Suitable Edmunds Replacements in the draft

[Bulldog]

1 hour ago, RunTheBall said:

We just spent 5 years with a LB who had elite athletic traits but no instincts.

 

Give me the guy who has great instincts and good athleticism. If that’s Campbell then fine.

 

Personally I don’t think that MLB hole is as deep as everyone thinks. McD is changing the D and the responsibilities of the Mike can be adjusted. If there is a potential great OT or WR on the board I’d take that before LB in the first.

This! Concentrate on further strengthening our offense - draft the best O-lineman & WR's available with our early round picks. Then use later rounds to fortify the defense. Work on "coaching up" our defenders. Given the state of current NFL rules - which too often (in my opinion) minimize the effectiveness of even the best of defensive players - I Would rather have the bulk of our elite talent on the offensive side of the ball. Nothing against top notch defenders - but the NFL rules now seem to stack the deck against any player on the defensive side of the line of scrimmage. 

[nosejob]

13 hours ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

I agree for the most part… Campbell 3 Cone was impressive 6.7, which makes up for the 4.65 40….

 

But 1 thing you can’t deny is Sanders ability to get to the QB.  It’s a toss up. You kind of know what you’re getting with Campbell where as with Sanders he seem like his got big upside, but that’s always a gamble.

 

Also I’d like to know just exactly how much is Luke keuchly teaching Campbell? Could he be doing classroom instruction and film type talk of our scheme??? That’s huge, on top of the physical workouts….

That leads me to further believe he's the target.

[nosejob]

13 hours ago, starrymessenger said:

I think Campbell is underappreciated, even though he is highly regarded. I think he's going to be a great pro and have an outstanding career.

....And he oozes McD. He's exactly a guy McD can mold. Hopefully, they'll employ a little more 4-3. I think Rapp will split time with Taron. There could be some combos they could play with.  Bernard/ Spector...  Campbell .... Milano.   Rapp...Campbell...Milano.

 

Campbell ... Milano ... KIngsley Jonathan ( who by the way was or would have been the no.1 overall pick in the CFL), I expect to make the 53,  as a

pass rushing OLB.

 

The point is I'm hoping we are in the position to send LB blitzes from anywhere at will and on almost every down.

 

With a steady rotation of LB blitzes that gives us a 5-2-4 vs. a 4-2-5. There's absolutely no reason we shouldn't be able to play way more man with Poyer and Hyde on the back end. No more base nickel.

Edited March 30, 2023 by nosejob

[John from Riverside]

44 minutes ago, nosejob said:

....And he oozes McD. He's exactly a guy McD can mold. Hopefully, they'll employ a little more 4-3. I think Rapp will split time with Taron. There could be some combos they could play with.  Bernard/ Spector...  Campbell .... Milano.   Rapp...Campbell...Milano.

 

Campbell ... Milano ... KIngsley Jonathan ( who by the way was or would have been the no.1 overall pick in the CFL), I expect to make the 53,  as a

pass rushing OLB.

 

The point is I'm hoping we are in the position to send LB blitzes from anywhere at will and on almost every down.

 

With a steady rotation of LB blitzes that gives us a 5-2-4 vs. a 4-2-5. There's absolutely no reason we shouldn't be able to play way more man with Poyer and Hyde on the back end. No more base nickel.

Pretty sure Kingsley is an end

[nosejob]

53 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Pretty sure Kingsley is an end

Yes but he could be listed as an OLB and used to pass rush. Looked like speed and potential against the Bears.

[wppete]

I’m still baffled with the Tyrell Bernard pick last year. He produces absolute nothing last year. Barley saw him at LB and did nothing in special teams. Another Beane and McDermott failure? 

[starrymessenger]

1 hour ago, wppete said:

I’m still baffled with the Tyrell Bernard pick last year. He produces absolute nothing last year. Barley saw him at LB and did nothing in special teams. Another Beane and McDermott failure? 

