SB LVll Game Thread: Eagles VS Chiefs

[streetkings01]

9 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

Oh, this is going be one of those conversations where you ask questions that nobody is disputing.

 

Question...if they haven't called it all night and are letting them play, should they then throw a flag on a weak holding call that would decide the game?

If it was holding ….. yes. 
 

If that hold wasn’t called and the Chiefs lost we’d be hearing today how the refs missed a holding call that lost KC the game. People need to stop focusing on the timing of the call and focus on the actual call. A penalty was committed and the refs did their job……you may not agree with it, but the right call was made. Be mad at Bradberry for going for the weakest whip/zig route I’ve  ever seen which caused him to hold. I’ve coached receivers at the high school level and that route was garbage lol 

[Billz4ever]

5 minutes ago, streetkings01 said:

If it was holding ….. yes. 
 

If that hold wasn’t called and the Chiefs lost we’d be hearing today how the refs missed a holding call that lost KC the game. People need to stop focusing on the timing of the call and focus on the actual call. A penalty was committed and the refs did their job……you may not agree with it, but the right call was made. Be mad at Bradberry for going for the weakest whip/zig route I’ve  ever seen which caused him to hold. I’ve coached receivers at the high school level and that route was garbage lol 

So, you're perfectly fine with the inconstancy in officiating is what you're saying here.

[DCOrange]

4 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

So, you're perfectly fine with the inconstancy in officiating is what you're saying here.

I don’t think anyone is perfectly fine with having missed calls, but I think it’s pretty fair and logical to say that the goal should be to limit missed calls as much as possible. Not calling holding against Philly at the end because you missed another holding against Philly earlier would be pretty stupid IMO. 

[Billz4ever]

9 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

I don’t think anyone is perfectly fine with having missed calls, but I think it’s pretty fair and logical to say that the goal should be to limit missed calls as much as possible. Not calling holding against Philly at the end because you missed another holding against Philly earlier would be pretty stupid IMO. 

Calling a consistent game is what's important.

 

There's a country mile between missing calls and simply not flagging every little ticky tack foul and letting them play, especially when it's so inconsistent.  How the refs are going to call the game is set very early on.  If there are very few flags, even if you see clear instances where there could be one, then the refs are letting them play and it should remain that way unless there's an egregious call that really a no-brainer.

 

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2023/2/13/23597435/holding-call-super-bowl-eagles-chiefs-james-bradberry

Edited February 13, 2023 by Billz4ever

[Solomon Grundy]

Anybody else think Nick Bolton should've been MVP?

[Billz4ever]

2 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Anybody else think Nick Bolton should've been MVP?

9 tackles (8 solo) and the TD on the Hurts' unforced error.

 

Had he had an INT in there or another fumble recovery, maybe.  But you know the thought of it going to anyone but Mahomes never once crossed their minds.

[Brand J]

11 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I think the Eagles defense played the Chiefs all wrong. They played them like the 2021 Chiefs where you had to drop everyone back into deep zones because of the threat of Tyreek Hill. This year they don't have a player like that so defenses have learned you can cheat more towards the short and intermediate areas without getting burned too often. The Eagles instead called an extremely vanilla and easy to dissect defense. Always rush 4 and drop everyone into their zone. Reminded me of our plan against the Bengals. That's way too easy for an elite QB and play caller, especially with an offensive line as good as the Chiefs. Because of this vanilla defense the Chiefs kept winning on 1st and 2nd down which made it difficult for the Eagles pass rush to ever find a rhythm. Andy Reid schooled his former team.

Very Leslie Frazier-like. And just like Frazier the Eagles D has struggled against any decent QB they’ve faced - except Trevor Lawrence who repeatedly coughed the ball up.

[PrimeTime101]

5 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

So, you're perfectly fine with the inconstancy in officiating is what you're saying here.

 

12 minutes ago, streetkings01 said:

If it was holding ….. yes. 
 

If that hold wasn’t called and the Chiefs lost we’d be hearing today how the refs missed a holding call that lost KC the game. People need to stop focusing on the timing of the call and focus on the actual call. A penalty was committed and the refs did their job……you may not agree with it, but the right call was made. Be mad at Bradberry for going for the weakest whip/zig route I’ve  ever seen which caused him to hold. I’ve coached receivers at the high school level and that route was garbage lol 

 

Guys Define hold? How its written in the books

grasp, carry, or support with one's hands. keep or detain

 

How the NFL defines a Hold

Use his hands or arms to materially restrict an opponent or alter the defender's path or angle of pursuit.

 

Lets break this down more ok?

Did he change the WR's path? NO

Was in any way the WR restricted in its path? NO

Did the WR have to adjust his angle do to any of this? NO

 

Did he grasp even for a single second?

well lets take a CLOSE LOOK

 

OH WAIT! but this was NOT where the holding was.... BLEEP 

Try this video.

Play it. Slow Mode .25 one second mark, defenders right arm? Was that the part of the play they called holding?

 

interesting twist...

 

Ticky tack either way plays like this at this time of game? The refs need to let the players play man.

[Ya Digg?]

