Tremaine Edmunds will test free agency

[Thurman#1]

12 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

100%. They also continued to draft guys like AJ Klein and used a first round pick on Shaq Thompson. 

 

 

Very true. Of course, back then most teams were not using nickel as their base defense.

 

AJ Klein was a 5th rounder. And he played the third LB spot, next to Davis and Kuechly.

 

And in fairness, they used a first round pick on Shaq Thompson when Davis was 32. See any LBs who are 32 on this Bills team?

[CheshireCT]

No news here really....he didn't get a contract extension and surprise surprise.... he's a free agent....lol.

 

Can't keep everybody unfortunately....here's hoping we've got some young guys waiting in the wings who we just haven't seen yet.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

1 hour ago, CheshireCT said:

No news here really....he didn't get a contract extension and surprise surprise.... he's a free agent....lol.

 

Can't keep everybody unfortunately....here's hoping we've got some young guys waiting in the wings who we just haven't seen yet.

At the same time, the best way to get a raise at work is to tell them you’re leaving. 

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

It doesn't sound like that at all, Hap.

 

"I'm gonna let the process take shape," sounds to you like we've seen the end of his career as a Bill? He's not saying anything like that there. It only means he's not willing to commit to a return as of now. Which only makes sense, even if he'd rather return than not.

 

Sorry to bring back what I now see is an old post, though. It was new to me.

 

It isn't just Edmunds' words. Beane has locked up all of his cornerstones early - Allen, Dawkins, White, Knox, Hyde, Diggs. The only exception I can think of is Milano where we seemed prepared to let him go but he surprisingly gave us a hometown discount at the last second which we happily accepted. So at this point Edmunds appears to be in the same boat as Milano. If he wants to come back for a lower than market value deal of course we'll take it. I don't ever expect a player to accept less than they're worth so I'm about 90% sure he won't be back. Maybe free agency isn't as kind to him as he expects but I think a young team with a lot of cap space and a QB on a rookie deal will be enticed by his athletic traits and give him a big contract.

[CheshireCT]

1 hour ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

At the same time, the best way to get a raise at work is to tell them you’re leaving. 

Maybe they'll do it, but I'd be surprised...the cap situation is what it is. Meanwhile they extended other players before their deals were up.

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

It isn't just Edmunds' words. Beane has locked up all of his cornerstones early - Allen, Dawkins, White, Knox, Hyde, Diggs. The only exception I can think of is Milano where we seemed prepared to let him go but he surprisingly gave us a hometown discount at the last second which we happily accepted. So at this point Edmunds appears to be in the same boat as Milano. If he wants to come back for a lower than market value deal of course we'll take it. I don't ever expect a player to accept less than they're worth so I'm about 90% sure he won't be back. Maybe free agency isn't as kind to him as he expects but I think a young team with a lot of cap space and a QB on a rookie deal will be enticed by his athletic traits and give him a big contract.

This is correct. The same scenario will likely play out for Oliver next year.

 

It’s the way of the NFL. You can probably count on one hand the number of rookies who played out their fifth year without a long term deal that stayed with their team.

 

Even with the Bills. Shaq. Gilmore. Edmunds. 
 

It’s a trend 

[balln]

6 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yeah, did he get abused by Mahomes this year? When we had a bit of a pass rush hurrying him?

 

You know who gets abused by Mahomes's eyes in the middle of the field in zone coverage when he has time to throw? Absolutely everyone. 

 

And he doesn't get driven back all that much. He gets driven back 7 - 10 yards? Fine, name 10 plays where that happened. Should be easy since it happens so often. In the run defense, Milano is the guy given the go-ahead to go forward and freelance a bit at times. They have different roles. Tremaine is the guy who's generally supposed to stay back, fill the hole and get him if he turns the corner if necessary.

 

This decision will be made by money, as the Bills are really tightly strictured right now, but they'll do their best to get him back. This Bills D has shown that they're a ton worse without him than with him.

 

 

 

Yea - he’s not worth a big contract. Not at all. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

On 2/20/2023 at 10:04 AM, SCBills said:

We have the following players:

 

EDGE - Von Miller

DT - Daquan Jones

DT - Ed Oliver 

EDGE - Greg Rousseau

LB - Matt Milano

MLB - ???

CB - Taron Johnson

CB - Tre’Davious White

CB - Kaiir Elam

S - Micah Hyde

S - ???

