Brick-By-Brick, the NFL Losing Me As A Fan

[Billz4ever]

4 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

yea, it took the air out of the moment but was letter of the rule and no one’s shown it inconsistent yet… not my favorite call but definitely not egregious as highlighted this far.

you came and made an unsubstantiated claim that should be easy to substantiate- I’m not sure what to say about your dislike of being questioned on it. Don’t make the claim if you don’t plan to back it up somehow? 

Like I said, I don't bark at your command and I'm not scouring though game footage to satisfy your demands.  So enjoy your "win" here since it's clear winning the argument is your only goal.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Billz4ever

[cgg716]

People complaining about politics have never watched sports it seems, but I’ll leave that there because officiating complainers are worse. Philly got several key calls, gave away 7 free points and the defense and ST was trash after half time, but it’s the refs, just stop

[BarleyNY]

4 hours ago, Gregg said:

I don't like all the political stuff with the game either. That is the world we live in today. The game itself was fantastic. Many times, the game doesn't live up to the hype but this one did. What sucks is we now have a long offseason. Baseball (Yankee fan here) is around the corner. That helps but nothing beats football.

In particular I thought the NFL’s  use of Pat Tillman and his death as a PR prop was disgusting. 

[Malazan]

5 hours ago, pocoboy said:

I hate to say it, but I don't feel that they want guys like me as consumers anymore. I don't tune in for theatrics, politics, or the type of pop music that litters this "spectacle."

 

And then, we finally get to the true reason that those who are their loyal, week-in and week-out customers tune in, and then they have systems in place which allow for 1 of 7 underpaid, part-time officials to ruin our primary focus. They take the game and turn it into a mockery.

 

All of this thrown together, and it gives me the feeling I have better ways to waste my Sunday afternoons. Goodell & the NFL are ruining something I've loved since childhood.

 

And I even wanted (ever so slightly) for the Chiefs to win.

Wut?

 

I think the officiating is an issue (well, more the complexity of the rulebook trying to account for everything), but underpaid is not any part of the problem. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

For the older fans…was the officiating this questionable in the 80s/90s? 

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

In the time you’ve spent typing it you could’ve found examples of all the other holds ignored to put this to bed 

Not a hold, but in the early second quarter when the Chiefs were down 14-7 and with a third and 8 from their own 27 yard line, there was a blatantly obvious PI on Smith-Schuster (the defender clearly grabbed his arm and pulled it back before the ball got there) that wasn't called. I mean, it was BLATANT. I'm guessing you remember it -- Smith Schuster was livid, and rightly so. The non-call took a possession away from the Chiefs. Hurts fumbled it on the Eagles next possession, so I guess you can say "no harm no foul," but one can't predict the future. The point is, they were letting some stuff go in the secondary in that game. The PI was way more obvious than the hold. 

 

Indeed, one way to think about that defensive holding call was that it was possibly a make-up call for the earlier play (both plays involved J S-S). Perhaps the Chiefs' coaches reminded the refs about it over the course of the game. And perhaps the league may have told the refs at halftime that they blew a call. Who knows?

Edited February 13, 2023 by dave mcbride

[NoSaint]

12 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

In particular I thought the NFL’s  use of Pat Tillman and his death as a PR prop was disgusting. 

I mentioned that being a big surprise in the moment. I thought it was pretty well known but many around me were relatively unfamiliar. I guess they did a little market study and realized they could dust it back off now 

[pocoboy]

1 minute ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

For the older fans…was the officiating this questionable in the 80s/90s? 

 

Maybe, I will say the disappearance of the Super Bowl blow-out is awfully suspicious from a statistical standpoint. Remember when that Bills/Giants Super Bowl was the closest Super Bowl in ages? Now every single one seems to be one score.

[NoSaint]

4 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Not a hold, but in the early second quarter when the Chiefs were down 14-7 and with a third and 8 from their own 27 yard line, there was a blatantly obvious PI on Smith-Schuster (the defender clearly grabbed his arm and pulled it back before the ball got there) that wasn't called. I mean, it was BLATANT. I'm guessing you remember it -- Smith Schuster was livid, and rightly so. The non-call took a possession away from the Chiefs. Hurts fumbled it on the Eagles next possession, so I guess you can say "no harm no foul," but one can't predict the future. The point is, they were letting some stuff go in the secondary in that game. The PI was way more obvious than the hold. 

