SB LVll Game Thread: Eagles VS Chiefs

[Jeffbigalls]

Got to watch the 2 best teams in the league play , was a great game.

 

But if you let kc hang around the end result will not be what you want

[Mr. WEO]

5 hours ago, DCOrange said:

The problem is that it’s almost literally impossible to stop unless the QB fumbles the snap or slips and falls. 4th and 1s or 3rd and shorts used to be stressful situations where either team could come out on top. Now success is essentially just determined by which coach is smart enough to run a QB sneak instead of trying to get cute. 

 

Why should this not be the case?   And when hasn't it? You want to reward dumb decisions?  

 

Through Week 8 of this past season, teams at 4th and 1 went for it (with any play at all) only 43.5% of the time.

 

Again, this is a not a problem for the NFL.   No need to pretend it is. What's next?---do away with the extra point because it's "almost literally" impossible to stop (95% success) and make all teams go for 2?

 

 

[starrymessenger]

2 hours ago, streetkings01 said:

I’m fine with teams not letting it get to the point where the refs would need to decide the game. Eagles had a 10 point lead, they gifted the Chiefs 7 points off a fumble. 
 

"It was a holding. I tugged his jersey. I was hoping they would let it slide," he said after Super Bowl LVII.

 

From the mouth of Bradberry, but y’all still arguing the call smh 

Bradbury doesn't write or interpret the rules. The word "holding" when defining the infraction in the rule book is what they call "a term of art" meaning, simply, that it is given a specific meaning. That meaning may or may not reflect the ordinary common conceptions associated with the word. 

Under the definition in the rule book it is indeed possible to "hold" without causing an infraction. Only if the "hold" materially restricts or impedes the receiver is there reason to throw the flag. In looking at the play there is a point where Bradbury has a hold of JuJu's jersey as he breaks laterally (same route as Toney and Moore TDs earlier) and starts to head upfield. But it was more like a pinch and JuJu is a big strong guy. To me it is quite obvious that this did not impede or slow his movement. He takes a full stride. Judging from his reactions, he didn't even know he was held. 
The NFL really has to change the way it manages officiating. I actually feel sorry for the refs. Its not humanly possible to always make the right calls in the middle of live action.

 

[DCOrange]

2 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

Calling a consistent game is what's important.

 

There's a country mile between missing calls and simply not flagging every little ticky tack foul and letting them play, especially when it's so inconsistent.  How the refs are going to call the game is set very early on.  If there are very few flags, even if you see clear instances where there could be one, then the refs are letting them play and it should remain that way unless there's an egregious call that really a no-brainer.

 

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2023/2/13/23597435/holding-call-super-bowl-eagles-chiefs-james-bradberry

It really wasn’t ticky tack though. Juju would have been wide open if Bradberry didn’t grab him. He had completely faked Bradberry out.

 

And everyone keeps saying they were letting all the defensive holding go but I have yet to see an instance of it. They definitely missed an even more blatant pass interference earlier in the game but nobody was really pointing out missed holding calls the rest of the way. Bradberry just got fooled again at the worst time and did what he had to to prevent a touchdown and the refs rightly called him for it. 

[Billz4ever]

3 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

It really wasn’t ticky tack though. Juju would have been wide open if Bradberry didn’t grab him. He had completely faked Bradberry out.

 

And everyone keeps saying they were letting all the defensive holding go but I have yet to see an instance of it. They definitely missed an even more blatant pass interference earlier in the game but nobody was really pointing out missed holding calls the rest of the way. Bradberry just got fooled again at the worst time and did what he had to to prevent a touchdown and the refs rightly called him for it. 

I didn't see it that way.  I didn't see anything Bradberry did as impeding JSS.  Even if he doesn't grab him, I don't think JSS gets separation because he's a slow WR. I don't even think Bradberry needed to do that and he could've recovered.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Billz4ever

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Ya Digg? said:

So you attacking me is cool but me responding with your same tone isn't...got it.  The call didn't decide the Super Bowl - it was one play.  The Eagles had plenty of mistakes in the second half that had more impact than that.  The Chiefs made adjustments, the Eagles froze with 30 minutes to go.  If you want to include the refs in the loss fine, but to take away all blame from the Eagles is irresponsible on your part.  The Eagles lost that game, plain and simple

There are several reasons why the eagles lost.  Say that.  But don’t say the penalty didn’t decide the game.  It absolutely decided the game.  It’s just not the only reason the eagles lost.  Two different things 

[DCOrange]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Why should this not be the case?   And when hasn't it? You want to reward dumb decisions?  

 

Through Week 8 of this past season, teams at 4th and 1 went for it (with any play at all) only 43.5% of the time.

 

Again, this is a not a problem for the NFL.   No need to pretend it is. What's next?---do away with the extra point because it's "almost literally" impossible to stop (95% success) and make all teams go for 2?

 

 

The NFL literally made the extra point more difficult because of this. 

[Ya Digg?]