 

If McDermott can’t figure out how to put forth an adequate defense without needing to invest big money and/or a RD1/RD2 pick, then there is literally no reason for him to remain our HC. 
 

We should honestly move Ed Oliver for late round pick swap/salary dump as well.  Whatever it takes to get his 11M off the books. 
 

We’d be able to sign 2 of the top FA’s on the OL and a WR.   Imagine heading into the Draft with a new interior OL, along with say… OBJ.   Draft a RT in RD1 and another WR in RD2.  Then let McDermott find his MLB in RD3.  Draft a CB/Safety, DT and RB on Day 3 and let’s go.  

That’s how you flip this thing on it’s head and make some waves.  Do you think KC would pay Oliver 11M?  Re-sign Poyer or Edmunds?   Or would they build an elite OL for Mahomes?   FYI… we know the answer, because they already did that. 
 

 

 

If Edmunds comes back, it's a ton of investment into this defense. 

 

Von Miller - $100M contract

Daquan Jones - FA contract

Ed Oliver - 1st Round pick

Greg Rousseau - 1st Round pick

Matt Milano - 2nd contract

Edmunds - 2nd contract

Taron Johnson - 2nd contract

Tre'Davious White - 2nd contract

Kaiir Elam - 1st Round pick

Micah Hyde - Contract Extension w/Bills

 

You're right, scab at LB and Safety and get bye. 

 

We have this guy on WGR now saying the Bills should be going for a run stuffing DLineman or LB in the draft now.........

 

How much more can you give McDermott and his Coaches to work with? 

[purple haze]

On 2/18/2023 at 6:13 PM, Luka said:

 When Milano is out, the defense looks putrid, Edmunds does not impact the defense in the same way. Aside from the tall guy not standing in the middle of the field flat footed, I hardly noticed he was out when he got hurt last year. Klein is better in the run game, that was noticeable. 

Go back and watch those games he missed.  You don’t have to like his play style but they did not look good when he was out.

[SCBills]

6 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

If Edmunds comes back, it's a ton of investment into this defense. 

 

Von Miller - $100M contract

Daquan Jones - FA contract

Ed Oliver - 1st Round pick

Greg Rousseau - 1st Round pick

Matt Milano - 2nd contract

Edmunds - 2nd contract

Taron Johnson - 2nd contract

Tre'Davious White - 2nd contract

Kaiir Elam - 1st Round pick

Micah Hyde - Contract Extension w/Bills

 

You're right, scab at LB and Safety and get bye. 

 

We have this guy on WGR now saying the Bills should be going for a run stuffing DLineman or LB in the draft now.........

 

How much more can you give McDermott and his Coaches to work with? 

People I generally think are good listens, like Joe Marino, simp nonstop for filling holes on Defense with high picks/decently priced FA’s.  
 

I don’t understand what this hold is on so many people, especially when they don’t seem to ever have that same energy in needing to address obvious holes on the OL.   That’s where they are fine with Day 3 picks and/or value FA’s.   
 

He went on and on this morning about “what do we do if we trade Ed Oliver” …. Oh heavens no, what will we do if McDermott doesn’t have his precious high priced/high pick DL rotation!?

 

I feel like “defense wins championships” is just engrained in people… even though it’s no longer true. 
 

Its insane to me that anyone feels 11M is better spent on Ed Oliver than a premier IOL.   Especially when he’s going to walk next year and is inconsistent af with an inability to be a takeover guy.  
 

Tremaine Edmunds or a premier OL?  The answer is easy.  Give me the drop off at LB over Josh Allen ripping apart his UCL again. 
 

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by SCBills

[RyanC883]

On 2/17/2023 at 12:06 PM, Einstein said:

This would be the 5th player from that 2018 draft to be gone.

 

Edmunds - gone

Teller - gone

Phillips - gone

Mccloud - gone

Proehl - gone

 

 

outside of Allen, ouch. (well, Teller good pick, but not retained). 

[Richard Noggin]

Edmunds must be allowed to move on (barring a Milano-esque discount to return) in order for this org to begin to reign in and redistribute its cap from defense to offense. 

 

Gotta give the franchise (QB17) EVERY advantage available. Can't waste any more seasons pretending the Bills have a rookie-deal QB. Time to out-coach your "coverage"/talent on the defensive side of the roster. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

59 minutes ago, SCBills said:

People I generally think are good listens, like Joe Marino, simp nonstop for filling holes on Defense with high picks/decently priced FA’s.  
 

