Quote from Josh highlighting the Bills' flawed thinking...

[Billz4ever]

17 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Unfortunately this response is more than your take.  It's actually the factual truth.  Reid could coach circles around McD and we're starting to see young innovative HC's like Mike Daniels and Taylor do the same.  It's pathetic to think Sean thought the difference in beating KC was to acquire Von.  When in reality it was improving your OL, WR2, Running game, OC etc.  

Let's pretend Beane does all those things this offseason (improves OL, WR2, running game).

 

Do you think we can get there with Dorsey or are we just going to find out again we've got an offense that looks unstoppable at times (mainly beginning of the season) or one that sputtered to a near halt too many times and turned the ball over as well?

Edited February 15, 2023 by Billz4ever

[Motorin']

26 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

In all seriousness, I somewhat agree with Josh and Beane.  I get - and agree - with what you're saying, as far as not wanting to copy the Chiefs, per se, because like you said - we'll always be behind if that's the plan.

 

But I'm interpreting this a little differently.

 

I think it's more of: we need a better O-line; we need better pass catching options; we need better coaching.  That's really what most teams need.  Those are also all areas in which Kansas City is better than Buffalo.

 

That's just my take, anyway.

 

Oh ... one more thing ... not quitting midway through the first quarter of a playoff game would be a nice enhancement, too.

 

Let's see, full commitment to rebuild the Online, better play design to scheme recievers open and make to easy on the QB, utilize the run game to keep the defense honest, more aggressive defense looking to turn the ball over and make quick stops instead of bend don't break mentality...

 

Sign me up. 

[K D]

All we need is a HOF offensive coach. Or someone that has his playbook. Why not hire Bienemy?

[Billz4ever]

8 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

It's true, as evidenced by the million comments and threads already discussing that.

 

This was a thread on Team Building Philosophy that has now been bastardized into yet another Coaching/OL thread.

Those things all go hand-in-hand.

 

Good luck building a team without being strong in those two areas in-particular.  They are fundamental to a good football team and right now, we are not strong for certain in the O-Line dept and many would argue coaching too, but we've already basically been told we are having the same guys running the offense and defense next season.

 

3 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

All we need is a HOF offensive coach. Or someone that has his playbook. Why not hire Bienemy?

 

For the same reason nobody wants him as their HC either.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Billz4ever

[DrDawkinstein]

20 minutes ago, Bob Jones said:

I mean, every team in the league should be copying (or stealing) their offensive schemes and plays if it'll get guys wide open all over the field. 😉

 

Would teams not be trying to do that if the Chiefs didn't exist?

[LABILLBACKER]

11 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

It's true, as evidenced by the million comments and threads already discussing that.

 

This was a thread on Team Building Philosophy that has now been bastardized into yet another Coaching/OL thread.

Well if you copy KC's Team building philosophy,  isn't part of that coaching and OL.  It took great coaches including Andy Reid to realize they had to overhaul their OL in one season.  And they did that.  So McB feel free to "copy & paste".  Feel free to chill out for a year on your defensive obsession.  You might accidentally run into a Lombardi and that's something to clap about. 

[Bob Jones]

11 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Would teams not be trying to do that if the Chiefs didn't exist?

Of course, they're all trying to create schemes & plays that have receivers getting wide open, but how many teams are succeeding in doing that? Can't speak for other teams, cuz I really only closely watch Bills' games, but the Bills sure weren't doing that since the Packers game. However, I did watch all the playoff games, and it was like night and day, watching the Bills offense struggle just to get completions (which were usually closely contested by the defender), while other teams had guys open all over the field. And no, it's not just due to other teams have "superior talent" compared to the Bills.

[Nitro]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Bills' Josh Allen gives props to Chiefs, Patrick Mahomes: 'You gotta find ways to be like them'

https://www.nfl.com/news/bills-josh-allen-gives-props-to-chiefs-mahomes-it-s-a-copycat-league-you-gotta-f

 

 

I've heard this before from Beane and McDermott (and probably others) and now from Allen. We need to be like KC. We need to build the team to beat KC...

 

WRONG

 

Because I guarantee you that KC isnt trying to be like anyone else. They're simply trying to be the best team in the NFL regardless of what anyone else is doing.

 

THAT is what McBeane and Co. should be doing. Stop peeking over the fence and trying to copy another team and just go build the best team in the entire NFL. Go be that team that everyone wants to copy. Because by the time you see what they are doing, make the moves to copy them, and bring it to fruition... they are already 2 more steps ahead that you can't copy.

 

This is such a 2nd place mentality it makes me sick.

