H2o Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 It has been said numerous times, by numerous posters on this site. We NEED to shell out the necessary resources to protect the QB. FA $$$, draft picks, trades, whatever we have to do to make it happen. Watching that game last night, against the most fearsome defensive front in 35 years statistically (based off the number of sacks), the Chiefs OL pretty much dominated. The Chiefs OL is the reason they won that game. Mahomes had the time he needed to do the things he needed to do. No, he didn't have big stats, but he had time to see the field and get the ball off. Pacheco and McKinnon had holes to run through. As a team, collectively, they averaged 6.1 yards per carry. They held one of the most disruptive defensive fronts to 0 sacks and 1 TFL for the entire game. The Chiefs OL was in peril a couple of seasons ago. Patrick didn't have the time he needed back there and was taking some unnecessary punishment. What did the Chiefs do? They signed Joe Thuney in FA, drafted Creed Humphrey and Trey Smith, then traded for Orlando Brown. A complete overhaul in one offseason that turned a weakness into a strength. Their RT situation still isn't the greatest, but Wylie can hold his own. This is what the Chiefs did to protect their star QB. It's clear we need a total overhaul up front. You can't throw all your chips into a guy they supposedly hope takes a step forward in Spencer Brown at RT. You can't throw all your chips into hoping Morse can make it through a season without another concussion. You can't throw all your chips into some 2nd or 3rd tier FA to play LG, hoping you get lucky. You can't throw all of your chips into a middling RG who isn't bad and has some versatility, but at the same time isn't anything more than average either. Dawkins is the only guy that should be an unquestioned starter going into 2023. Morse, maybe, but we need to have a solid backup option because of the concussion issues. A top tier OL keeps Josh from running for his life on almost every single play. It keeps him from having to run a scramble drill find an open man and then throw the ball off script. If they actually give him a pocket he can stand in, then he can process everything without hindrance for a couple of seconds, and get the ball out to someone with his feet set. I don't care how much Josh has done this effectively in the past, throwing the ball while on the move, he deserves better. If they build a top tier OL then our RB's will actually be a threat versus just being a decoy they hope keeps a defense honest. It will change the entire dynamic of this team on offense and the effects will be across the board. It may not be "sexy", it may not be exciting like bringing in another star WR, but this is what ABSOLUTELY needs to be done for Josh. 5 11 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 (edited) 55 minutes ago, H2o said: It has been said numerous times, by numerous posters on this site. We NEED to shell out the necessary resources to protect the QB. FA $$$, draft picks, trades, whatever we have to do to make it happen. Watching that game last night, against the most fearsome defensive front in 35 years statistically (based off the number of sacks), the Chiefs OL pretty much dominated. The Chiefs OL is the reason they won that game. Mahomes had the time he needed to do the things he needed to do. No, he didn't have big stats, but he had time to see the field and get the ball off. Pacheco and McKinnon had holes to run through. As a team, collectively, they averaged 6.1 yards per carry. They held one of the most disruptive defensive fronts to 0 sacks and 1 TFL for the entire game. The Chiefs OL was in peril a couple of seasons ago. Patrick didn't have the time he needed back there and was taking some unnecessary punishment. What did the Chiefs do? They signed Joe Thuney in FA, drafted Creed Humphrey and Trey Smith, then traded for Orlando Brown. A complete overhaul in one offseason that turned a weakness into a strength. Their RT situation still isn't the greatest, but Wylie can hold his own. This is what the Chiefs did to protect their star QB. It's clear we need a total overhaul up front. You can't throw all your chips into a guy they supposedly hope takes a step forward in Spencer Brown at RT. You can't throw all your chips into hoping Morse can make it through a season without another concussion. You can't throw all your chips into some 2nd or 3rd tier FA to play LG, hoping you get lucky. You can't throw all of your chips into a middling RG who isn't bad and has some versatility, but at the same time isn't anything more than average either. Dawkins is the only guy that should be an unquestioned starter going into 2023. Morse, maybe, but we need to have a solid backup option because of the concussion issues. A top tier OL keeps Josh from running for his life on almost every single play. It keeps him from having to run a scramble drill find an open man and then throw the ball off script. If they actually give him a pocket he can stand in, then he can process everything without hindrance for a couple of seconds, and get the ball out to someone with his feet set. I don't care how much Josh has done this effectively in the past, throwing the ball while on the move, he deserves better. If they build a top tier OL then our RB's will actually be a threat versus just being a decoy they hope keeps a defense honest. It will change the entire dynamic of this team on offense and the effects will be across the board. It may not be "sexy", it may not be exciting like bringing in another star WR, but this is what ABSOLUTELY needs to be done for Josh. It also means creating an offensive system where slow-developing drop-back passes aren’t the bread and butter of your offense. It’s just asking for trouble. The Chiefs, Eagles and Niners seem to run an awful lot of plays where receivers are wide open within 7-8 yards of the line of scrimmage, giving the QB a lot of easy, quick-developing options. Edited February 13, 2023 by mannc 4 7 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted February 13, 2023 Author Share Posted February 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, mannc said: It also means creating an offensive system where slow-developing drop-back passes aren’t the bread and butter of your offense. It’s just asking for trouble. The Chiefs, Eagles and Niners seem to run an awful lot of plays where receivers are wide open within 7-8 yards of the line of scrimmage, giving QB a lot of easy, quick-developing options. Yes, the scheming has to be tweaked. Josh also has to take his check downs and let the game come to him. Still, the OL needs to at least give him 2-2.5 seconds back there consistently. The defense should not already be on him when he finishes his drop on half of the snaps. It's not conducive to success, nor the health of our QB long term. