The Super Bowl winning team just gave up 35 points in a Championship game.

[JerseyBills]

13 hours ago, Beast said:

I am the biggest fan of Edmunds but how do you justify giving him a big contract? 
 

Let him and Poyer walk.

 

Get Allen some speed and protection and the Bills will be on stage at this time next season.

 

Enough said!

I get the logic . I agree on Poyer and even Ed for 10 mil but i think Edmunds is a must re sign. Keep him and Milano as 1 of the best LB duos in the gm. Maine is a physical freak and been a leader and will be here for years to come. 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, dorquemada said:

Defense matters in as much as you can make critical stops at critical times.  KC spends a whole lot less on D than we do, but have an opportunistic D that seems to show up big in the biggest moments.  Our D on the other hand is statistically smothering but finds a way to show up small when the chips are down.  That hurts when you look at what we could have had loaded up on our Offense in the last several drafts instead of grabbing a bunch of JAGs for some dumb rotational DL that cant get to the QB or stop opponents on 3rd and forever

I agree.  My point is, again, defense matters.  It didn’t matter in this Super Bowl. 
 

Coordinators game plans and play calling can be just as effective as investing heavily in great players, like Spags has shown in both the chiefs SB victories. Getting stops when needed. It wasn’t Chris Jones making the :rd down stops.  It was Spags blitzing of average LB Willie Gay.  Winning games of chess when it matters most.

 

the problem with our drafting of defensive players on day 2 isn’t that we drafted defensive players. It’s that the players that we drafted haven’t developed into what they had hoped. If AJ and Boogie had turned into Josh Sweat or Chris Jones, the problems on offense wouldn’t be under the same microscope. The fact they they busted is the problem imo.  Maybe that’s the players being drafted fault.  Maybe it’s the coaches fault, or a bit of both.  
 

Either way, teams with terrible defenses rarely win the Super Bowl for a reason.  Defenses do matter.  Defensive play calling matters. That’s my only point. 

20 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Your premise also forgets that they scored 31 on the top D in the NFL and would have lost if not for a TD return by the D (they would have been down 24-7 or worse if not for that turnover) and the D stepped up in the second half against a top rated O in the Eagles. 
 

What the every team in the league needs is a D that steps up in crunch time and an O that will bring it against a tough D when dowb.

Fixed. 

[Solomon Grundy]

2 hours ago, Process said:

Defense does not matter. 

Nor does a QB throwing for 300+ yards😎

[ShakAttack]

If anything, what the Chiefs have proven over the past few weeks is the value of coaching and game planning.

 

Against Cinci, they had the pass rushers to take advantage of Cinci's injuries on the OL and won the game because of it.

 

In the Super Bowl, they successfully neutralized Philly's pass rush and exploited their porous secondary (which has been an opportunity for teams against Philly all year long as long as you CAN neutralize their pass rush).  

 

 

[Billsflyer12]

35 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I agree.  My point is, again, defense matters.  It didn’t matter in this Super Bowl. 
 

Coordinators game plans and play calling can be just as effective as investing heavily in great players, like Spags has shown in both the chiefs SB victories. Getting stops when needed. It wasn’t Chris Jones making the :rd down stops.  It was Spags blitzing of average LB Willie Gay.  Winning games of chess when it matters most.

 

the problem with our drafting of defensive players on day 2 isn’t that we drafted defensive players. It’s that the players that we drafted haven’t developed into what they had hoped. If AJ and Boogie had turned into Josh Sweat or Chris Jones, the problems on offense wouldn’t be under the same microscope. The fact they they busted is the problem imo.  Maybe that’s the players being drafted fault.  Maybe it’s the coaches fault, or a bit of both.  
 

Either way, teams with terrible defenses rarely win the Super Bowl for a reason.  Defenses do matter.  Defensive play calling matters. That’s my only point. 

Let’s look at the last 4 Super Bowl, the Mahomes era.

 

1).  Both the winners and losers of last 4 Super Bowls were coached by offensive coaches.

 

2).  The defensive ranking of the winner of last 4 Super Bowls have gotten lower and lower each season.  None in top 5.  The last 2 Super Bowl winners rank 15th and 16th in Total Defense.

 

3).  The last 5 Super Bowl winners have a top 10 Total Offense, 4 of those 5 were top 5 in Total Offense.

 

Your point of a team winner Super Bowl with a terrible defense may be true.  A mid table defense is enough if you have an elite offense.  The offense in this Mahomes Era is so much more important and this team has neglected it.  An offensive minded Head Coach has literally made 100% of Super Bowls in this Mahomes era.  Could it happen to this version of Bills, maybe?  You wouldn’t bet a whole lot on the small chance it could with the Bills as currently constructed.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Billsflyer12

[Thrivefourfive]

I don’t know. The Chiefs defense looked a lot different than the Bills defense. They flew all over the field; didn’t give up; didn’t looked beaten. They made multiple pre snap penalties that lead to Philly points. 
 

The Eagles defense in the second half looked more like the Bills defensive. Deflating. Team morale killing. Giving up EASY touchdowns.