I think "be like them" is misunderstood.  They got rid of Hill and replaced him with several cheaper but talented WRs.  Not scheme but how to retool and exploit the flaws of the opponent.  Like the quick passes that made the vaunted pass rush of Philly a non factor.  Build a team what you want it to be and win!

[LABILLBACKER]

30 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

Let's pretend Beane does all those things this offseason (improves OL, WR2, running game).

 

Do you think we can get there with Dorsey or are we just going to find out again we've got an offense that looks unstoppable at times (mainly beginning of the season) or one that sputtered to a near halt too many times and turned the ball over as well?

Great question.  Let's say for the sake of argument McB hits on several offensive picks.  We should get a pretty fast answer as to whether Ken is actually capable of being a Daboll disciple or just a lost Hackett train wreck.  And if it's the latter,  then Josh will immediately demand he's replaced.  Dorsey is only getting 1 more shot to turn this around. 

[DrDawkinstein]

26 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Well if you copy KC's Team building philosophy,  isn't part of that coaching and OL.  It took great coaches including Andy Reid to realize they had to overhaul their OL in one season.  And they did that.  So McB feel free to "copy & paste".  Feel free to chill out for a year on your defensive obsession.  You might accidentally run into a Lombardi and that's something to clap about. 

 

We should have been building the OL regardless if the Chiefs did it or not. That's the whole point. I dont need the Chiefs to tell me to build the OL.

 

By "copying what the Chiefs do" we let them draft Creed Humphrey first because we were busy "copying" them by building our Pass Rush which they did 2 years prior.

 

As long as we stay in "copy the Chiefs" mode, we will always be 1-2 years behind them.

[Billz4ever]

3 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Great question.  Let's say for the sake of argument McB hits on several offensive picks.  We should get a pretty fast answer as to whether Ken is actually capable of being a Daboll disciple or just a lost Hackett train wreck.  And if it's the latter,  then Josh will immediately demand he's replaced.  Dorsey is only getting 1 more shot to turn this around. 

Yeah, there's no way he survives next offseason if Beane juices the offense this offseason and Dorsey lays an egg with it.

[Fleezoid]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Bills' Josh Allen gives props to Chiefs, Patrick Mahomes: 'You gotta find ways to be like them'

https://www.nfl.com/news/bills-josh-allen-gives-props-to-chiefs-mahomes-it-s-a-copycat-league-you-gotta-f

 

 

I've heard this before from Beane and McDermott (and probably others) and now from Allen. We need to be like KC. We need to build the team to beat KC...

 

WRONG

 

Because I guarantee you that KC isnt trying to be like anyone else. They're simply trying to be the best team in the NFL regardless of what anyone else is doing.

 

THAT is what McBeane and Co. should be doing. Stop peeking over the fence and trying to copy another team and just go build the best team in the entire NFL. Go be that team that everyone wants to copy. Because by the time you see what they are doing, make the moves to copy them, and bring it to fruition... they are already 2 more steps ahead that you can't copy.

 

This is such a 2nd place mentality it makes me sick.

 

I've been thinking this exact same thing the last week or so. Quit trying to build a team to beat one team. That part has worked for the most part. Problem is, they end up tripping over themselves against other teams. Instead, build a team that every other team has to beat. 

 

And....it's very difficult to "be like them" because they don't have the same pieces. 

[Billz4ever]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

We should have been building the OL regardless if the Chiefs did it or not. That's the whole point. I dont need the Chiefs to tell me to build the OL.

 

By "copying what the Chiefs do" we let them draft Creed Humphrey first because we were busy "copying" them by building our Pass Rush which they did 2 years prior.

 

As long as we stay in "copy the Chiefs" mode, we will always be 1-2 years behind them.

You're right, we shouldn't always be chasing the Chiefs and doing exactly what they do, but again, I don't really think that's what Josh was saying.  I think he was more so using them as an example of how you build a championship caliber team and based on what Josh was saying, you could easily substitute the Eagles in there...another good example of a team that's strong in the areas you absolutely must be in order to be successful in this league.

 

 

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Being like them (Super Bowl winners) is not a bad thing. 
 

Being able to beat them is not a bad thing. It is also different from being like them.

 

All Allen said was he wants to consistently be in the AFCCG and Super Bowl… like them. 
 

Nothing to see here. 

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Bills' Josh Allen gives props to Chiefs, Patrick Mahomes: 'You gotta find ways to be like them'

https://www.nfl.com/news/bills-josh-allen-gives-props-to-chiefs-mahomes-it-s-a-copycat-league-you-gotta-f

 

 

I've heard this before from Beane and McDermott (and probably others) and now from Allen. We need to be like KC. We need to build the team to beat KC...