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 what needs to be done and what will be done are obviously two different things. time is not on their side and they have already wasted too many chances. close, sure but as we all know that's only good in horseshoes and hand grenades. for myself, 2023 season will be the tell all season. regardless of the hurry up and wait crowd, who seem to year after year give them a pass. no more passes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julian Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 4 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said: what needs to be done and what will be done are obviously two different things. time is not on their side and they have already wasted too many chances. close, sure but as we all know that's only good in horseshoes and hand grenades. for myself, 2023 season will be the tell all season. regardless of the hurry up and wait crowd, who seem to year after year give them a pass. no more passes. No more passes ? what are you going to do if they fall short again ? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 1 minute ago, julian said: No more passes ? what are you going to do if they fall short again ? Fire all of them 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said: what needs to be done and what will be done are obviously two different things. time is not on their side and they have already wasted too many chances. close, sure but as we all know that's only good in horseshoes and hand grenades. for myself, 2023 season will be the tell all season. regardless of the hurry up and wait crowd, who seem to year after year give them a pass. no more passes. well put. Anybody who wants a Super Bowl out of this qb realizes time is running out. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: well put. Anybody who wants a Super Bowl out of this qb realizes time is running out. He should stop leading the league in turnovers before his time runs out then. That’s a good start. 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 7 minutes ago, Dopey said: He should stop leading the league in turnovers before his time runs out then. That’s a good start. Maybe he stops turning the ball over if he has better protection? 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills6969 Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 Oline and Dline need to prioritized this season. Ours doesn’t come close to the level of KC’s or Philly’s. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 Just now, Real McNasty said: Maybe he stops turning the ball over if he has better protection? Why does he get so many excuses? He’s getting all the praise for wins, but excuses when he doesn’t play well. He led the league in turnovers. That’s on him. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
947 Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 Watching each team's first drive, I couldn't believe how clean the pocket was on every pass. I commented on one of the Eagles plays that Josh didn't have that much time on a single play the entire season. I fully agree. I'd like to see 2 OL picks in the first 3 rounds & a FA addition. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 (edited) 22 minutes ago, julian said: No more passes ? what are you going to do if they fall short again ? I'm not going to do anything. I'm stating "they" get no more passes. how many do you think they should get? 5, 7, 10 years? it's been 5 now in to JA's career. there is NO more time to waste! Edited February 13, 2023 by DaBillsFanSince1973 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 The importance of a great OL is a new concept at OBD and for Beane and McD in particular. Be patient though, "Trust the Process," and give 'em another decade. They'll figure it out eventually. Maybe by then Allen will be the OC. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Dopey said: Why does he get so many excuses? He’s getting all the praise for wins, but excuses when he doesn’t play well. He led the league in turnovers. That’s on him. Yup, he will lead the league in turnovers when he literally has 2-3 turnstiles in front of him. Is it any surprise why the #1 and #2 O lines this year in the league were in the SB? Allen 19 overall turnovers Mahomes 12 overall turnovers Burrow 15 overall turnovers GIve Josh Allen a real top 5 NFL line and I can almost guarantee his turnover rate drops. Josh has hid the O line deficiencies for far too long, enough is enough. Edited February 13, 2023 by Real McNasty 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Process Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 22 minutes ago, bills6969 said: Oline and Dline need to prioritized this season. Ours doesn’t come close to the level of KC’s or Philly’s. O line and WR. Defense doesn't matter. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 23 minutes ago, Dopey said: Why does he get so many excuses? He’s getting all the praise for wins, but excuses when he doesn’t play well. He led the league in turnovers. That’s on him. It's not like shooting free throws. It's a team sport. If the receivers aren't getting open and the OL isn't protecting, the QB is gonna have issues. