The pic that ruined my morning. Starting to have similar feelings for Mahomes as I did for Brady

[JerseyBills]

4 hours ago, FireChans said:

Wish our guy also didn’t throw the ball into a linebackers chest occasionally. 

Maybe if he had even a decent amount of protection, a consistent run game and these great schemes that doesn't need him to be superman almost every play he'd cut down tremendously on turnovers

Edited February 13, 2023 by JerseyBills

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 hours ago, arcane said:

I don't hate Pat. I just want 1.

I do, the prancing rat Kermit 

[colin]

mahomes is obviously a great qb, but he didn't do jack yesterday, cmon!

 

180ish yards, netting like sub 6 per pass?  KC ran their way to victory.

 

qb is the most important position obv, and we have a guy who is gonna go down as the best ever, but how do hard core football fans come across as hero worshiping cheerleaders about the qb when you can watch the game and look at the box score and see it wasn't him who decided the game?

 

 

[Mango]

8 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

 

To be fair to Big Turk, the post says Josh FEELS he needs to make the big play rather than HAS to make the big play. I think they're saying the same thing as you, but perhaps with a different reason behind it. Is it because Josh doesn't trust the O Line so thinks he has to go with his first read rather than read the field? Or is it because he has basic issues reading the field, no matter the protection, which impacts his game.

 

One would be fixed with an improved O Line. The other will not, though eradicate that excuse.

 

Given that Josh has had issues with zone defenses since entering the NFL, and was near the bottom of the league this year I would be tempted to guess it is the he has some issues understanding where to go with the ball. 

 

https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/josh-allen/

 

6 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I think Josh's biggest problem is his biggest asset which is the ability to make the "hero ball" play.  He's so confident in that ability I think it causes him to believe he can do almost the impossible so he holds onto the ball too long and take too many hits and pass up the easy play or short gain to move the chains or get some positive yardage.  With most other QB's, the thought of attempting to make some sort of out of this world play doesn't even go through their minds.  They just instinctively dump it off or take the sure thing.  The first couple games of the season he was doing the little things but he regressed during the season and the coaches never settled him back into it or reined in those plays.  

 

The Bills problems are the talent level of the players that surround Allen and if you put Mahomes (or Burrow or any other top QB) on the Bills offense the result isn't going to be better,  It would probably be worse.  You take the starting 10 of the offense excluding the QB position of the Bills, Chiefs, and Bengals and choose the best starter at each of the 10 other positions and how many Bills do you pick?  Maybe Diggs.  The 3 of the other 10 Chase, Kelsey, Higgins.  How about the offensive line and the RB position?      

 

 

I totally agree. I think this is where it starts. His freak athleticism helps both create a lot of opportunities and mask deficiency. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Mango

[C.Biscuit97]

5 minutes ago, colin said:

mahomes is obviously a great qb, but he didn't do jack yesterday, cmon!

 

180ish yards, netting like sub 6 per pass?  KC ran their way to victory.

 

qb is the most important position obv, and we have a guy who is gonna go down as the best ever, but how do hard core football fans come across as hero worshiping cheerleaders about the qb when you can watch the game and look at the box score and see it wasn't him who decided the game?

 

 

You don’t know ball bro!!! Why was KC’s run game effective? Maybe because they were scared to load up in the box against the 2 time MVP. 
 

side note, it is amazing how good Mahomes was this year because besides an average at best MVS, they have zero speed.

[UKBillFan]

13 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Given that Josh has had issues with zone defenses since entering the NFL, and was near the bottom of the league this year I would be tempted to guess it is the he has some issues understanding where to go with the ball. 

 

https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/josh-allen/

 

 

 

I totally agree. I think this is where it starts. His freak athleticism helps both create a lot of opportunities and mask deficiency. 

 

From the link, the biggest concern for me is the clean pocket accuracy rating - only 19th? Will an improved O Line, which would equal cleaner pockets, help as much as we think?

 

As you say, Zone is very low compared to Man as well. Question is how that can be improved.