 

WRONG

 

Because I guarantee you that KC isnt trying to be like anyone else. They're simply trying to be the best team in the NFL regardless of what anyone else is doing.

 

THAT is what McBeane and Co. should be doing. Stop peeking over the fence and trying to copy another team and just go build the best team in the entire NFL. Go be that team that everyone wants to copy. Because by the time you see what they are doing, make the moves to copy them, and bring it to fruition... they are already 2 more steps ahead that you can't copy.

 

This is such a 2nd place mentality it makes me sick.

Not what he means. By “ be like them” he’s talking about being in the AFCC, winning Super Bowls etc. you don’t need to look like KC, you just need to find a way to be where they are. Whatever that way might be. 

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, Billz4ever said:

You're right, we shouldn't always be chasing the Chiefs and doing exactly what they do, but again, I don't really think that's what Josh was saying.  I think he was more so using them as an example of how you build a championship caliber team and based on what Josh was saying, you could easily substitute the Eagles in there...another good example of a team that's strong in the areas you absolutely must be in order to be successful in this league.

 

 

 

I'm sure that Josh was just giving benign "QB speak" when he said that, I agree. Except I've been hearing this same thing from our FO for too long, and their actions show they are staying a step behind instead of getting out in front of the matter.

 

Building a championship team should be done in a vacuum, regardless of what other teams may or may not be doing. I dont need to see other teams to know to shore up the trenches, get guys open, and score points.

Just now, Boatdrinks said:

Not what he means. By “ be like them” he’s talking about being in the AFCC, winning Super Bowls etc. you don’t need to look like KC, you just need to find a way to be where they are. Whatever that way might be. 

 

Like I said, maybe not exactly what Josh means here. But it's been too common a theme in the FO.

[Boatdrinks]

50 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

Let's pretend Beane does all those things this offseason (improves OL, WR2, running game).

 

Do you think we can get there with Dorsey or are we just going to find out again we've got an offense that looks unstoppable at times (mainly beginning of the season) or one that sputtered to a near halt too many times and turned the ball over as well?

Maybe, maybe not. We’re going to find out. What will NOT happen is Andy Reid somehow becomes the HC of the Bills for the 2023 season. It seems like that’s what you want ( and who wouldn’t ?) but it’s not happening so what exactly would YOU like to see happen as far as the Bills are concerned? 

[Billz4ever]

6 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I'm sure that Josh was just giving benign "QB speak" when he said that, I agree. Except I've been hearing this same thing from our FO for too long, and their actions show they are staying a step behind instead of getting out in front of the matter.

 

Building a championship team should be done in a vacuum, regardless of what other teams may or may not be doing. I dont need to see other teams to know to shore up the trenches, get guys open, and score points.

 

Like I said, maybe not exactly what Josh means here. But it's been too common a theme in the FO.

 

I agree, they could stop referring to any one team and just do what basically all the elite teams in the league today have in common.

 

Shouldn't take calling out any specific team to do that.  They may just choose to do it because the Chiefs in particular are the ones always standing in our way and according to Beane, Cincy is now as well and that's true.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Billz4ever

[MJS]

Really? Because the Chiefs copied plays from the Bills and used them in the superbowl. The Chiefs are absolutely looking to other good teams to see what they can learn and how they can compete.

[zow2]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Bills' Josh Allen gives props to Chiefs, Patrick Mahomes: 'You gotta find ways to be like them'

https://www.nfl.com/news/bills-josh-allen-gives-props-to-chiefs-mahomes-it-s-a-copycat-league-you-gotta-f

 

 

I've heard this before from Beane and McDermott (and probably others) and now from Allen. We need to be like KC. We need to build the team to beat KC...

 

WRONG

 

Because I guarantee you that KC isnt trying to be like anyone else. They're simply trying to be the best team in the NFL regardless of what anyone else is doing.

 

THAT is what McBeane and Co. should be doing. Stop peeking over the fence and trying to copy another team and just go build the best team in the entire NFL. Go be that team that everyone wants to copy. Because by the time you see what they are doing, make the moves to copy them, and bring it to fruition... they are already 2 more steps ahead that you can't copy.

 

This is such a 2nd place mentality it makes me sick.

 

 

Where Beane went wrong is thinking one man, a "closer" on defense would make the difference.  That was assuming the rest of the D could stop the good teams out there.  No one is stopping Mahomes, Burrow, Hurts, etc..  What you have to do is slow them down just enough for your offense to outscore them.  Now we have a 34 years old edge rusher, with a bad knee, who is paid a gazillion dollars and eating up the cap.