4 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

Nonsense.  You can't sit there and tell me that was a hold, when they never called that all night and you can certainly find multiple examples of it happening and much worse. Refs must be consistent.

 

You're obviously OK with referees determining the outcomes of games.  I'm not.

 

 

You're obviously sounding incredibly bitter - Bradberry himself even said it was a hold.  Was it the refs fault that they gave up the easy touchdown to Toney?  Or the easy one to Moore?  Or the Pacheco touchdown?  How about the 60+ punt return?  You can blame it on the refs if you want, but it wasn't the refs fault they lost

[Billz4ever]

22 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

 

 

Guys Define hold? How its written in the books

grasp, carry, or support with one's hands. keep or detain

 

How the NFL defines a Hold

Use his hands or arms to materially restrict an opponent or alter the defender's path or angle of pursuit.

 

Lets break this down more ok?

Did he change the WR's path? NO

Was in any way the WR restricted in its path? NO

Did the WR have to adjust his angle do to any of this? NO

 

Did he grasp even for a single second?

well lets take a CLOSE LOOK

 

OH WAIT! but this was NOT where the holding was.... BLEEP 

Try this video.

Play it. Slow Mode .25 one second mark, defenders right arm? Was that the part of the play they called holding?

 

interesting twist...

 

Ticky tack either way plays like this at this time of game? The refs need to let the players play man.

Great post.

 

Great article here too.

 

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2023/2/13/23597435/holding-call-super-bowl-eagles-chiefs-james-bradberry

 

 

 

 

21 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

You're obviously sounding incredibly bitter - Bradberry himself even said it was a hold.  Was it the refs fault that they gave up the easy touchdown to Toney?  Or the easy one to Moore?  Or the Pacheco touchdown?  How about the 60+ punt return?  You can blame it on the refs if you want, but it wasn't the refs fault they lost

I didn't even care who won let's stop pretending to read minds here.

 

A weak holding call decided the Super Bowl.  I'm sorry you feel obliged to attack people and call them bitter because they're frustrated seeing referees inject themselves in the outcome of games.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Billz4ever

[streetkings01]

15 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

 

 

Guys Define hold? How its written in the books

grasp, carry, or support with one's hands. keep or detain

 

How the NFL defines a Hold

Use his hands or arms to materially restrict an opponent or alter the defender's path or angle of pursuit.

 

Lets break this down more ok?

Did he change the WR's path? NO

Was in any way the WR restricted in its path? NO

Did the WR have to adjust his angle do to any of this? NO

 

Did he grasp even for a single second?

well lets take a CLOSE LOOK

 

OH WAIT! but this was NOT where the holding was.... BLEEP 

Try this video.

Play it. Slow Mode .25 one second mark, defenders right arm? Was that the part of the play they called holding?

 

interesting twist...

 

Ticky tack either way plays like this at this time of game? The refs need to let the players play man.

We must be looking at 2 different things because that video shows 2 holds ….one on the route and one on the release lmfao 

 

He has a fist full of jersey on Ju-Ju’s right waist and then grabs his left waist so he can stay with the WR…..it’s obvious. The first grab he actually turns Ju-Ju 😂

Edited February 13, 2023 by streetkings01

[PrimeTime101]

3 minutes ago, streetkings01 said:

We must be looking at 2 different things because that video shows 2 holds ….one on the route and one on the release lmfao 

STOP IT!

Did he change the WR's path? NO

Was in any way the WR restricted in its path? NO

Did the WR have to adjust his angle do to any of this? NO

 

those are the 3 things Refs are taught.

Restrict in movement

Restrict in path

Force different path.

 

it was a ticky tack call and that second hold as you say it? WAS NOT A HOLD... just STOP IT!

[streetkings01]

1 minute ago, PrimeTime101 said:

STOP IT!

Did he change the WR's path? NO

Was in any way the WR restricted in its path? NO

Did the WR have to adjust his angle do to any of this? NO

 

those are the 3 things Refs are taught.

Restrict in movement

Restrict in path

Force different path.

 

it was a ticky tack call and that second hold as you say it? WAS NOT A HOLD... just STOP IT!

Why you so mad that I don’t agree with you? I’m allowed to have an opinion, just so happens my opinion and what I saw is what the referee and the DB who committed the foul saw. 🤷🏽‍♂️

[PromoTheRobot]

This Super Bowl had the highest percentage of offense generated by the ground game (.360) since 2007 (.423.) Would you had thought that would happen with two QBs who were #1 and #2 in MVP voting?

[starrymessenger]

28 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

 

 

Guys Define hold? How its written in the books

grasp, carry, or support with one's hands. keep or detain

 

How the NFL defines a Hold

Use his hands or arms to materially restrict an opponent or alter the defender's path or angle of pursuit.

 

Lets break this down more ok?

Did he change the WR's path? NO

Was in any way the WR restricted in its path? NO

Did the WR have to adjust his angle do to any of this? NO

 

Did he grasp even for a single second?

well lets take a CLOSE LOOK

 

OH WAIT! but this was NOT where the holding was.... BLEEP 

Try this video.

Play it. Slow Mode .25 one second mark, defenders right arm? Was that the part of the play they called holding?

 

interesting twist...

