Brick-By-Brick, the NFL Losing Me As A Fan

[NoSaint]

3 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

I didn't see where it affected JSS at all. The only slowdown I saw was when he was turning from running parallel to the sideline to turning it up field and that's when the pull you posted happened.  The pull is in the direction JSS is trying to go so I don't see how that brief second of a pull changed anything.

the phrase “any grab of the jersey” is actually in the nfl video rule book as a separate fully standalone clause separate from the impeding the player clause. 

[Billz4ever]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

Curious to know what you think of Chris Simms' take: https://www.nbcsports.com/video/super-bowl-lvii-eagles-james-bradberry-holding-penalty-was-right-call

 

I'm not arguing it wasn't a hold by definition. Never tried to make that argument because yes, technically it is a hold, but so are a heck of a lot of other plays.  I just don't agree they should've called it based on the severity of it, how they called the entire rest of the game, and the impact such a call would have on the game.

 

 

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2023/2/13/23597435/holding-call-super-bowl-eagles-chiefs-james-bradberry

[Mr. WEO]

7 hours ago, Rigotz said:

"The NFL is losing me as a fan" I type on the message board of my favorite team's website, as I hit the refresh button and wait for responses.

 

These threads are so phony.  No one who has ever posted such has been "lost as a fan".  And the "part time ref" stuff is no more a cogent argument now than when it was first made by some whiner or another decades ago.  

 

OP should just stop watching----but leave us out of it....

[Buffalo_Stampede]

11 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

And plays like that happen literally all the time and are not called.  I'm not going over this again with you.  You have your thoughts; I have mine and you aren't going to be changing mine so you might as well stop trying.

 

You're acting like I'm the only one that sees them.

 

 

Do you ever wonder why “that moment “ is the moment to not call it? 
 

I think it was the Tampa game last year where we were freaking out because Diggs couldn’t get a holding call all game? Then the final play of regulation he gets held bad and no call. 
 

If you watch the right angle of the Bradberry play the jersey pulls. 
 

In that moment with JuJu breaking wide open  and Mahomes throwing the ball his way, don’t you have to call it? Doesn’t it change how the game ends by not calling it as well?

 

I understand the rest of the game they let stuff go, but this play was for the game.

 

With that said I’m always pro no call but this play was different IMO. Kind of reminded me of the Buccaneers no calls in the Bills game.

[Billz4ever]

7 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

the phrase “any grab of the jersey” is actually in the nfl video rule book as a separate fully standalone clause separate from the impeding the player clause. 

OK is there a point?  Do you not pay attention to how many jersey grabs happen over the course of a game against both offenses and defenses?  Like I said, I'm not even debating if it was a hold by definition, but yet you keep trying to convince me of something I've never disputed.

 

5 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Do you ever wonder why “that moment “ is the moment to not call it? 
 

I think it was the Tampa game last year where we were freaking out because Diggs couldn’t get a holding call all game? Then the final play of regulation he gets held bad and no call. 
 

If you watch the right angle of the Bradberry play the jersey pulls. 
 

In that moment with JuJu breaking wide open  and Mahomes throwing the ball his way, don’t you have to call it? Doesn’t it change how the game ends by not calling it as well?

 

I understand the rest of the game they let stuff go, but this play was for the game.

 

With that said I’m always pro no call but this play was different IMO. Kind of reminded me of the Buccaneers no calls in the Bills game.

I simply didn't see the impact of the jersey grab as being significant enough to alter the outcome of the play. Had he kept holding the jersey, sure, but it was over in a blink.  That, based on how they called the rest of the game, it was like they changed up their "discretion" starting with that play.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Billz4ever

[DCofNC]

7 hours ago, Buckets said:

I was afraid that I was the only one.  I don't get reved up about football like I used to.

Same, I’m even losing it over the Bills.  For me the whole thing is starting to wreak of a soap opera.  SO much virtue signaling, idiotic cometary, blatant steering of games through the officials, etc.  It’s harder and harder to GAF every year.

[Bob Jones]

10 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Curious to know what you think of Chris Simms' take: https://www.nbcsports.com/video/super-bowl-lvii-eagles-james-bradberry-holding-penalty-was-right-call

I just watched this, and apparently they were not able to get the actual video from the game from Fox, but instead they showed a bunch of still photos, AND IN THOSE PHOTOS, NONE OF THEM SHOWED THE ACTUAL JERSEY HOLDING THEY KEPT REFERRING TO! LOL

 

Yes, I have seen video of it though, and seen the momentary jersey grab by the CB, at full speed, and like many others, think that it should not have been called. JSS was not noticeably restrained.

12 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

the phrase “any grab of the jersey” is actually in the nfl video rule book as a separate fully standalone clause separate from the impeding the player clause. 

