Can you imagine being Allen last night?

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, whorlnut said:

I can’t even imagine what was going through our star qbs head last night while he was watching that game. He saw 2 dominant OL’s completely handle the other team’s defensive front and give their qbs the time they needed to do their jobs. Allen is a team first guy and would NEVER throw his guys under the bus, but I can’t imagine for one second he isn’t envious of the Mahomes and hurts.

 

This is why Beane has no choice this off-season other than to overhaul the wall in front of Allen. His defensive heavy offseasons haven’t been the answer in the playoffs. This is an offense first league and good offensive lines can negate a good to great defensive line. 

I don't know about Allen but I was jealous of BOTH teams O lines.  That the Bills have not worked aggressively to shore up this unit is a miss of epic proportions.  They have the key piece place - an elite, once in a generation talent at QB. 

 

At first continuously pouring money and draft picks into the defensive line while allowing the O line to languish was a RISK.  Then it turned into a MISTAKE when it didn't work.  If it continues it will be an example of FOOTBALL MALPRACTICE.

 

 

 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

I feel like "no sacks" was more on both QBs being very mobile and good at escaping pressure than on the OLs. I saw plenty of times the QBs were scrambling and being moved around and out of the pocket. Mahomes wasn't comfortable in a clean pocket from what I saw.

 

That being said, yes, both teams have better OLs than the Bills and we need to address it. Still chaps my ass every time I see Creed getting fired up and making plays for the Chiefs.

[Big Turk]

30 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

😆 You’ve really got it in for Josh. 

 

He is just mad looking at the 2023 Futures NFL MVP Odds where Allen has a massive lead on Mahomes and everyone else.

 

Bills boards: Allen is a massive problem!! He isn't good enough! He turns the ball over way way too much!  He is a liability!  Wah! Wah! Wah!  

 

Vegas:  NFL MVP Favorite by a landslide.

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Big Turk

[SCBills]

Last night Super Bowl should solidify for anyone, our FO included, that Offense wins Championships.  
 

You couldn’t have told me who had an average defense and who had an elite defense last night.  They both looked the same.  
 

Eagles invested more than us even, in that Defense .. and it didn’t matter when they played an elite offense.  
 

You need an average defense with some playmakers.. which we have with Von, Milano and hopefully Tre/Hyde. 
 

Yet we’ll justify re-signing Edmunds and keeping Oliver around … 24M in cap allocated to excess Defensive talent that doesn’t protect or help our QB.  
 

Edited February 13, 2023 by SCBills

[Billz4ever]

34 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Their defense didn't force that, Hurts simply dropped the ball untouched. Let's not pretend they did something other than being in the right position to pick up an easy fumble with nobody but 3 Chief players around it.

 

Funnily enough Mahomes had a very similar play against the Bengals.

Yep, as soon as it happened it reminded me of the Mahomes fumble against Cincy.  Only difference was there were Chiefs around to prevent them from advancing it.

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Favre was a 3 time NFL MVP in 3 straight years between 1995-1997, are you claiming the voting was rigged or something.  C'mon man, let's stop pretending he wasn't among the best of his time. This sounds really revisionist.

Yes Brett Favre won individual accomplishments. Who cares?

 

If Josh Allen wins MVP 11 times and never wins a SB, that would not be good enough.

 

Like I said, Brett Favre isn't sitting at the table with Montana and Brady.  That's fine, bc I don't really care about that either. Just win one.

[Billz4ever]

1 minute ago, SCBills said:

Last night Super Bowl should solidify for anyone, our FO included, that Offense wins Championships.  
 

You couldn’t have told me who had an average defense and who had an elite defense last night.  They both looked the same.  
 

Eagles invested more than us even, in that Defense .. and it didn’t matter when they played an elite offense.  
 

Yet we’ll justify re-signing Edmunds and keeping Oliver around … 24M in cap allocated to excess Defensive talent that doesn’t protect or help our QB.  

And my worry is our defensive-minded HC will never figure that out.

[UKBillFan]

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

He is just mad looking at the 2023 Futures NFL MVP Odds where Allen has a massive lead on Mahomes and everyone else.

 

Bills boards: Allen is a massive problem!! He isn't good enough! Wah! Wah! Wah!  

 

Vegas:  NFL MVP Favorite by a landslide.

 

 

Have to wonder how they've worked that one out.

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

He is just mad looking at the 2023 Futures NFL MVP Odds where Allen has a massive lead on Mahomes and everyone else.

 

Bills boards: Allen is a massive problem!! He isn't good enough! He turns the ball over way way too much!  He is a liability!  Wah! Wah! Wah!  

 

Vegas:  NFL MVP Favorite by a landslide.