1 hour ago, Billz4ever said:

Where did I attack you?  You're reading things that aren't there in order to try and justify your calling people bitter without knowing anything about them or which team they supported, which in this case, it was neither.

 

That call most certainly did decide the Super Bowl.  Rather than it being 4th down and the Chiefs kick a FG, then kicking off to Philly with time left and a timeout to either tie or possibly even take the lead, it gave KC a first down on a 3rd and 8 and allowed KC to run out the clock and kick the ball with basically no time left.  This is a fact and it is indisputable.

Go back and read your earlier statements, but it’s fine I’m good with it. Again the bigger thing is you are putting the loss on the refs not on the Eagles. It was a penalty, that is also a fact. It was definitely a call that if the Bills were involved and it went against them everyone here would be crucifying the refs and I’d they didn’t get the call everyone here would be complaining that the Bills didn’t get the call on an obvious penalty. 
 

I was rooting for the Eagles as well, didn’t want to see the Chiefs win, but the Chiefs were the better team. The Eagles choked that game away. The defense made no stops in the second half, the offense sent 3 and out right after they lost the lead, the special teams gave up a huge punt return. That’s what cost them the game, not the penalty call, and that’s also a fact 

[Billz4ever]

4 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

Go back and read your earlier statements, but it’s fine I’m good with it. Again the bigger thing is you are putting the loss on the refs not on the Eagles. It was a penalty, that is also a fact. It was definitely a call that if the Bills were involved and it went against them everyone here would be crucifying the refs and I’d they didn’t get the call everyone here would be complaining that the Bills didn’t get the call on an obvious penalty. 
 

I was rooting for the Eagles as well, didn’t want to see the Chiefs win, but the Chiefs were the better team. The Eagles choked that game away. The defense made no stops in the second half, the offense sent 3 and out right after they lost the lead, the special teams gave up a huge punt return. That’s what cost them the game, not the penalty call, and that’s also a fact 

The penalty allowed the Chiefs to run out the clock, therefore it ended the game.  It's as simple as that.

 

 

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Why should this not be the case?   And when hasn't it? You want to reward dumb decisions?  

 

Through Week 8 of this past season, teams at 4th and 1 went for it (with any play at all) only 43.5% of the time.

 

Again, this is a not a problem for the NFL.   No need to pretend it is. What's next?---do away with the extra point because it's "almost literally" impossible to stop (95% success) and make all teams go for 2?

 

 

 I had no idea this anti-QB sneak push campaign was even a thing.  Are there really a large number of people that think this is a problem?  Sheesh.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Billz4ever

[Ya Digg?]

2 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

The penalty allowed the Chiefs to run out the clock, therefore it ended the game.  It's as simple as that.

Last question then we can both move on-do you put any responsibility on the Eagles for losing that game? At this point that’s all I wanna know

[mannc]

16 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

For the "refs are in for KC" crowd....in tonights game and the Cincy game...KC had TD's taken back by review or penalty.  Why if you are fixing it for KC do you take away TD's?  That Goddeart 3rd and 16 catch...could have been overtrurned...we've all seen worse than that called a no catch...but it wasn't.  KC had Jalen Hurtz stopped on one of those sneaks...and the whistle doesn't blow forever...and they finally push him over the line....

 

The Refs suck.  They suck consistantly for everyone.  I can name a ton of calls that didn't go KC's way, bad missed calls.  Bad calls made.  I can do that for every team in the league...we can all agree the officiating is terrible.  But this fix crap is something else...

Look, what everyone hates about last night’s call is that the game was set up perfectly for an all-time great finish and it ended up being a total dud because of that stupid call.  We can argue about whether it was a penalty or not (it was a bad call, but there have been worse), but the timing was absolutely inexcusable.  No one—not even KC fans, I bet—wanted to see the game end like that.

[Zerovoltz]

3 minutes ago, mannc said:

Look, what everyone hates about last night’s call is that the game was set up perfectly for an all-time great finish and it ended up being a total dud because of that stupid call.  We can argue about whether it was a penalty or not (it was a bad call, but there have been worse), but the timing was absolutely inexcusable.  No one—not even KC fans, I bet—wanted to see the game end like that.

 

I'd have prefferred they completed the pass, got a first down and then ran the clock down and kick.  Avoid all this officials suck talk.  

 

Why is no one really actually upset at the player who got a big handful jersey right in front of the ref?

 

In the 2018 AFCCG, LATE in the game, with KC leading by 4, Dee Ford lined up offside.  Brady threw an INT.  Ford didn't have any impact on the play at all.  The INT would have secured the game and KC would have gone to the SB.  It wasn't the first time Ford had lined up offside that game, but it was the first time he was flagged for it.   It was a penalty.  He did it.  The ref saw and flagged it.  IT changed the game.  Why not swallow the whistle?

 

It was called correctly.  No one was pissed at the ref.  Everyone was mad at Ford for committing a penalty.

 

The Eagles DB got a handful of jersey and got a good tug on it.  He admitted after the game he did it.  The ref saw it and flagged it.