I can plainly see offensive players who are blocking...especially linemen and tight ends...grabbing jerseys EVERY...SINGLE...PLAY, of every single game. So like others are saying, it's done virtually ALL THE TIME.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

13 minutes ago, Bob Jones said:

I just watched this, and apparently they were not able to get the actual video from the game from Fox, but instead they showed a bunch of still photos, AND IN THOSE PHOTOS, NONE OF THEM SHOWED THE ACTUAL JERSEY HOLDING THEY KEPT REFERRING TO! LOL

 

Yes, I have seen video of it though, and seen the momentary jersey grab by the CB, at full speed, and like many others, think that it should not have been called. JSS was not noticeably restrained.

We never get the full shot the ref had for whatever reason. They never showed the jersey pull shot for whatever reason also. 
 

JuJu breaks open after the hold. Imagine if there was no hold. Remember the hold also helps Bradberry recover as he’s beat bad.
 

Put both videos together. Bradberry needed the hold to help stay with JuJu. He’s literally going the wrong way, holds JuJu to pull closer.

 

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Back2Buff]

Blame capitalism.  Seriously.  The never ending flight of trying to make the most money will never end.

 

Players are now movie stars.  Everything is a show.  Its exhausting.  

[Dick_Cheney]

16 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

 

I'm not arguing it wasn't a hold by definition. Never tried to make that argument because yes, technically it is a hold, but so are a heck of a lot of other plays.  I just don't agree they should've called it based on the severity of it, how they called the entire rest of the game, and the impact such a call would have on the game.

 

 

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2023/2/13/23597435/holding-call-super-bowl-eagles-chiefs-james-bradberry

This is the correct take.

 

Sure, it was technically a hold. But such behavior had been allowed all game long. The arbitrary enforcement was horrendous, and the timing of the call to essentially determine the winner is inexcusable.

 

The worst part is there won't be any real fallout from this. Nothing will change in regards to referees or officiating overall. It's just brutal. I can't stand either franchise, but moments like that don't exactl help what integrity the game has left, and it's already problematic enough.

 

There's got to be a better way, and I'm sure that there is, but the league simply won't give a ***** until they really notice it in their bottom line. And I'm pretty sure profits are at an all time high.

 

Maybe I'm too young in my 30s and it's always been like this, or worse. But now with as many technological aspects for possible solutions there are, combined with the league going all in on unholy amounts of gambling, something needs to change. It's got to be tightened up.

[NewEra]

7 hours ago, nucci said:

Eagles player admitted to holding. If that was a Bills receiver and it wasn't called, this place would have gone nuts. If it  was still ruined for you then you probably should stop watching

Stats also admit that that was the only instance in the entire game in which a DB held receiver.  
 

it was a ticky tac penalty to decide the champion.  A penalty that occurs on almost every pass play.  A penalty that decided the champion.  
 

couldn’t have been a worse ending to the season.  Fitting
 

 

[BuffaloRebound]

I keep hearing the argument that “it had been allowed all game”.  Is there any actual evidence of that?  And the grab might not have effected the WR that much but it definitely allowed Bradberry to be stickier in his coverage.  I didn’t love the call but if your complaint is ‘yeah, it’s a penalty but they could’ve called it the entire game’ then show everybody where else in the game a DB grabbed a guy’s jersey and it wasn’t called.  

[Billz4ever]

15 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

We never get the full shot the ref had for whatever reason. They never showed the jersey pull shot for whatever reason also. 
 

JuJu breaks open after the hold. Imagine if there was no hold. Remember the hold also helps Bradberry recover as he’s beat bad.
 

 

Even the dude who made the tweet acknowledges in wasn't egregious and for the call to come there I think it has to be.  It's literally game deciding.

 

This is my take on it and this is the last time I'm talking about it because at this point, everyone is just repeating themselves.

 

If the refs called every tug, pull, hook, and grab that happens over the course of the game on both the OL/DL battles and in the secondary between receivers and DBs, we'd be there all night watching them make holding calls, that according to the rulebook, are legit holding calls by definition.

 

But we don't see that.  We see it to different extents every game.  Why is that?  Because the refs are using their discretion.  

 

On this play in particular, I didn't see it as impacting the outcome of the play and based on how they called the rest of the game, I was of the opinion, this play fell in-line with that and there should've been no flag.

 

Obviously, people have different opinions.  That's mine and I would've preferred a no-call there and we see if the Chiefs D can stop Philly from scoring after their FG on 4th and 8.

 

I didn't care about who won, I simply don't like seeing games decided that way, especially a Super Bowl. Whenever possible, let them play.

 

What I'm saying is basically the same thing as this article.  

 

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2023/2/13/23597435/holding-call-super-bowl-eagles-chiefs-james-bradberry

Edited February 13, 2023 by Billz4ever

[ChevyVanMiller]

8 hours ago, pocoboy said:

I hate to say it, but I don't feel that they want guys like me as consumers anymore. I don't tune in for theatrics, politics, or the type of pop music that litters this "spectacle."