So far looks like a core special teamer and backup. That's not worth a third round pick. I guess we will better see what their plan is for him this year. I'm interested to see in his case to what extent intangibles and football IQ can compensate for perhaps marginal size/athleticism. I think Bama's Henry TooToo is a better example of this type of player. Will be interested to see where he's picked. Maybe he's worth a 3rd idk.

[wppete]

17 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

So far looks like a core special teamer and backup. That's not worth a third round pick. I guess we will better see what their plan is for him this year. I'm interested to see in his case to what extent intangibles and football IQ can compensate for perhaps marginal size/athleticism. I think Bama's Henry TooToo is a better example of this type of player. Will be interested to see where he's picked. Maybe he's worth a 3rd idk.

Yeah I agree but he really has t done anything on special teams to stand out. really seems like a bad pick for a 3rd rounder so far. 

[starrymessenger]

Just now, wppete said:

Yeah I agree but he really has t done anything on special teams to stand out. really seems like a bad pick for a 3rd rounder so far. 

Yeah I'm hoping against hope.

[Nephilim17]

9 hours ago, starrymessenger said:

So far looks like a core special teamer and backup. That's not worth a third round pick. I guess we will better see what their plan is for him this year. I'm interested to see in his case to what extent intangibles and football IQ can compensate for perhaps marginal size/athleticism. I think Bama's Henry TooToo is a better example of this type of player. Will be interested to see where he's picked. Maybe he's worth a 3rd idk.

I'm both baffled and disappointed with the Bernard pick but...

 

I checked Milano's scouting report and lo and behold he ran just a 4.67 at 223 lb. 

So — and to be clear I'm not saying this will happen — maybe they're projecting Bernard to be another Milano-style linebacker. That's my only guess. Taking a guy in the third as a backup and special teams player is madness. Let's hope we're all wrong about Bernard and McBeane come out outsmarting us on this one.

[starrymessenger]

Yeah Milano is a guy who is a lot more football player than athlete. And he's a great football player, all pro nuff said. I think I recall McD saying he got from Aranda and Powledge absolutely glowing reports on Bernard's intangibles and football IQ. We all know how McD values those qualities and as you point out the Bills are not above drafting a player who is small and slow. And it's true that some guys are better off sitting out or seeing limited playing time their rookie year as they acclimate to the NFL. I think Andy Reid once said that if PM had not sat out his first year he might not have developed so well. We are going to find out about Bernard this year. It would be great if it worked out. My recollection though is of seeing a tight end putting more and more separation between him and Bernard who was chasing him.

[freddyjj]

Wonder if McD and Beane will trade back early in 2nd  to get more picks then try and get Campbell and Sanders.   This place would explode!!!

 

but it would allow OBD to have 3 LBs on field at once and do exotic blitzes and use Sanders as a 5th D lineman like McD used Lorax in 2017.  Just a thought.  

Edited March 31, 2023 by freddyjj

[MrEpsYtown]

38 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

Wonder if McD and Beane will trade back early in 2nd  to get more picks then try and get Campbell and Sanders.   This place would explode!!!

 

but it would allow OBD to have 3 LBs on field at once and do exotic blitzes and use Sanders as a 5th D lineman like McD used Lorax in 2017.  Just a thought.  

 

People always want to complain about defense, but this is what Beane knows. We can ignore 25 years of data, or we can use it has a predicator of what the Bills might do. 

 

I go back to this data back to 2008 when Beane became director of football operations (I assume that is when he started to have a say and power in the organization). He worked in the personnel department from 1998 to 2008 and I assume he didn't have a ton of say, but he was in the room. In 2015-2016 he was assistant GM in Carolina. He was still in Carolina for the 2017 draft. Here is how their first-round picks have gone: 

 

Personnel: 

1998: DE

1999: no first-round pick because they signed franchise-tagged DT Sean Gilbert

2000: DB (they go this pick by trading a second-rounder a couple of years earlier. )

2001: LB Dan Morgan

2002: DE Peppers

2003: LT Jordan Gross

2004: DB Chris Gamble

2005: LB Thomas Davis

2006: RB DeAngelo Williams

2007: LB Jon Beason

 

Director of football operations: 

2008: RB Jonathan Stewart, LT (Otah they moved to right)

2009: they don't have a first because of the Otah trade, they draft Edge and Bills message board legend Everette Brown in 2nd. 

