This place has become poisonous

[Teddy KGB]

On 2/11/2023 at 12:10 PM, John from Riverside said:

I totally agree with you
 

The people that are ruining it by their constant bitching, and not being happy about the historic moment, should take a chill pill

what historic moment ? 
 

they got pantsed by a team with a backup OL after drafting defense High over and over again 

major L for Beane 

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Teddy KGB

[Behindenemylines]

Hey I’ve done my share of complaining because we should be in the Super Bowl.   We have the talent to be there and the QB to win multiple titles. As fans we see some glaring issues and past performance can be an indicator of future success. 
 

1) defensive is an issue. Say what you want about injuries but that’s where coaching and plays a huge role and we come up short

 

2) offensive Line. If Josh had either of those lines from last night it’s a totally different season.  
 

3). Josh needs another weapon to throw to.  Full stop IMO

 

4) run game/game plan. Again it’s coaching    We have talent but the timing of the use of the run seems suspect.

 

nome of these are difficult for fans to see-even guys like me who aren’t total XO guys.  How is it so difficult for our Top 5 head coach and wizard GM  to see.   
 

Therein lies the frustration with most fans 

[Billsfan1972]

On 2/11/2023 at 11:52 AM, I'm Spartacus said:

I understand the OP comments. Seems like the "poisonous" label come more from missing out on the super bowl, suspect coaching, bad drafting etc. For me the poisonous comment stems more from (a lot) of the board members sniping at one another. This board is supposed to be fun and to share thoughts about the Bills and football. Too many posters are determined to prove their thoughts and comments are always right, even if it means in-fighting with other members. Please loose the always right attitudes everyone! It's keeping many of us from wanting to share our thoughts in a fun, respectful way.

And I will say it is one-sided with those generally very positive about the Bills, particularly McD supporters going after those who are more down on him.  

 

Yes there are a lot of passionate fans and some do post outlandish comments, but say anything negative about McD and hammer that point and you will be deluged with negative posts.

 

Conversely post positive and complimentary thread and just take a look at how many positive reactions there are. 

 

Yes I am specifically "outing" eball, how supports much about the organization and has a 90%+ "approval" rating.

 

Just this thread is here to suss out posters deemed "negative".

Edited February 13, 2023 by Billsfan1972

[Trogdor]

On 2/11/2023 at 4:37 PM, strive_for_five_guy said:

So are we in the midst of hard times or good times right now?

Yeah this would make sense in 10-15 years when the kids who have only known some success are on here. Hell, the older guys on here have seen better times than most. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Solution?

1. Crack a window.

2. Stop serving so many legumes!

[Trogdor]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And I will say it is one-sided with those generally very positive about the Bills, particularly McD supporters going after those who are more down on him.

There is also a contingent of people who do the same with Josh Allen. 

[PBF81]

Quote

This place has become poisonous

 

That's funny, so has the coaching on this team, and the drafting if we want to go there too.  Strangely, I'm sure that there's a connection.  

[Billsfan1972]

2 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

There is also a contingent of people who do the same with Josh Allen. 

Because I'm so invested and a fan of Allen, I completely ignore those threads. 

 

Does Allen have some warts?  Yes, but since I question McD and place blame on him, I consider them all correctable.   

[Trogdor]

14 hours ago, The Wiz said:

Good fan: "This team did a lot this year and overcame a bunch of injuries and emotional obstacles."

What a bar lol. This is basically saying a good fan finds excuses for not reaching the pre-season goal. Every team deals with injuries and I get the Hamlin situation was different, but my god, they were floundering before that. People also use the Kim Pegula situation like that was wearing down the players lol c'mon. You can be a good fan and still believe things need to change. The roster on paper might look ready, but the product we saw was not.

[corta765]

On 2/11/2023 at 11:19 AM, Dr. K said:

I've been a member of this community since the very beginning, in 2001. 

 

Through the depths of the drought, I've never seen so much whining and anger and lashing out as what goes on daily on this board right now. Not everybody is guilty of this—there are a good number of eminently sane people who post here frequently—but the percentage of people acting like three-year-olds having temper tantrums is as high or higher than it has ever been.

 

I went away for the last weeks since the loss to the Bengals thinking that of course people are going to act out their disappointment; it's natural, I thought, let them get it out of their system. But it's as bad this morning as ever. I've tried blocking the worst offenders but the list would be too long to comprehend at this point. If the Bills were to take one fifth of the hysterical suggestions that are made every hour on this board, they would be out of the playoffs for the next twenty years. 

 

I realize this is likely my problem, not yours. So I'm giving it a pass at least until the draft, and maybe until training camp.

