year, and Torrence is better than those guys. I do think he will be, at the very least a serviceable guard with the potential to be dominant. Personally, I would really dislike the pick at 27, but you could do a lot worse with a First round pick. 

 

Thanks Epsy, you are confirming everything I think about the guy.  RG only and best if he can be had in the 2nd but might not last till then.

 

I guess my thinking is the right side of the OL has been iffy the entire time Josh has been here and I'm looking to put some "rebar in the concrete".

He's a guy I think might be able to do that and be the rock on the right they need.  I'll look to see about a perceived weakness in counter moves.

 

As to Beane and the whole OL concept of tackles and guys that play multiple positions, I'm hoping that could be swayed some this year

by Kromer and others. 

 

Good stuff, thanks again.

[The Jokeman]

3 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

My thoughts go like this:

 

If Bates is the heir apparent C, then he needs to start to train to be that.  He needs to take all the 2nd team C snaps and

should only be considered depth at G going into the season.

 

That leaves 2 G positions to fill.  One in the draft and one in the FA seems proper.

I like the idea of pursuing a player in FA like Andrew Wylie from KC.  He has played both RG, LG and RT for KC and has played

pretty good at all positions.  His "Market Value" on Spotrac is under $5M per year.  If he (or a similar player) can be secured

it takes one G spot out and gives Brown some good camp competition at RT.

 

Then draft a full time Day 1 starter at G.  I would need help with who and what round, but I would be willing to even consider Round 1.

 

Wylie gave up 9 sacks last season. Ja’Waun James was a good RT at one time but been injury prone lately but could be a low cost/veteran to bring in to compete. The one UFA I'd love to sign is G Chris Lindstrom yet he could get tagged by the Falcons. David Andrews has worked under Kromer in the past. 

[MrEpsYtown]

2 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Thanks Epsy, you are confirming everything I think about the guy.  RG only and best if he can be had in the 2nd but might not last till then.

 

I guess my thinking is the right side of the OL has been iffy the entire time Josh has been here and I'm looking to put some "rebar in the concrete".

He's a guy I think might be able to do that and be the rock on the right they need.  I'll look to see about a perceived weakness in counter moves.

 

As to Beane and the whole OL concept of tackles and guys that play multiple positions, I'm hoping that could be swayed some this year

by Kromer and others. 

 

Good stuff, thanks again.

Thank you! Great thread. Heres a nice little breakdown of Torrence’s reps vs Jalen Carter, if you dont want to sit and watch a full game. You kind of see a bit of everything in here, pros and cons, great blocks, some high pad level and losing on counter moves. Pretty much everything we are talking about in this thread with Torrence vs a top level NFL prospect.