2010: they trade down and take QB Jimmy Clausen

2011: QB Cam Newton

2012: LB Luke Kuechly

2013: DT Star Lotulelei

2014: WR Kelvin Benjamin

 

Assistant GM:

2015: LB Shaq Thompson

2016: DT Vernon Butler

2017: RB Christian McCaffrey

2017: DB Tre White (Beane is not in Buffalo for this)

 

Bills GM:

2018: QB1, LB Tremaine Edmunds

2019: DT Ed Oliver

2020: Traded for Diggs (would have been WR if not)

2021: DE Greg Rousseau

2022: DB Kaiir Elam

 

Since 2008, in drafts Beane has been involved in: 

 

LBs: 6

DBs: 4 (all corners)

DE, RB, QB, DT: 3

WR: 2

LT: 1

RT: 1

 

Zero: Interior O-line, tight ends, safeties. 

 

Just to add, people keep complaining about the Bernard pick. Beane has been involved in drafts where a ton of linebackers have been taken both high and in the mid rounds year after year after year. 

 

Edited March 31, 2023 by MrEpsYtown

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

People always want to complain about defense, but this is what Beane knows. We can ignore 25 years of data, or we can use it has a predicator of what the Bills might do. 

 

I go back to this data back to 2008 when Beane became director of football operations (I assume that is when he started to have a say and power in the organization). He worked in the personnel department from 1998 to 2008 and I assume he didn't have a ton of say, but he was in the room. In 2015-2016 he was assistant GM in Carolina. He was still in Carolina for the 2017 draft. Here is how their first-round picks have gone: 

 

Personnel: 

1998: DE

1999: no first-round pick because they signed franchise-tagged DT Sean Gilbert

2000: DB (they go this pick by trading a second-rounder a couple of years earlier. )

2001: LB Dan Morgan

2002: DE Peppers

2003: LT Jordan Gross

2004: DB Chris Gamble

2005: LB Thomas Davis

2006: RB DeAngelo Williams

2007: LB Jon Beason

 

Director of football operations: 

2008: RB Jonathan Stewart, LT (Otah they moved to right)

2009: they don't have a first because of the Otah trade, they draft Edge and Bills message board legend Everette Brown in 2nd. 

2010: they trade down and take QB Jimmy Clausen

2011: QB Cam Newton

2012: LB Luke Kuechly

2013: DT Star Lotulelei

2014: WR Kelvin Benjamin

 

Assistant GM:

2015: LB Shaq Thompson

2016: DT Vernon Butler

2017: RB Christian McCaffrey

2017: DB Tre White (Beane is not in Buffalo for this)

 

Bills GM:

2018: QB1, LB Tremaine Edmunds

2019: DT Ed Oliver

2020: Traded for Diggs (would have been WR if not)

2021: DE Greg Rousseau

2022: DB Kaiir Elam

 

Since 2008, in drafts Beane has been involved in: 

 

LBs: 6

DBs: 4 (all corners)

DE, RB, QB, DT: 3

WR: 2

LT: 1

RT: 1

 

Zero: Interior O-line, tight ends, safeties. 

 

Just to add, people keep complaining about the Bernard pick. Beane has been involved in drafts where a ton of linebackers have been taken both high and in the mid rounds year after year after year. 

 

 

Equally he has spent three day 2 picks on running backs.... coming from a place where they had a history of spending high draft capital on running backs (I know it was more common in the 00s) and then paying them too. 

 

[MrEpsYtown]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Equally he has spent three day 2 picks on running backs.... coming from a place where they had a history of spending high draft capital on running backs (I know it was more common in the 00s) and then paying them too. 

 

 

Tons of mid-round RBs, DL, and LBs. 

[BADOLBILZ]

21 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

People always want to complain about defense, but this is what Beane knows. We can ignore 25 years of data, or we can use it has a predicator of what the Bills might do. 