 

Ticky tack either way plays like this at this time of game? The refs need to let the players play man.

So according to how the NFL defines a hold it's the use of hands or arms to materially restrict etc...What the rule maker is saying here is that holding is often a judgement call and he or she is instructing the referee to use his judgement in deciding whether the use of hands or arms was material in impacting the result of the play. In other words, it is absolutely permitted for a DB to use his hands and arms, which means having them on the receiver, provided he did not materially obstruct. I think it's fair to say that a lot of so-called "ticky-tak" holding calls are in fact properly not holds as defined. Interpreting the holding infraction this way also better conforms with other, similar rules like the one that permits even material obstruction within 5 yards of the LOS.
In looking at the play it looks to me like JuJu was not materially impeded. I don't think he was getting to where that ball landed. PM may have jumped up and down but JuJu wasn't calling for a flag. He knew the ball was overthrown or, as some have suggested, he just ran a terrible route..

What this amounts to to me is a very bad exercise of judgement/discretion by the referee, a proper exercise being mandated by the rules. But what more can you expect from a guy whose day job is selling car batteries. I hope for his sake he's good at that.

Edited February 13, 2023 by starrymessenger

[C.Biscuit97]

14 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

This Super Bowl had the highest percentage of offense generated by the ground game (.360) since 2007 (.423.) Would you had thought that would happen with two QBs who were #1 and #2 in MVP voting?

The run game is opened up by good qbs. Teams can’t load the box against KC and Philly. It’s also why we do need another home run hitter on the outside. 
 

that said, what a sad bitter thread haha. Some of you had some miserable SB party. Last play probably didn’t need to be called but KC is probably winning either way. Mahomes was gutty as hell and Hurts was throwing dimes all over the field. 
 

great game and we have some work go do. 

[Buffarukus]

1 hour ago, streetkings01 said:

If it was holding ….. yes. 
 

If that hold wasn’t called and the Chiefs lost we’d be hearing today how the refs missed a holding call that lost KC the game. People need to stop focusing on the timing of the call and focus on the actual call. A penalty was committed and the refs did their job……you may not agree with it, but the right call was made. Be mad at Bradberry for going for the weakest whip/zig route I’ve  ever seen which caused him to hold. I’ve coached receivers at the high school level and that route was garbage lol 

 

that argument can be made on every play. you focus in i guarantee jersey tugging. illegal blocks in the back, push offs, all sorts of penalties are made which is why the refs usually establish what and what is not going to be tolerate during the coarse of the game. some teams run clear pick plays early just to see what they can get away with but the players adjust as the game goes on. if jersey tugs on change of direction were of high standard then your saying noone did that all game?? we both know thats not true so the question is why there? 3rd down game literally on the line and a ticky tack penalty that i don't believe changed the outcome. mahomes overthrew it whether that happened or not. 

 

you don't call that. it wasn't agregious, it wasn't outcome driven and it wasn't called all game..but it decides the game. games can easily be won and lost with this standard of...well it was a penalty and they decided to start calling it in the most meaningful situations suddenly. good call. 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Buffarukus

[PrimeTime101]

53 minutes ago, streetkings01 said:

Why you so mad that I don’t agree with you? I’m allowed to have an opinion, just so happens my opinion and what I saw is what the referee and the DB who committed the foul saw. 🤷🏽‍♂️

then your blind.

 

not mad

 

troll on buddy  

[Ya Digg?]

1 hour ago, Billz4ever said:

Great post.

 

Great article here too.

 

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2023/2/13/23597435/holding-call-super-bowl-eagles-chiefs-james-bradberry

 

 

 

 

I didn't even care who won let's stop pretending to read minds here.

 

A weak holding call decided the Super Bowl.  I'm sorry you feel obliged to attack people and call them bitter because they're frustrated seeing referees inject themselves in the outcome of games.

So you attacking me is cool but me responding with your same tone isn't...got it.  The call didn't decide the Super Bowl - it was one play.  The Eagles had plenty of mistakes in the second half that had more impact than that.  The Chiefs made adjustments, the Eagles froze with 30 minutes to go.  If you want to include the refs in the loss fine, but to take away all blame from the Eagles is irresponsible on your part.  The Eagles lost that game, plain and simple

[Billz4ever]

7 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

So you attacking me is cool but me responding with your same tone isn't...got it.  The call didn't decide the Super Bowl - it was one play.  The Eagles had plenty of mistakes in the second half that had more impact than that.  The Chiefs made adjustments, the Eagles froze with 30 minutes to go.  If you want to include the refs in the loss fine, but to take away all blame from the Eagles is irresponsible on your part.  The Eagles lost that game, plain and simple

Where did I attack you?  You're reading things that aren't there in order to try and justify your calling people bitter without knowing anything about them or which team they supported, which in this case, it was neither.

 

That call most certainly did decide the Super Bowl.  Rather than it being 4th down and the Chiefs kick a FG, then kicking off to Philly with time left and a timeout to either tie or possibly even take the lead, it gave KC a first down on a 3rd and 8 and allowed KC to run out the clock and kick the ball with basically no time left.  This is a fact and it is indisputable.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Billz4ever