I don’t understand what this hold is on so many people, especially when they don’t seem to ever have that same energy in needing to address obvious holes on the OL.   That’s where they are fine with Day 3 picks and/or value FA’s.   
 

He went on and on this morning about “what do we do if we trade Ed Oliver” …. Oh heavens no, what will we do if McDermott doesn’t have his precious high priced/high pick DL rotation!?

 

I feel like “defense wins championships” is just engrained in people… even though it’s no longer true. 
 

Its insane to me that anyone feels 11M is better spent on Ed Oliver than a premier IOL.   Especially when he’s going to walk next year and is inconsistent af with an inability to be a takeover guy.  
 

Tremaine Edmunds or a premier OL?  The answer is easy.  Give me the drop off at LB over Josh Allen ripping apart his UCL again. 
 

 

I too listen to Marino. 

 

I find his 30-minute shows easier to digest than the 1-hour + free-form podcasts on Cover 1 where Aaron dominates the conversation, talks over everyone, and simps out for the Bills weapons. 

 

With that out of the way, I doubt this make a hole, fill a hole mentality goes all the way back to Ralph's cheapness in the mid-2000-2010, but that's what it feels like. 

 

Not going to re-sign Clements? Cornerback becomes the #1 need on the team. 

 

Jarius Byrd walks in FA, now we're looking at Safety's. 

 

It's a good point you make on Oliver. The Bills have had a rotating band of DTs coming in FA with Star L, Vernon Butler, Jordan Phillips, Tim Settle. They let Harrison Phillips walk in FA, so what has Oliver shown that makes him a much better strategy? He lacks size, there is no getting around that. He has to be a superior one on one pass rusher, and gap penetrator to provide value to this team. He's been okay, but if we're being honest, we're living off hope because of his draft status. He's 4 years in now, and he's been an okay player. He flashes here and there. But if the Bills went out and signed another FA DT, would their defensive statistics drop off a table? 

 

Brett Kollmann on WGR saying Bills need to go DT in Round 1 and come back in Round 2 with a linebacker if Edmunds walks, and Schopp is like wow, these are great points. They talked about how you wouldn't anticipate Diggs declining yet, how Davis wasn't bad, just needed to be more consistent. 

 

I think where I come out on this is the defense feels homegrown to fans and the FO. I think it is tied to the team turning it around in 2017 and two positional groups that have not changed for 5-years. At Safety it's been Hyde and Poyer since they signed as FAs together 5+ years ago in 2017. Likewise, at LB, it's been Edmunds and Milano starting together since 2018. For good measure, White has been a fixture since 2017, Taron Johnson since 2018. So, I think there is this notion that we have to keep the back 7 of this defense together at all costs. And, this is why if Edmunds leaves, we kneejerk to filling that with the best possible replacement we can. It's still McDermott and Frazier continuity. 

 

On offense, Beane's approach has been heavy reliance on Free Agents, and after Morse, cheap free agents rotating in. I think the FO has gotten used to a QB that dodges pressure. The last Offensive Lineman the Bills drafted that would be considered good is Dawkins in 2017. 

 

So overall, I think Beane and this FO stopped trying to add elite talent on offense after Diggs in 2020. He was rebuffed by Antonio Brown, got Diggs on his 3rd try, used a first, saw the offense take off in 2020, and has largely acted like his work there was done. Plaster over the holes on the offensive line, go bargain shopping free agency and the middle rounds of the draft, it's okay if Boettger, Bates, Doyle, Brown take a while to develop, we don't run the ball much anyways, and Allen can get us out of trouble. Dawson Knox is the starting TE, and the Bills have done the bare minimum to add to that group. WRs? Diggs in 2020, back to the bargain bin with Emmanuel Sanders and Jamison Crowder, while as you pointed out, McDermott was getting his rotation on the Defensive Line. 

 

Yes, the defense will get worse without Edmunds and Poyer. But I think this is why being the 2013-2015 Seattle Seahawks is a hard model to copy. It is hard to keep an entire defense together year after year. Guys get old quickly, they get expensive. 

 

The Chiefs have figured this out moving on from Mathieu, trading Fenton, let's see the Bengals approach this offseason - do they pull out all the stops to keep Pratt, Bates, Bell, Tre Flowers (doubtful), Eli Apple (doubtful)? 

 

I think our local media sees itself as an offensive team, but their construction suggests McDermott has considerable sway on the personnel and he sees this team as needing a Top 10 defense to win. 