Edited February 13, 2023 by UKBillFan

[Mango]

8 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Maybe if he had even a decent amount of protection, a consistent run game and these great schemes that doesn't need him to be superman almost every play he'd cut down tremendously on turnovers

 

Plays like this happen every game if you watch the all-22. Dorsey needs to be better. The OL needs to be better. The WR needs to be better. But so does Allen. 

When we watch this live we think, "Great throw, great catch, I wish our guys could get as open as KC" because the broadcast tape stinks. But these throws happen all the time every week. Amazing play. But we talk about Dawkins and the throw and catch when Allen is 9 yards deep into the pocket and their is an easy TD to his right, making the whole thing tough on Dawkins and Davis. 

https://imgur.com/a/PG2vZc7

[Mango]

9 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

 

From the link, the biggest concern for me is the clean pocket accuracy rating - only 19th? Will an improved O Line, which would equal cleaner pockets, help as much as we think?

 

As you say, Zone is very low compared to Man as well. Question is how that can be improved.

 

Allen has changed a lot of things about his game. We have to have faith this is one of them. 

There was that spoof QB room interview early in the season. One of the topics was "How much film you watch?". The entire interview was sarcasm and on that topic they talked about "all we do is watch film". Contextually I thought that that was super weird. 

It is a total tinfoil hat thought that I am not married too. But it got me thinking that I would actually like to know how much film Allen watched compared to his peers. 

TL:DR I would start with more film. 

[Ga boy]

40 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I respect the greatness that is Mahomes.  I don't harbor any hostility because he has gotten the job done.  Where I get annoyed is when people want to annoit Burrow over Allen when Burrow has not won anything yet, just like Allen.  

 

Put Allen on Cincy or KC and he shatters the NFL total yards record by at least 500 yards.  

 

Allen is without question the 2nd best QB in the NFL, he can do things no one else can do, even over Mahomes (more so with his legs as they can both do everything each other can with their arms).  But Allen is saddled with a terrible OL, no one outside Diggs to rely on, and most importantly an OC who was clueless in so many areas.  Just watching both the Eagles and Chiefs this post season, its stunning how much more creativity their offensive play calling has.  Its stunning how much more significantly their offenses utilize the players strengths on their respective offenses.  It's stunning how easy it is for them to scheme guys open.  

 

I have never been a fire them guy...I like continuity unless the person is clearly not the right person for the job.  Frazier has proven that already, I want to move on from him.  Dorsey has only been an OC one year, so he has plenty of room to grow...BUT...WHY GAMBLE ALLEN AND DIGGS PRIME YEARS on an inexperienced OC who struggled with all the things above and showed really bad situational awareness as well in how he called games?  

 

Dorsey may go on to be a great OC, maybe a great HC one day...but he is NOT there yet.  This is a Super Bowl ready team, it should be in the hands of someone who has already learned on the job and has the PROVEN playbook to take the offense to the next level. 

I bet there are 20 something head coaches and OCs that could do better with JA17, even with this talent level on offense.  It’s too bad that Josh has endorsed Dorsey, and our HC will not interfere.  Other coaches would’ve used Cook and Hines in successful schemes, and JA17 would be told to throw quicker to shorter routes.  Maybe because of friendship, I don’t think Dorsey will do that.  Josh shouldn’t be given the freedom he has.  Both need to learn from the GOAT.  Hopefully, both will be better next year.

[colin]

39 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You don’t know ball bro!!! Why was KC’s run game effective? Maybe because they were scared to load up in the box against the 2 time MVP. 
 

side note, it is amazing how good Mahomes was this year because besides an average at best MVS, they have zero speed.

 

whatever, kc's d scored 7 and they had 7 set up on a silver platter from a huge return.  philly wanted to remove the passing attack as much as possible and did decently w that, but had no answer to the free yards up the gut in the second half.

 

mahomes was fine, but he wasn't the reason they won.  key mistakes by philly leading to 14 points and the OL got them the W.

[LABILLBACKER]

56 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

I do, the prancing rat Kermit 

I didn't realize how much he sounds like Kermit until last night. Perfect comparison.  The rat hair is obvious. 