 

Indeed, one way to think about that defensive holding call was that it was possibly a make-up call for the earlier play. Perhaps the Chiefs' coaches reminded the refs about it over the course of the game. And perhaps the league may have told the refs at halftime that they blew a call. Who knows?

I do recall that - and would be curious to rewatch. That said, one play early in the second quarter I don’t think supports that they swallowed the whistle all game and guys adapted to a style of accepted play and then were surprised suddenly type of claims. 
 

I dont expect a perfect game but a relatively consistent one. Mistakes happen, bad angles happen, etc…. But I would be more outraged if it was an incredibly grabby game all night and then out of nowhere the call comes. I don’t feel like that’s my recollection of the night nor has anyone really shown it. 

[Jauronimo]

5 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

For the older fans…was the officiating this questionable in the 80s/90s? 

The resolution wasn't clear enough to see the football and instant replay was barely a thing so no one really had the tools to dissect the officiating the way they do today.  But yes, the officiating was every bit as bad back then or worse.

 

https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/1159153/on-this-date-in-sports-november-29-1998-just-give-it-to-them

 

....and the air was fresher back then, and freedom was sweeter, and cats and dogs played in the streets in perfect harmony.....but everything is different now and thats bad!

[Thrivefourfive]

I started watching at 6:30 PST, skipped all the crap. I actually found that the announcers were low key and didn’t get in the way of the game. Although I still can’t help but hear the female ice skater voice from the analyst. Wow FOX. So it seemed like a regular season 1pm game on FOX to me. btw I was done with Super Bowl parties ten years ago, so old man here.

[dave mcbride]

17 minutes ago, pocoboy said:

 

Maybe, I will say the disappearance of the Super Bowl blow-out is awfully suspicious from a statistical standpoint. Remember when that Bills/Giants Super Bowl was the closest Super Bowl in ages? Now every single one seems to be one score.

There are fewer blowouts, but I think that's a direct result of enforced parity (salary, no more plan B, etc. etc.) -- which is great for the game overall. There have been five blowouts in the past 24 years: Denver over Atlanta, the Ravens over the Giants, Tampa over the Raiders, Seattle over Denver, and Tampa over KC. The Indy win over Chicago wasn't really close either; the Colts dominated that game in every category. Devin Hester had a kickoff return TD that kept the Bears in the game longer than they should have been. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by dave mcbride

[BuffaloRebound]

2 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

The resolution wasn't clear enough to see the football and instant replay was barely a thing so no one really had the tools to dissect the officiating the way they do today.  But yes, the officiating was every bit as bad back then or worse.

 

https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/1159153/on-this-date-in-sports-november-29-1998-just-give-it-to-them

 

The officiating was terrible back then.  Testaverde scored a TD for the Jets that was a yard and a half short that resulted in teams not making the playoffs.  Now people cry conspiracy when a flag is thrown and the player admits he committed the penalty.  NFL officiating problem now is how do you create consistency among the entire crew doing a game when 7 guys can throw a flag, but otherwise NFL officiating is 1000% better than it used to be. 

[dave mcbride]

11 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

I do recall that - and would be curious to rewatch. That said, one play early in the second quarter I don’t think supports that they swallowed the whistle all game and guys adapted to a style of accepted play and then were surprised suddenly type of claims. 
 

I dont expect a perfect game but a relatively consistent one. Mistakes happen, bad angles happen, etc…. But I would be more outraged if it was an incredibly grabby game all night and then out of nowhere the call comes. I don’t feel like that’s my recollection of the night nor has anyone really shown it. 

I get all of that. I'm now wondering whether it was Bradberry was the one interfering with J S-S on that earlier play. I can't find a link, though. I think the larger point is that guys are allowed to hold in the NFL. Indeed, Pete Carroll basically got his guys to hold almost every play because he knew the refs wouldn't call it that often (it'd ruin game flow and undermine the entertainment factor). Seattle would lead the league in defensive holding calls, but they'd also lead the league in defense ...