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted February 13, 2023 Author Share Posted February 13, 2023 10 minutes ago, Dopey said: Why does he get so many excuses? He’s getting all the praise for wins, but excuses when he doesn’t play well. He led the league in turnovers. That’s on him. There are facts and there are excuses. In 2020-2021 he had the 10th best OL in the league. That was an MVP caliber year. That was a year with a 69% completion percentage. That year he had 14 total turnovers. This year his OL was 23rd in the league and he was sacked 33 times in 16 games. He still put up almost 5,000 total yards and 45 TD's. He still managed to have the 2nd highest QB rating of his career. He had the 2nd most in yards per attempt in his career. All of this while playing the last half of the season with a torn ligament in his elbow. When you are running for your life on almost every play, while trying to find a guy open downfield, you are going to be prone to making more mistakes and taking hits that cause fumbles. Were some of them on him? Absolutely. There are also turnovers that were on Mahomes, on Burrow, on Herbert, on Lawrence, on every other QB in this league. But he also can't throw the ball and go catch it for himself either. He had 4 INT's that were directly off of his guys' hands or chest that so gratuitously went straight to a defender. There is also no other elite QB in this league who does more with less than Allen. I swear, these narratives that some of you people continue to push are completely dried up. But, here you stand, continuing to beat the flies out of that dead horse. Again, fix the OL and it changes the entire dynamic of the offense from top to bottom. Fix the OL and we are not on the couch for the next SB. 1 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NastyNateSoldiers Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 1 hour ago, H2o said: It has been said numerous times, by numerous posters on this site. We NEED to shell out the necessary resources to protect the QB. FA $$$, draft picks, trades, whatever we have to do to make it happen. Watching that game last night, against the most fearsome defensive front in 35 years statistically (based off the number of sacks), the Chiefs OL pretty much dominated. The Chiefs OL is the reason they won that game. Mahomes had the time he needed to do the things he needed to do. No, he didn't have big stats, but he had time to see the field and get the ball off. Pacheco and McKinnon had holes to run through. As a team, collectively, they averaged 6.1 yards per carry. They held one of the most disruptive defensive fronts to 0 sacks and 1 TFL for the entire game. The Chiefs OL was in peril a couple of seasons ago. Patrick didn't have the time he needed back there and was taking some unnecessary punishment. What did the Chiefs do? They signed Joe Thuney in FA, drafted Creed Humphrey and Trey Smith, then traded for Orlando Brown. A complete overhaul in one offseason that turned a weakness into a strength. Their RT situation still isn't the greatest, but Wylie can hold his own. This is what the Chiefs did to protect their star QB. It's clear we need a total overhaul up front. You can't throw all your chips into a guy they supposedly hope takes a step forward in Spencer Brown at RT. You can't throw all your chips into hoping Morse can make it through a season without another concussion. You can't throw all your chips into some 2nd or 3rd tier FA to play LG, hoping you get lucky. You can't throw all of your chips into a middling RG who isn't bad and has some versatility, but at the same time isn't anything more than average either. Dawkins is the only guy that should be an unquestioned starter going into 2023. Morse, maybe, but we need to have a solid backup option because of the concussion issues. A top tier OL keeps Josh from running for his life on almost every single play. It keeps him from having to run a scramble drill find an open man and then throw the ball off script. If they actually give him a pocket he can stand in, then he can process everything without hindrance for a couple of seconds, and get the ball out to someone with his feet set. I don't care how much Josh has done this effectively in the past, throwing the ball while on the move, he deserves better. If they build a top tier OL then our RB's will actually be a threat versus just being a decoy they hope keeps a defense honest. It will change the entire dynamic of this team on offense and the effects will be across the board. It may not be "sexy", it may not be exciting like bringing in another star WR, but this is what ABSOLUTELY needs to be done for Josh. Are RBs are not a threat we need to get stronger at that position. I agreed with the premise of your post we definitely need to upgrade this Oline in a huge way. Morse should be traded but I believe Bates can be a pro bowl caliber and would be a great replacement for him . With that being said we need to draft at least 2 Olinemen and sign a big ticket G basically the same recipe the Chiefs had. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBeaneBandit Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 13 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said: Are RBs are not a threat we need to get stronger at that position. I agreed with the premise of your post we definitely need to upgrade this Oline in a huge way. Morse should be traded but I believe Bates can be a pro bowl caliber and would be a great replacement for him . With that being said we need to draft at least 2 Olinemen and sign a big ticket G basically the same recipe the Chiefs had. This right here exactly. A way must be found to land one of the top 3 free agent guards on top of drafting 2 more offensive lineman. First guy who whines no money gets one between the legs. Beane must do his job and clear that cap space. Period. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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