 

I hope some of you will get out of the house now and then and breathe some fresh air. 

 

Dude I am with you. I login right now and its like a bunch of teenagers that are melting down. Many of the posts are nothing constructive or they are duplicates of the same crap. You can have a well reasoned argument for both side of the coin but the anything remotely positive is destroyed with the anger of a 1000 suns. "We have Josh Allen he is really good and top 3 in the league" , response "It doesn't matter he won't be the same, we are wasting him, he won't even beat Mahomes etc". It is freaking insane. Also we have the FA and the Draft and camp then training camp for the 2023 team to form. There are a billion things that will change the outlook in that time.

 

I am 100% in for objective criticism and with the way the team finished it is warranted. But were a universe past that with a lot of people.

[H2o]

30 minutes ago, corta765 said:

 

Dude I am with you. I login right now and its like a bunch of teenagers that are melting down. Many of the posts are nothing constructive or they are duplicates of the same crap. You can have a well reasoned argument for both side of the coin but the anything remotely positive is destroyed with the anger of a 1000 suns. "We have Josh Allen he is really good and top 3 in the league" , response "It doesn't matter he won't be the same, we are wasting him, he won't even beat Mahomes etc". It is freaking insane. Also we have the FA and the Draft and camp then training camp for the 2023 team to form. There are a billion things that will change the outlook in that time.

 

I am 100% in for objective criticism and with the way the team finished it is warranted. But were a universe past that with a lot of people.

God save us, everyone, will we burn inside the fires of a thousand suns - The Catalyst - Nice 

[PrimeTime101]

17 hours ago, Augie said:

 

Sorry, but I have to disagree to some extent. I think 95% of the complaining comes from the 5% who feel the “need to vent”. They do it repeatedly with redundant threads because everyone thinks their take is just a little bit different, and they like attention. They reword the titles to make it look different, but they all want their own personal complaint forum, when the same thought is already out there a dozen ways. They just don’t want their personal thought getting lost in an existing thread, it seems.  

 

NOW, do NOT get me wrong! There ARE things that need fixing. There are things that are fine to vent about. But we can beat that poor dead horse deader than a horse should ever be. 

 

Complaining about the complainers is but a grain of sand on the beach compared to the redundant complaints about the Bills FO, coaches and players. To me, it’s OK to flip the coin sometimes and point that out. I know many will disagree, and that’s fine. I’m not the Bills Booster Club president, I just like reason and balance. 

I think we can share a middle ground that, no matter the type of complaining is complaining no matter the topic. . Do i agree with OP? yes! But is complaining about complaining going to stop it? Nah. year after year at this time of year its same thing.

Edited February 13, 2023 by PrimeTime101

[The Wiz]

2 hours ago, Trogdor said:

What a bar lol. This is basically saying a good fan finds excuses for not reaching the pre-season goal. Every team deals with injuries and I get the Hamlin situation was different, but my god, they were floundering before that. People also use the Kim Pegula situation like that was wearing down the players lol c'mon. You can be a good fan and still believe things need to change. The roster on paper might look ready, but the product we saw was not.

Good job cherry picking that part of my entire post to criticize.  Was it really that hard to understand what I was getting at?

[Trogdor]

5 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Good job cherry picking that part of my entire post to criticize.  Was it really that hard to understand what I was getting at?

Cherry picking lol your whole point is that you assign who is a good fan and who isn't. That's the whole problem with this thread, people deciding who can and can't be a fan based on their own reactions to events. 

[Shaw66]

3 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

That's the whole problem with this thread, people deciding who can and can't be a fan based on their own reactions to events. 

Well, I've largely stayed out of this thread because a lot it is as you say.   But it started out making a different point, or at least I thought so.  The point was that a lot of fans seemed to be taking extremely negative positions about a team that is awfully close to being a great team in the league.  It's one thing to have intelligent discussions about what needs to be done to get better; it's another to talk about blowing things up, getting rid of coaches or the GM, etc.   

 

If we could poll 32 owners and ask them if they didn't have the HC, GM, and/or QB they have, which one in the league would they like, McDermott, Beane, and Allen would be in everyone's top 10 and probably in most cases, in the top 5.   So, complaining about how this team is being run in terms that suggest it's some kind of massive failure just doesn't make sense to me. 

[BFLO]

Posters are on a spectrum.

 

Doomer: Wants to fire everyone, trade everyone away and start a rebuild, no matter the results. Always thinks the Bills will fail without sweeping changes. 

 

Rational Middle: somewhere on the spectrum between Doomer and Billiever depending on the actual and expected results. 