 

And then, we finally get to the true reason that those who are their loyal, week-in and week-out customers tune in, and then they have systems in place which allow for 1 of 7 underpaid, part-time officials to ruin our primary focus. They take the game and turn it into a mockery.

 

All of this thrown together, and it gives me the feeling I have better ways to waste my Sunday afternoons. Goodell & the NFL are ruining something I've loved since childhood.

 

And I even wanted (ever so slightly) for the Chiefs to win.

See you in September.

[Wayne Cubed]

33 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

If you want to go back to it happening all night, I won’t pursue that point with you until you provide actual reference material either 

To be fair, it was occuring throughout the night, the below was on the third KC possession, CB is tugging the jersey. This was on 3rd down. I only remember the play because JSS was also hooked and turned on his route and I thought, well if they aren’t calling that tonight they aren’t calling anything. Pretty clear Valdez-Scatling is getting the jersey pulled here.

[NoSaint]

5 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

To be fair, it was occuring throughout the night, the below was on the third KC possession, CB is tugging the jersey. This was on 3rd down. I only remember the play because JSS was also hooked and turned on his route and I thought, well if they aren’t calling that tonight they aren’t calling anything. Pretty clear Valdez-Scatling is getting the jersey pulled here.

I appreciate it- I think the context of consistent vs inconsistent is everything on this one. I’m surprised that we are getting random celeb tweets and not more of these clips 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

4 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

Even the dude who made the tweet acknowledges in wasn't egregious and for the call to come there I think it has to be.  It's literally game deciding.

 

This is my take on it and this is the last time I'm talking about it because at this point, everyone is just repeating themselves.

 

If the refs called every tug, pull, hook, and grab that happens over the course of the game on both the OL/DL battles and in the secondary between receivers and DBs, we'd be there all night watching them make holding calls, that according to the rulebook, are legit holding calls by definition.

 

But we don't see that.  We see it to different extents every game.  Why is that?  Because the refs are using their discretion.  

 

On this play in particular, I didn't see it as impacting the outcome of the play and based on how they called the rest of the game, I was of the opinion, this play fell in-line with that and there should've been no flag.

 

Obviously, people have different opinions.  That's mine and I would've preferred a no-call there and we see if the Chiefs D can stop Philly from scoring after their FG on 4th and 8.

 

I didn't care about who won, I simply don't like seeing games decided that way, especially a Super Bowl. Whenever possible, let them play.

 

What I'm saying is basically the same thing as this article.  

 

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2023/2/13/23597435/holding-call-super-bowl-eagles-chiefs-james-bradberry

We still don’t see the full shot. But we definitely see a jersey pull. I don’t think anyone can say if it was egregious or not. It’s totally subjective. I personally see JuJu’s momentum slow in on shot and I see Bradberry pull closer with the hold.

 

Every tug and hold isn’t going to prevent a WR from breaking wide open in the final 2 minutes of a game. This one does. 
 

I’ve always said that fans and media don’t care about non calls as much. In our eyes it’s better to not make the call, let them play. This is exactly what is happening. It’s a clear as day hold that changes the end of the game. We don’t want it called because we don’t want to even see a ref in that moment.

 

 

[Billz4ever]

10 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

To be fair, it was occuring throughout the night, the below was on the third KC possession, CB is tugging the jersey. This was on 3rd down. I only remember the play because JSS was also hooked and turned on his route and I thought, well if they aren’t calling that tonight they aren’t calling anything. Pretty clear Valdez-Scatling is getting the jersey pulled here.

It was the same thing on the OL/DL battles.  I remember several plays on both sides where it looked to be a clear case of offensive holding and the flag never came.  

 

The only thing I remember even remotely close to that was the illegal hands call against Suh.  There were some obvious false starts and Offside, but no holding. None.

 

How many games have you watched this year where you could say that?  

[Wayne Cubed]

1 minute ago, NoSaint said:

I appreciate it- I think the context of consistent vs inconsistent is everything on this one. I’m surprised that we are getting random celeb tweets and not more of these clips 

Yea, it’s the inconsistency for me. Thought the refs set out their stalls fairly early in the game by not calling things like this. Which I’m fine with, just don’t come back to it later in the game.

 

And if you look at the penalties called through the game. There wasn’t a PI called on the defense. There wasn’t a holding call on either OL. The penalties were procedure penalties, Offside, false start, delay of game etc.

 

Just thought based on how they were calling the game to that point, it was odd to call that defensive holding there

[Meatloaf63]

8 hours ago, streetkings01 said:

It looked like holding to me. People just mad because it’s the Chiefs. When you watched the game nobody on the Eagles was complaining…..they knew the call was legit.

I don’t know, I wanted the Chiefs and I felt a little dirty after that.