 

Imagine caring about Josh Allen's individual awards more than Super Bowl wins. Are you from Wyoming or Buffalo?

[Billz4ever]

4 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

He is just mad looking at the 2023 Futures NFL MVP Odds where Allen has a massive lead on Mahomes and everyone else.

 

Bills boards: Allen is a massive problem!! He isn't good enough! Wah! Wah! Wah!  

 

Vegas:  NFL MVP Favorite by a landslide.

 

The odd makers must have confidence that the FO makes the necessary moves this offseason to make that possible.  I certainly hope they're right.

 

I'm looking forward to the draft, but also dreading it at the same time.

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

As we have seen time and again, defense doesn't really matter in the playoffs against elite teams.  They are gonna score their points. Bills had the #6, #1, and #2 defenses in the NFL and got smoked all three times in the playoffs against elite offenses. 

 

Eagles had the 3rd most sacks in NFL history next to 84 and 85 Bears and got 0 last night. 2nd best D in the NFL, allowed 38 points(31 if you don't count the Defensive TD by KC). KC moved the ball and scored at will on every possession in the 2nd half. 

 

Defense only has to be around league average to be good enough. Bills need to allocate 90% of resources to offensive line and offensive weapons. The rules are simply tilted too far in the offenses favor for it to matter with defense, unless your DLine can maul the other team's OLine and usually that isn't going to happen unless multiple starters are out. 

 

My takeaway isn't that defense doesn't matter in the playoffs, it's that you have to take chances on defense. The Eagles didn't take chances. They dropped their CBs back instead of pressing which gave plenty of space for the Chiefs pass catchers to get open. It was like us against the Bengals. I saw a stat that Mahomes got the ball out of his hands in under 2.5 seconds 56% of the time last night. It's easy to get the ball out fast when your receivers are given a free release, and this helps to neutralize a great pass rushs. In the playoffs against great offenses with experienced players and coaches that style of defensive play makes it way too easy. It was an awful defensive game plan on the biggest stage.

 

The Chiefs under Spagnuolo have been willing to take chances. It burns them sometimes, but it's that or let the championship caliber offense you're playing kill you slowly. Take chances and when the QB inexplicably drops the ball your guy is there to pick it up and run it back for a TD instead of being 10 yards away from the play.

 

The Bills when healthy are plenty talented enough to slow down some of the better offenses. We've seen them do it in the regular season. But can McDermott and Frazier adjust their philosophy for playoff football when simple and safe doesn't get it done?

[MJS]

31 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I love Josh. 

 

I think the narrative that he can do no wrong and is constantly let down by everyone around him is false.

I agree. Josh has his own issues to clean up. He should not be immune from criticism.

 

Yes, the oline needs to be a lot better, and yes, the defense needs to play better in key situations, but Josh made a lot of bad mistakes of his own last year.

 

When your oline is not good, you need to get the ball out quicker, for one thing.

[Beast]

48 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Without a defensive TD the Chiefs would have loss. 

Would they have? Are you saying the Eagles wouldn’t have punted if they recovered and KC wouldn’t have scored a TD? Or KC recovered on the spot and the offense then scored?

 

What I do know is Philly’s vaunted defense had no answer in the 2nd half for the Chiefs last night.

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

My takeaway isn't that defense doesn't matter in the playoffs, it's that you have to take chances on defense. The Eagles didn't take chances. They dropped their CBs back instead of pressing which gave plenty of space for the Chiefs pass catchers to get open. It was like us against the Bengals. I saw a stat that Mahomes got the ball out of his hands in under 2.5 seconds 56% of the time last night. It's easy to get the ball out fast when your receivers are given a free release, and this helps to neutralize a great pass rushs. In the playoffs against great offenses with experienced players and coaches that style of defensive play makes it way too easy. It was an awful defensive game plan on the biggest stage.

 

The Chiefs under Spagnuolo have been willing to take chances. It burns them sometimes, but it's that or let the championship caliber offense you're playing kill you slowly. Take chances and when the QB inexplicably drops the ball your guy is there to pick it up and run it back for a TD instead of being 10 yards away from the play.

 

The Bills when healthy are plenty talented enough to slow down some of the better offenses. We've seen them do it in the regular season. But can McDermott and Frazier adjust their philosophy for playoff football when simple and safe doesn't get it done?

The Chiefs didn't stop the Eagles for a single second bro. Jalen Hurts just dropped the ball. They didn't return it for a TD because of Spags.  That's insane.

[CincyBillsFan]

21 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

No. The issue is Mahomes or Burrow seem to have a hideous game and move on. Josh’s errors seem to permeate across a run. Maybe fewer in a single game but they build up across a number.