 

I think there’s a huge difference with how the Chiefs defense looks versus how the Bills soft, no rush, easy yards, giving up 3rd and long blah blah blah. 
 

The Chiefs defensive just doesn’t scream, WE CAN’T DO ANYTHING TO STOP AN OFFENSIVE. And Mahomes does what it takes to keep it close. Then wins. 
 

And the Chiefs defensive SCORED, which probably won them the game. They’re always scratching. 

[NewEra]

17 minutes ago, Billsflyer12 said:

Let’s look at the last 4 Super Bowl, the Mahomes era.

 

1).  Both the winners and losers of last 4 Super Bowls were coached by offensive coaches.

 

2).  The defensive ranking of the winner of last 4 Super Bowls have gotten lower and lower each season.  None in top 5.  The last 2 Super Bowl winners rank 15th and 16th in Total Defense.

 

3).  The last 5 Super Bowl winners have a top 10 Total Offense, 4 of those 5 were top 5 in Total Offense.

 

Your point of a team winner Super Bowl with a terrible defense may be true.  A mid table defense is enough if you have an elite offense.  The offense in this Mahomes Era is so much more important and this team has neglected it.  An offensive minded Head Coach has literally made 100% of Super Bowls in this Mahomes era.  Could it happen to this version of Bills, maybe?  You wouldn’t bet a whole lot on the small chance it could with the Bills as currently constructed.

What does this have to do with the previous 4 super bowl champions holding their opponents to under 21 points?  What does this have to do with my point—— defense does matter?  
 

are you also saying “defense doesn’t matter”?  That was the original title of the thread. OP has now changed it

Edited February 13, 2023 by NewEra

[Billsflyer12]

25 minutes ago, NewEra said:

What does this have to do with the previous 4 super bowl champions holding their opponents to under 21 points?  What does this have to do with my point—— defense does matter?  
 

are you also saying “defense doesn’t matter”?  That was the original title of the thread. OP has now changed it

A great defense does NOT matter, a great offense DOES in the Mahomes era.

 

Having an offensive minded Head Coach DOES matter, a defensive Head Coach is a LIABILITY in Mahomes era.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Billsflyer12

[dave mcbride]

46 minutes ago, Billsflyer12 said:

Let’s look at the last 4 Super Bowl, the Mahomes era.

 

1).  Both the winners and losers of last 4 Super Bowls were coached by offensive coaches.

 

2).  The defensive ranking of the winner of last 4 Super Bowls have gotten lower and lower each season.  None in top 5.  The last 2 Super Bowl winners rank 15th and 16th in Total Defense.

 

3).  The last 5 Super Bowl winners have a top 10 Total Offense, 4 of those 5 were top 5 in Total Offense.

 

Your point of a team winner Super Bowl with a terrible defense may be true.  A mid table defense is enough if you have an elite offense.  The offense in this Mahomes Era is so much more important and this team has neglected it.  An offensive minded Head Coach has literally made 100% of Super Bowls in this Mahomes era.  Could it happen to this version of Bills, maybe?  You wouldn’t bet a whole lot on the small chance it could with the Bills as currently constructed.

Let's look at the last decade of Super Bowl winners and use what I think is a better and more telling stat: defensive DVOA, which factors in a lot more than just raw yards and points.

 

2013: #1 overall defense (Seattle)

2014: #12 overall (New England)

2015: #1 overall (Denver)

2016: #16 overall (New England)

2017: #5 overall (Philly)

2018: #19 overall (New England)

2019: #14 overall (KC)

2020: #5 overall (Tampa Bay)

2021: #5 overall (LA Rams)

2022: #17 overall (KC; Philly was ranked 6th overall this year, btw)

 

So: half of the SB winners in the past decade have had a top five defense and twice the best defense overall has won it. No terrible defenses have been SB winners either (while the 2019 NE defense wasn't great, it wasn't a bottom feeder and it stepped up to essentially win the SB vs. LA by itself).  

Edited February 13, 2023 by dave mcbride

[Rebel101]

15 hours ago, whorlnut said:

If our d is top 8-12, then that should be good enough if we get Allen a brick wall and another elite weapon. No reason whatsoever to draft defense except for maybe on day 3. 

Except we have a defensive minded coach who does what he does. 

[SCBills]

15 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Well the team that lost scored 35…so if they could actually make a few stops they win. You can look at it like, 35 should be enough. But you had no defense when it mattered. Hold them to 34 and you win…works both ways

 

Eagles invested in their Defense as much as anyone this year.  

 

It didn't matter in the Super Bowl.  Lucky for them, they don't have KC, BUF, CIN or even LAC in their way to get there, or they likely would've been exposed earlier.  

 

This is an Offense-driven league and the Playoffs are a different animal..  Give a good DC an average Defense and an elite player on the DL and you're golden to invest heavy around your elite QB.  

 

Giving Edmunds a huge contract after watching that game would an absolute joke.  It's bad enough that Oliver is on this team next year at an 11M cap hit.  

 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by SCBills

[Billsflyer12]

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Let's look at the last decade of Super Bowl winners and use what I think is a better and more telling stat: defensive DVOA, which factors in a lot more than just raw yards and points.