 

I go back to this data back to 2008 when Beane became director of football operations (I assume that is when he started to have a say and power in the organization). He worked in the personnel department from 1998 to 2008 and I assume he didn't have a ton of say, but he was in the room. In 2015-2016 he was assistant GM in Carolina. He was still in Carolina for the 2017 draft. Here is how their first-round picks have gone: 

 

Personnel: 

1998: DE

1999: no first-round pick because they signed franchise-tagged DT Sean Gilbert

2000: DB (they go this pick by trading a second-rounder a couple of years earlier. )

2001: LB Dan Morgan

2002: DE Peppers

2003: LT Jordan Gross

2004: DB Chris Gamble

2005: LB Thomas Davis

2006: RB DeAngelo Williams

2007: LB Jon Beason

 

Director of football operations: 

2008: RB Jonathan Stewart, LT (Otah they moved to right)

2009: they don't have a first because of the Otah trade, they draft Edge and Bills message board legend Everette Brown in 2nd. 

2010: they trade down and take QB Jimmy Clausen

2011: QB Cam Newton

2012: LB Luke Kuechly

2013: DT Star Lotulelei

2014: WR Kelvin Benjamin

 

Assistant GM:

2015: LB Shaq Thompson

2016: DT Vernon Butler

2017: RB Christian McCaffrey

2017: DB Tre White (Beane is not in Buffalo for this)

 

Bills GM:

2018: QB1, LB Tremaine Edmunds

2019: DT Ed Oliver

2020: Traded for Diggs (would have been WR if not)

2021: DE Greg Rousseau

2022: DB Kaiir Elam

 

Since 2008, in drafts Beane has been involved in: 

 

LBs: 6

DBs: 4 (all corners)

DE, RB, QB, DT: 3

WR: 2

LT: 1

RT: 1

 

Zero: Interior O-line, tight ends, safeties. 

 

Just to add, people keep complaining about the Bernard pick. Beane has been involved in drafts where a ton of linebackers have been taken both high and in the mid rounds year after year after year. 

 

 

 

Thanks for the data.......it's a reality that McDermott and Beane are inclined to draft defense early.    As I've said before, defense is the matchup side of the ball so it always seems like you are needy there.   When you have an elite QB........some teams(Ted Thompson Packers, for instance) just don't worry as much about matching up physically on that side of the ball(even if they should).

 

I gotta say though.......Beane really wasn't actually involved with scouting in Carolina until AFTER he got promoted from DoFO.......which is basically an executive logistics job that really doesn't have much to do with actual football but is a great way to learn what everyone else's jobs are and how to run an organization from an executive standpoint.    He was green as grass as a scout when he came to Buffalo and it showed, IMO.   He was "in personnel" all those early years in Carolina in the same way that Smithers was in "engineering" at the Springfield nuclear plant.  

[GunnerBill]

20 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Thanks for the data.......it's a reality that McDermott and Beane are inclined to draft defense early.    As I've said before, defense is the matchup side of the ball so it always seems like you are needy there.   When you have an elite QB........some teams(Ted Thompson Packers, for instance) just don't worry as much about matching up physically on that side of the ball(even if they should).

 

I gotta say though.......Beane really wasn't actually involved with scouting in Carolina until AFTER he got promoted from DoFO.......which is basically an executive logistics job that really doesn't have much to do with actual football but is a great way to learn what everyone else's jobs are and how to run an organization from an executive standpoint.    He was green as grass as a scout when he came to Buffalo and it showed, IMO.   He was "in personnel" all those early years in Carolina in the same way that Smithers was in "engineering" at the Springfield nuclear plant.  

 

I heard from multiple people close enough to know that Joe Schoen was the senior talent evaluator. Beane was the strategist and team builder but on pure "who are the best guys?" or "how good is this guy?" he would defer to Schoen above his own judgment. I think that was an underrated loss myself. I know that only affects the last draft and while I am sure that Beane has huge respect and admiration for Brian Gaine and Terrance Gray I don't know if I believe he has the same total faith in them he had in Schoen. 

[MJS]

I'm on the Campbell train, myself. I'd take him in the first round no problem.