 

 

 

[Doc Brown]

15 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

It isn't just Edmunds' words. Beane has locked up all of his cornerstones early - Allen, Dawkins, White, Knox, Hyde, Diggs. The only exception I can think of is Milano where we seemed prepared to let him go but he surprisingly gave us a hometown discount at the last second which we happily accepted. So at this point Edmunds appears to be in the same boat as Milano. If he wants to come back for a lower than market value deal of course we'll take it. I don't ever expect a player to accept less than they're worth so I'm about 90% sure he won't be back. Maybe free agency isn't as kind to him as he expects but I think a young team with a lot of cap space and a QB on a rookie deal will be enticed by his athletic traits and give him a big contract.

Or Beane may have tried to lock him up last off-season but Edmunds wanted to bet on himself.  I wouldn't be surprised if Beane gave into Edmunds demands (around 18 million a season) as I still think we as fans have a lower opinion of him than McBeane.

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

They are a defensive oriented group and that’s where the priority lies while the offense gets the scraps… I said as much last year and got lambasted by many fans here all offseason…. Then the offensive deficiencies and lack of investment caught up with them in the Cincy game… along with a defense that continues to not be able to stop ***** despite the incredibly lopsided resources allocated.(Yes, I know they had injuries…. But the unit they had out their that Sunday wasn’t a unit full of scrubs….. they shouldn’t have been THAT BAD…. And yet they are HISTORICALLY bad in every playoff loss the past three years.) 

 

As @SCBills stated, what good is McDermott if he needs top of the line resources for his defense to get blasted every year in the playoffs?… either way, I’ll believe they’ll prioritize the offense over the defense when I see it. McDermott seems to hate using top picks on receivers.  I still suspect they resign Edmunds, hang on to Oliver,  and their first round pick will be a safety. Receiver remains down the totem pole with this group IMO. 

 

 

They gave up a first round pick for diggs
 

They use the second round pick on a running back that’s supposed to be a very good receiver

 

 

[colin]

8 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I too listen to Marino. 

 

I find his 30-minute shows easier to digest than the 1-hour + free-form podcasts on Cover 1 where Aaron dominates the conversation, talks over everyone, and simps out for the Bills weapons. 

 

With that out of the way, I doubt this make a hole, fill a hole mentality goes all the way back to Ralph's cheapness in the mid-2000-2010, but that's what it feels like. 

 

Not going to re-sign Clements? Cornerback becomes the #1 need on the team. 

 

Jarius Byrd walks in FA, now we're looking at Safety's. 

 

It's a good point you make on Oliver. The Bills have had a rotating band of DTs coming in FA with Star L, Vernon Butler, Jordan Phillips, Tim Settle. They let Harrison Phillips walk in FA, so what has Oliver shown that makes him a much better strategy? He lacks size, there is no getting around that. He has to be a superior one on one pass rusher, and gap penetrator to provide value to this team. He's been okay, but if we're being honest, we're living off hope because of his draft status. He's 4 years in now, and he's been an okay player. He flashes here and there. But if the Bills went out and signed another FA DT, would their defensive statistics drop off a table? 

 

Brett Kollmann on WGR saying Bills need to go DT in Round 1 and come back in Round 2 with a linebacker if Edmunds walks, and Schopp is like wow, these are great points. They talked about how you wouldn't anticipate Diggs declining yet, how Davis wasn't bad, just needed to be more consistent. 

 

I think where I come out on this is the defense feels homegrown to fans and the FO. I think it is tied to the team turning it around in 2017 and two positional groups that have not changed for 5-years. At Safety it's been Hyde and Poyer since they signed as FAs together 5+ years ago in 2017. Likewise, at LB, it's been Edmunds and Milano starting together since 2018. For good measure, White has been a fixture since 2017, Taron Johnson since 2018. So, I think there is this notion that we have to keep the back 7 of this defense together at all costs. And, this is why if Edmunds leaves, we kneejerk to filling that with the best possible replacement we can. It's still McDermott and Frazier continuity. 

 

On offense, Beane's approach has been heavy reliance on Free Agents, and after Morse, cheap free agents rotating in. I think the FO has gotten used to a QB that dodges pressure. The last Offensive Lineman the Bills drafted that would be considered good is Dawkins in 2017. 