 

2013: #1 overall defense (Seattle)

2014: #12 overall (New England)

2015: #1 overall (Denver)

2016: #16 overall (New England)

2017: #5 overall (Philly)

2018: #19 overall (New England)

2019: #14 overall (KC)

2020: #5 overall (Tampa Bay)

2021: #5 overall (LA Rams)

2022: #17 overall (KC; Philly was ranked 6th overall this year, btw)

 

So: half of the SB winners in the past decade have had a top five defense and twice the best defense overall has won it. No terrible defenses have been SB winners either (while the 2019 NE defense wasn't great, it wasn't a bottom feeder and it stepped up to essentially win the SB vs. LA by itself).  

I said in the Mahomes Era.  The current QB, Coach and team that is the standard now, currently.

 

Use DOVA, fine.  3 of the past 5 SB winners were 14th or worse in defense.  BTW the 2 who weren’t Bucs and Rams were 3 and 8th in Total Offense.

 

Both the wining and losing coaches in past 4 SB were Offensive coaches, that’s 8 for 8.  7 of the last 8 playoff teams this season were offensive coaches.

 

OFFENSE wins Championships now in the Mahomes era, not defense.  That’s my point.

[dave mcbride]

14 minutes ago, Billsflyer12 said:

I said in the Mahomes Era.  The current QB, Coach and team that is the standard now, currently.

 

Use DOVA, fine.  3 of the past 5 SB winners were 14th or worse in defense.  BTW the 2 who weren’t Bucs and Rams were 3 and 8th in Total Offense.

 

Both the wining and losing coaches in past 4 SB were Offensive coaches, that’s 8 for 8.  7 of the last 8 playoff teams this season were offensive coaches.

 

OFFENSE wins Championships now in the Mahomes era, not defense.  That’s my point.

In the Mahomes era? I'm old enough to remember way back to February 2021, when a top-five defense held the Mahomes-led second ranked offense to zero TDs in the SB.  

[Max Fischer]

Is this parody?

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Billsflyer12 said:

A great defense does NOT matter, a great offense DOES in the Mahomes era.

 

Having an offensive minded Head Coach DOES matter, a defensive Head Coach is a LIABILITY in Mahomes era.

Yeah, defense didn’t matter 2 years ago when tampa rolled them and KC scored 9.  It didn’t matter last year when the rams held Cinci to 20.  It didn’t matter when the pats held the rams.  Or when KC held SF to 20.  Or when the pats held the rams to 3 points.  As if 2023 was the first year in the “Mahomes era”

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

In the Mahomes era? I'm old enough to remember way back to February 2021, when a top-five defense held the Mahomes-led second ranked offense to zero TDs in the SB.  

You can’t make this stuff up

[Dablitzkrieg]

You guys need to give it up.  Edmunds is going to be resigned and there is nothing you trolls can do about it 🤣

[WideNine]

3 hours ago, streetkings01 said:

Buffalo has it backwards ……those resources we put into the dline should’ve been put into the oline. We should’ve been looking for bargain dlineman and spent the 1st and 2nd round picks on O lineman.

 

They did that and whiffed on Ford.

 

We do not have the luxury of too many of those kind of misses.

 

Harsh on Beane and his staff that are doing their best I know, but it is where we are at as a team.

 

Got to nail those early picks.

 

 

 

 

 

[WideNine]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

 

Eagles invested in their Defense as much as anyone this year.  

 

It didn't matter in the Super Bowl.  Lucky for them, they don't have KC, BUF, CIN or even LAC in their way to get there, or they likely would've been exposed earlier.  

 

This is an Offense-driven league and the Playoffs are a different animal..  Give a good DC an average Defense and an elite player on the DL and you're golden to invest heavy around your elite QB.  

 

Giving Edmunds a huge contract after watching that game would an absolute joke.  It's bad enough that Oliver is on this team next year at an 11M cap hit.  

 

 

 

 

I think you are right about the Eagles competition on the road to the SB. 

 

These AFC teams and especially the Chiefs are on another level and force you to play them down to the wire... even if there is only 13 ticks left on the clock.

 

Pretty impressive for an Eagles squad with relatively new QB and coaching nonetheless.

 

They made some mistakes that were pretty costly and that is what happens with QBs (and teams) that have not been there done that already.

 

 

 

 

 

[transplantbillsfan]

The Eagles defense gave up 28 points.  Not 35.

[RenoNVBillsfan]

Hilarious that just giving JA better protection or more speed at WRs will suddenly be the magic wand. It’s coaching folks. JA would still throw the 50 yrd, low % bombs if he had the Dallas Cowboy OL from ‘92-93. McDermott is woefully inept in big games, fails to make adjustments or plainly use common sense. His OC/DC are direct extensions of his ineptitude. Andy Reid and now Zack Taylor will outcoach this guy 9-10 games they play. Watch how the offenses, in particular, play within themselves and take what the defenses give. As for defenses, Frazier has received F ratings the past 2 seasons in the most critical games. He should’ve been fired for abysmal D vs Cincy. Strike that….the Miami game was even worse due to the level of QB he faced.