 

Some will say "let the players decide the outcome!"  Which players?  The ones not committing penalties or the ones committing penalties.? 

[mannc]

17 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

 

I'd have prefferred they completed the pass, got a first down and then ran the clock down and kick.  Avoid all this officials suck talk.  

 

Why is no one really actually upset at the player who got a big handful jersey right in front of the ref?

 

In the 2018 AFCCG, LATE in the game, with KC leading by 4, Dee Ford lined up offside.  Brady threw an INT.  Ford didn't have any impact on the play at all.  The INT would have secured the game and KC would have gone to the SB.  It wasn't the first time Ford had lined up offside that game, but it was the first time he was flagged for it.   It was a penalty.  He did it.  The ref saw and flagged it.  IT changed the game.  Why not swallow the whistle?

 

It was called correctly.  No one was pissed at the ref.  Everyone was mad at Ford for committing a penalty.

 

The Eagles DB got a handful of jersey and got a good tug on it.  He admitted after the game he did it.  The ref saw it and flagged it.

 

Some will say "let the players decide the outcome!"  Which players?  The ones not committing penalties or the ones committing penalties.? 

I'll never understand this...I'm convinced that someone from the league got to Bradberry and told him to fall on his sword. No DB in his right mind would ever admit that that was a hold. 

[Zerovoltz]

4 minutes ago, mannc said:

I'll never understand this...I'm convinced that someone from the league got to Bradberry and told him to fall on his sword. No DB in his right mind would ever admit that that was a hold. 

No reason to lie about it....it was clearly a hold.  Easy to see the jersey being pulled.  

 

 

[starrymessenger]

26 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

 

I'd have prefferred they completed the pass, got a first down and then ran the clock down and kick.  Avoid all this officials suck talk.  

 

Why is no one really actually upset at the player who got a big handful jersey right in front of the ref?

 

In the 2018 AFCCG, LATE in the game, with KC leading by 4, Dee Ford lined up offside.  Brady threw an INT.  Ford didn't have any impact on the play at all.  The INT would have secured the game and KC would have gone to the SB.  It wasn't the first time Ford had lined up offside that game, but it was the first time he was flagged for it.   It was a penalty.  He did it.  The ref saw and flagged it.  IT changed the game.  Why not swallow the whistle?

 

It was called correctly.  No one was pissed at the ref.  Everyone was mad at Ford for committing a penalty.

 

The Eagles DB got a handful of jersey and got a good tug on it.  He admitted after the game he did it.  The ref saw it and flagged it.

 

Some will say "let the players decide the outcome!"  Which players?  The ones not committing penalties or the ones committing penalties.? 

Problem is having a handful of Jersey does not mean that JuJu was held within the meaning of the rule. If just grabbing a Jersey was enuf to make out the infraction, the rule would not also require that the hold materially obstruct the receiver. JuJu’s movement was not impeded or obstructed. 

7 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

No reason to lie about it....it was clearly a hold.  Easy to see the jersey being pulled.  

 

 

The jersey was “held” consistent with the ordinary dictionary definition of the word. But that in itself is not sufficient to establish the infraction, except in refs mind.

[jkeerie]

Considering this was a 38 to 35 win...a close high-scoring game...why did I feel it was one of the least exciting games I've watched all year?  Yes...I was pulling for the Eagles and the Chiefs won with a 4th qtr penalty allowing them to run out the clock (and technically it was a penalty but....)  The game left me flat.  The game was won by Reid's scheme.  No excitement at all.  It was like...meh.

 

So, am I the only non-Chiefs/Eagles fan who came away feeling that way?

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, DCOrange said:

The NFL literally made the extra point more difficult because of this. 

 

How has that worked out?  95%....

 

Another solution looking for a problem.

1 hour ago, mannc said:

I'll never understand this...I'm convinced that someone from the league got to Bradberry and told him to fall on his sword. No DB in his right mind would ever admit that that was a hold. 

 

 

lol why would he agree to that?  The guy held him.  It'a a penalty.  People on crying that refs should have let it slide.

 

 

They already missed a hold on Eagles D in the first half.  Because of that, they are supposed to let every hold go?

 

Weird logic.
 

[mannc]

20 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

How has that worked out?  95%....

 

Another solution looking for a problem.

 

 

lol why would he agree to that?  The guy held him.  It'a a penalty.  People on crying that refs should have let it slide.

 

 

They already missed a hold on Eagles D in the first half.  Because of that, they are supposed to let every hold go?

 

Weird logic.
 

No, it was not a hold.  

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, mannc said:

No, it was not a hold.  

 

 

Of course it was.  The guy who got caught holding says he held.

 

Go fight him..

[Thrivefourfive]

Don’t call that! Bradberry said it was because it was and he didn’t want a fine and he wants to move on, 

 

But the ref just can’t call it. It was so soft, and so out of place for the flow of the game. And it absolutely ended the Super Bowl. Don’t call that foul.