 

So overall, I think Beane and this FO stopped trying to add elite talent on offense after Diggs in 2020. He was rebuffed by Antonio Brown, got Diggs on his 3rd try, used a first, saw the offense take off in 2020, and has largely acted like his work there was done. Plaster over the holes on the offensive line, go bargain shopping free agency and the middle rounds of the draft, it's okay if Boettger, Bates, Doyle, Brown take a while to develop, we don't run the ball much anyways, and Allen can get us out of trouble. Dawson Knox is the starting TE, and the Bills have done the bare minimum to add to that group. WRs? Diggs in 2020, back to the bargain bin with Emmanuel Sanders and Jamison Crowder, while as you pointed out, McDermott was getting his rotation on the Defensive Line. 

 

Yes, the defense will get worse without Edmunds and Poyer. But I think this is why being the 2013-2015 Seattle Seahawks is a hard model to copy. It is hard to keep an entire defense together year after year. Guys get old quickly, they get expensive. 

 

The Chiefs have figured this out moving on from Mathieu, trading Fenton, let's see the Bengals approach this offseason - do they pull out all the stops to keep Pratt, Bates, Bell, Tre Flowers (doubtful), Eli Apple (doubtful)? 

 

I think our local media sees itself as an offensive team, but their construction suggests McDermott has considerable sway on the personnel and he sees this team as needing a Top 10 defense to win. 

 

 

 

 

IMO we can just play our first and second round picks on D more snaps rather than being 9 deep at a huge cost.

 

oliver at 12mm or whatever vs what that would get us on OL (if we ditch saffold who is awful we have like 18MM plus along w the oliver money, that's two monsters at G, better running and more protection for josh).  the OL would be playing way more snaps than oliver too, and we showed we can run the ball last season, so w a better offensive mix and line, that would keep the d fresher, which would also offset the loss of oliver.

 

 

[Don Otreply]

17 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

If Edmunds comes back, it's a ton of investment into this defense. 

 

Von Miller - $100M contract

Daquan Jones - FA contract

Ed Oliver - 1st Round pick

Greg Rousseau - 1st Round pick

Matt Milano - 2nd contract

Edmunds - 2nd contract

Taron Johnson - 2nd contract

Tre'Davious White - 2nd contract

Kaiir Elam - 1st Round pick

Micah Hyde - Contract Extension w/Bills

 

You're right, scab at LB and Safety and get bye. 

 

We have this guy on WGR now saying the Bills should be going for a run stuffing DLineman or LB in the draft now.........

 

How much more can you give McDermott and his Coaches to work with? 

The thing is they have plenty of talent on the D, we just lack scheme flexibility when needed to counter good HCs & OCs, it’s odd that they don’t appear to accept this as a flaw that they need to address, especially after three consecutive post seasons that have shown this to be so,  oh well…, 

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited February 22, 2023 by Don Otreply

[Straight Hucklebuck]

5 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

They gave up a first round pick for diggs
 

They use the second round pick on a running back that’s supposed to be a very good receiver

 

 

Yes John, and then they stopped.

 

Diggs is an A player.

 

After that it’s been to the clearance rack and Goodwill - Saffold, Van Roten, Feliciano, Daryl Williams,  Quesenberry, Emmanuel Sanders, Jamison Crowder, bringing back Beasley and John Brown. 

 

Sorry Sean you don’t get more resources for your prevent defense. 
 

[Warriorspikes51]

I'd like to keep him.....only if he takes a deal that's a few million per year below market. 
 

We really need to invest all we can into the offense 

[Dopey]

13 hours ago, SCBills said:

People I generally think are good listens, like Joe Marino, simp nonstop for filling holes on Defense with high picks/decently priced FA’s.  
 

I don’t understand what this hold is on so many people, especially when they don’t seem to ever have that same energy in needing to address obvious holes on the OL.   That’s where they are fine with Day 3 picks and/or value FA’s.   
 

He went on and on this morning about “what do we do if we trade Ed Oliver” …. Oh heavens no, what will we do if McDermott doesn’t have his precious high priced/high pick DL rotation!?

 

I feel like “defense wins championships” is just engrained in people… even though it’s no longer true. 
 

Its insane to me that anyone feels 11M is better spent on Ed Oliver than a premier IOL.   Especially when he’s going to walk next year and is inconsistent af with an inability to be a takeover guy.  
 

Tremaine Edmunds or a premier OL?  The answer is easy.  Give me the drop off at LB over Josh Allen ripping apart his UCL again. 
 

 

In 4 of the past 5 super bowls, the loser was held to:

3    points (Rams)

20  points(SF)

9    points(KC)

20 points(Cincy)

The only outlier was this past SB. 
We’re not winning a SB on offense alone.