[cle23]

5 hours ago, McBean said:

An absolute perfect storm for him.

 

A GM who builds around him and a HC  who’s one of the best play callers of all time.

 

You put Patrick Mahomes in Buffalo for the next 5 years under this staff and talent, he wouldn’t win a ring.

 

You put Josh Allen in KC for the next 5 years, he’d win minimum 2 as well.

 

I’ll take Josh Allen 7 days a week, twice on Sunday.

 

Holy crap dude, they are both good, don't need to try to overcompensate here.    Your previous OC got hired as a HC and went on to win CotY in year 1, so don't act like Allen doesn't/didn't have good coaches.  Mahomes has been top tier the second he stepped on an NFL field.  Allen is top tier, but he also has been much more up and down that Mahomes.  Coaching and play calling can absolutely have some to do with that, but the player has tons to do with that.  

 

Plus, Mahomes has 2 rings.  In 5 years.  He's better.

[RichRiderBills]

6 hours ago, FireChans said:

He played near perfect. Completely mistake free.

 

Folks keep saying “he didn’t do anything Josh can’t do” which is true. But he also didn’t do things that Josh does a lot, like make boneheaded decisions and throws.

 

He had like 89 yards passing in the first half , far from perfect. He had a couple throws nearly picked, including that ill advised shovel pass. 

 

Let's also not forget it still took a huge fumble return AND a long PR to win. 

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by RichRiderBills

[blacklabel]

6 hours ago, FireChans said:

He played near perfect. Completely mistake free.

 

Folks keep saying “he didn’t do anything Josh can’t do” which is true. But he also didn’t do things that Josh does a lot, like make boneheaded decisions and throws.

 

He got lucky early when that ugly shovel pass he tried as he was going to the ground was nearly picked. 

[Ramza86]

Yeah its no fun having to deal with another GOAT.

 

But if you told me 6 years ago wed have a QB with talent to rival the top QBs in the league for a potential longtime...id kiss you in the mouth.

[BillsFan130]

6 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

He did but it was the gameplan and OL that was the real MVP last night. KC had tons of easy completions,  that staff did a great job setting him up for success.  Wish our guy had the same luxury 🙄

Ya exactly it kind of goes hand in hand.

 

Mahomes doesn’t make bonehead mistakes because everything is scripted pretty easy for him.

 

Everything isn’t easily scripted to Josh , so he has to “try to do more” which results in more mistakes. Goes hand in hand

[JerseyBills]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

 

Plays like this happen every game if you watch the all-22. Dorsey needs to be better. The OL needs to be better. The WR needs to be better. But so does Allen. 

When we watch this live we think, "Great throw, great catch, I wish our guys could get as open as KC" because the broadcast tape stinks. But these throws happen all the time every week. Amazing play. But we talk about Dawkins and the throw and catch when Allen is 9 yards deep into the pocket and their is an easy TD to his right, making the whole thing tough on Dawkins and Davis. 

https://imgur.com/a/PG2vZc7

Respect 

Should of hit Mckenzie or whoever that was in the flat though

[Mango]

8 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Respect 

Should of hit Mckenzie or whoever that was in the flat though

Shakir. 
 

It’s a great throw. Great catch. But hard throw and hard catch. You can’t rely on those to get you through every drive. 

[78thealltimegreat]

3 hours ago, Bruffalo said:

That would be a steal.  He's worth more than the Watson trade. 

Exactly they want two ones for Lamar imagine what Josh would fetch on the open market a franchise qb at 26 with a very team friendly deal compared to others that are about to sign a deal 

[Rebel101]

6 hours ago, FireChans said:

He played near perfect. Completely mistake free.

 

Folks keep saying “he didn’t do anything Josh can’t do” which is true. But he also didn’t do things that Josh does a lot, like make boneheaded decisions and throws.

Allen felt the pressure I believe to keep Diggs happy & the offense alive with horrible scheme & design. He needs a more quick play design n then let the play develop if possible. We our allowing defenses to expose our OLine when our play design is all running 20 yards downfield on 3rd n 5.