I live in Cincinnati and follow the Bengals almost as closely as the Bills and Burrow does have multiple games were he doesn't play his best.  As for Mahomes and the Chiefs all you're seeing is the brilliant ability of Andy Reid to correct mistakes and adjust the Offense when there is a problem.

 

Everything I've seen over the last few years reinforces the following opinions:

 

*  Allen is elite and every bit as good s Mahomes & Burrow or any other QB in the NFL.

 

*  The Bills have struggled for YEARS on the O line.  By any objective measure Buffalo's O line is bad.  Allen hides many of it's deficiencies.  Such poor O line lay will lead to inconsistencies on offense and the occasional games in which Allen struggles.

 

*  Allen has been handicapped by an organization that is not offensively geared.  Success in the current NFL is overwhelmingly characterized by offensive coaches and organizations. Watching KC rebuild its O line while paying big bucks to Mahomes is exactly the template the Bills should be copying. 

 

Notice I didn't even include skill players.  Sure Allen doesn't enjoy the riches in play makers that Tua, Hurts or Burrow enjoy but if you put a great O line in front of Allen and put Andy Reid as his coach Bills fans would already be celebrating a Super Bowl win or two with a more to come.

 

Do I think McD & Bean can get the Bills a Super Bowl victory? Yes I do.  But it starts this off season with a 180 degree pivot in the Bills approach to the offensive side of the ball.

 

 

 

 

 

   

 

 

 

 

[Billz4ever]

33 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

This organization had every opportunity to build a dominant OL in front of Josh in 2019 and beyond.  They've failed him, plain & simple.  They choose defensive failures over protecting and supporting your greatest asset.  Let McD wrestle with that.

Yep, we can claim Josh isn't on a level playing field with guys like Mahomes, but the Bills really have no one to blame for that besides themselves.  

 

I'm hoping after watching this Super Bowl in particular, the lightbulb comes on and they figure out that it's the offense that matters most in today's NFL.  

[Billsfan1972]

26 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Lmao what

 

Allen led the league in TO's by a decent amount.  Led the league in RZ TO's. 

 

These are bad statistics for your QB to be the worst at

And until this year Allen was incredible in the Red zone and then something happened....  Oh yea, coaching and play calling where many successful Red zone were the result of individual playmaking, not schemes or calls. 

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And until this year Allen was incredible in the Red zone and then something happened....  Oh yea, coaching and play calling where many successful Red zone were the result of individual playmaking, not schemes or calls. 

 

Don't need to be a coach to tell you "don't throw this ball" lmao.

[Billz4ever]

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

My takeaway isn't that defense doesn't matter in the playoffs, it's that you have to take chances on defense. The Eagles didn't take chances. They dropped their CBs back instead of pressing which gave plenty of space for the Chiefs pass catchers to get open. It was like us against the Bengals. I saw a stat that Mahomes got the ball out of his hands in under 2.5 seconds 56% of the time last night. It's easy to get the ball out fast when your receivers are given a free release, and this helps to neutralize a great pass rushs. In the playoffs against great offenses with experienced players and coaches that style of defensive play makes it way too easy. It was an awful defensive game plan on the biggest stage.

 

The Chiefs under Spagnuolo have been willing to take chances. It burns them sometimes, but it's that or let the championship caliber offense you're playing kill you slowly. Take chances and when the QB inexplicably drops the ball your guy is there to pick it up and run it back for a TD instead of being 10 yards away from the play.

 

The Bills when healthy are plenty talented enough to slow down some of the better offenses. We've seen them do it in the regular season. But can McDermott and Frazier adjust their philosophy for playoff football when simple and safe doesn't get it done?

True, but that game also showed that you don't even need great receivers to beat a good defense.  You just need good play calling, good blocking up front, and a QB that can deliver the ball on time and the defense is going to have a hard time stopping you no matter what they do.

 

That's how the league is designed these days.  

[CincyBillsFan]

9 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

I feel like "no sacks" was more on both QBs being very mobile and good at escaping pressure than on the OLs. I saw plenty of times the QBs were scrambling and being moved around and out of the pocket. Mahomes wasn't comfortable in a clean pocket from what I saw.

 

That being said, yes, both teams have better OLs than the Bills and we need to address it. Still chaps my ass every time I see Creed getting fired up and making plays for the Chiefs.

There was some of that but at one point they flashed a stat where the QB had only been hurried on 5 of 33 pass attempts.  This pales in comparison to Allen who is routinely hurried on one third to one half of his drop backs. Imagine enduring that game after game after game over a 17 game season?

 

Also because the O lines yesterday were so good what you often saw was ONE guy or a blitzer get in quick and force Mahomes or Hurts to move round.  But across the line you saw guys holding their blocks enabling the QB's to move and reestablish themselves for the throw.