 

Maybe Bradberry had been doing it all game and on a key play the ref decided that enough was enough and that he wasn't going to let him do it yet again with the game on the line. Not calling it there may have been decisive in its own way too, if you know what I mean. Regardless, it was very ticky-tack. I've gotten used to watching Tre White doing worse on virtually every play.  

Edited February 13, 2023 by dave mcbride

[nucci]

15 minutes ago, pocoboy said:

 

Maybe, I will say the disappearance of the Super Bowl blow-out is awfully suspicious from a statistical standpoint. Remember when that Bills/Giants Super Bowl was the closest Super Bowl in ages? Now every single one seems to be one score.

Free agency and salary cap are the reasons games are closer

[NoSaint]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

I get all of that. I'm now wondering whether it was Bradberry was the one interfering with J S-S on that earlier play. I can't find a link, though. I think the larger point is that guys are allowed to hold in the NFL. Indeed, Pete Carroll basically got his guys to hold almost every play. Seattle would lead the league in defensive holding calls, but they'd also lead the league in defense because you can't call it every play. Maybe Bradberry had been doing it all game and on a key play the ref decided that enough was enough and that he wasn't going to let him do it yet again with the game on the line. Not calling it there may have been decisive in its own way too, if you know what I mean. Regardless, it was very ticky-tack. I've gotten used to watching Tre White doing worse on virtually every play.  

this crew is known for throwing flags, and I think we’d have the montage of clips if it was going on all game. Can you imagine a fan base sitting on their hands if the proof was there? We will see with the all 22. It’s possible, and would change my feelings but there’s some burden of prof if claiming that’s the case 

[Jauronimo]

Just now, BuffaloRebound said:

The officiating was terrible back then.  Testaverde scored a TD for the Jets that was a yard and a half short that resulted in teams not making the playoffs.  Now people cry conspiracy when a flag is thrown and the player admits he committed the penalty.  NFL officiating problem now is how do you create consistency among the entire crew doing a game when 7 guys can throw a flag, but otherwise NFL officiating is 1000% better than it used to be. 

"Just give it to them!"

 

The rule changes have introduced more subjectivity into the game but I think that has gotten better the last 2 years.  I believe we kinda know what a catch is and now we are near 100% on fumble vs incomplete pass.  People love to B word about RTP but I am thankful we aren't watching Case Keenum vs Chad Henne in January.

 

 

[dave mcbride]

13 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

The resolution wasn't clear enough to see the football and instant replay was barely a thing so no one really had the tools to dissect the officiating the way they do today.  But yes, the officiating was every bit as bad back then or worse.

 

https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/1159153/on-this-date-in-sports-november-29-1998-just-give-it-to-them

 

....and the air was fresher back then, and freedom was sweeter, and cats and dogs played in the streets in perfect harmony.....but everything is different now and thats bad!

The PI call on the hail mary was just as bad as the just give it 'em call.

[Jauronimo]

Just now, NoSaint said:

this crew is known for throwing flags, and I think we’d have the montage of clips if it was going on all game. Can you imagine a fan base sitting on their hands if the proof was there? We will see with the all 22. It’s possible, and would change my feelings but there’s some burden of prof if claiming that’s the case 

9 penalties were assessed for 47 yards total.

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, NoSaint said:

this crew is known for throwing flags, and I think we’d have the montage of clips if it was going on all game. Can you imagine a fan base sitting on their hands if the proof was there? We will see with the all 22. It’s possible, and would change my feelings but there’s some burden of prof if claiming that’s the case 

I get that, and I just don't know because I wasn't paying super-close attention to off-ball activity and couldn't see much downfield because of the limitations of how games are broadcasted. 

3 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

"Just give it to them!"

 

The rule changes have introduced more subjectivity into the game but I think that has gotten better the last 2 years.  I believe we kinda know what a catch is and now we are near 100% on fumble vs incomplete pass.  People love to B word about RTP but I am thankful we aren't watching Case Keenum vs Chad Henne in January.

 

 

Skyler Thompson, Tyler Huntley, and Josh Johnson, though (not to mention Brock Purdy). And oh yeah: Christian McCaffrey.