 

"Billiever": Thinks if they just have blind faith and "Billieve" hard enough that they'll be rewarded with eternal super bowls. Defends the Bills with religious zealotry and fervor. "Trust the process" is like heroin to them. Thinks that anyone who criticizes the Bills at all is a 100% full doomer. 

 

 

 

Most of the prolific posters here either are, or are close to pure "Billievers", and they're upset that the rational middle is currently swaying towards doom after 3-5 years of optimism. 

[PrimeTime101]

13 minutes ago, BFLO said:

Posters are on a spectrum.

 

Doomer: Wants to fire everyone, trade everyone away and start a rebuild, no matter the results. Always thinks the Bills will fail without sweeping changes. 

 

Rational Middle: somewhere on the spectrum between Doomer and Billiever depending on the actual and expected results. 

 

"Billiever": Thinks if they just have blind faith and "Billieve" hard enough that they'll be rewarded with eternal super bowls. Defends the Bills with religious zealotry and fervor. "Trust the process" is like heroin to them. Thinks that anyone who criticizes the Bills at all is a 100% full doomer. 

 

 

 

Most of the prolific posters here either are, or are close to pure "Billievers", and they're upset that the rational middle is currently swaying towards doom after 3-5 years of optimism. 

Hater, Rational minded, Blind Faith   IS how i look at this. good writeup 

[Alphadawg7]

On 2/11/2023 at 8:19 AM, Dr. K said:

I've been a member of this community since the very beginning, in 2001. 

 

Through the depths of the drought, I've never seen so much whining and anger and lashing out as what goes on daily on this board right now. Not everybody is guilty of this—there are a good number of eminently sane people who post here frequently—but the percentage of people acting like three-year-olds having temper tantrums is as high or higher than it has ever been.

 

I went away for the last weeks since the loss to the Bengals thinking that of course people are going to act out their disappointment; it's natural, I thought, let them get it out of their system. But it's as bad this morning as ever. I've tried blocking the worst offenders but the list would be too long to comprehend at this point. If the Bills were to take one fifth of the hysterical suggestions that are made every hour on this board, they would be out of the playoffs for the next twenty years. 

 

I realize this is likely my problem, not yours. So I'm giving it a pass at least until the draft, and maybe until training camp.

 

I hope some of you will get out of the house now and then and breathe some fresh air. 

 

There is a difference of people rationally discussing the honest things that need to improve vs a total hysterical flip out and declaring the end before the new season even begins.  

 

I agree, the board was impossible to be around the week after the game.  I myself took some time to let the disappointment calm down before I came back to what was surely going to be a cess pool of negativity...which it was.  

 

But I do think that has died down quite a bit and there are a lot more quality conversations going on now regarding this team strengths and weaknesses.  The overly negative crowd is never going away, but I think their nonsense is starting to get drowned out by better convos lately.  

 

This team will always be a contender with an elite player like Josh and a GM committed to building a winner.  Doesn't mean all the right decisions, plays, etc will be just right, but we will be someone to contend with for the foreseeable future.  The question is what is keeping this team from getting over that hump and what can we do to change that before other teams keep improving around us as they try and over take us.  

 

Those are all fair questions heading into an offseason where we were 13-3 (8 points from being undefeated) and then laid down like we were the 7th seed despite being at home, with motivation (Hamlin), in bad weather (allegedly an advantage for us), with our opponent having a decimated OL.  We can't keep doing the same things and expecting different results.  

[The Wiz]

1 hour ago, Trogdor said:

Cherry picking lol your whole point is that you assign who is a good fan and who isn't. That's the whole problem with this thread, people deciding who can and can't be a fan based on their own reactions to events. 

No I didn't.  I made an example.

 

If you read the whole thing you would have seen that my point was there are people at the far end of spectrums that are the minority but usually project their opinions the loudest on here which is what causes much of the hostility (whether they are being positive about the team or negative) and the rest that are critical of the team and can have logical discussion but you go ahead and think what you want.

Edited February 13, 2023 by The Wiz

[corta765]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

Well, I've largely stayed out of this thread because a lot it is as you say.   But it started out making a different point, or at least I thought so.  The point was that a lot of fans seemed to be taking extremely negative positions about a team that is awfully close to being a great team in the league.  It's one thing to have intelligent discussions about what needs to be done to get better; it's another to talk about blowing things up, getting rid of coaches or the GM, etc.   

 

If we could poll 32 owners and ask them if they didn't have the HC, GM, and/or QB they have, which one in the league would they like, McDermott, Beane, and Allen would be in everyone's top 10 and probably in most cases, in the top 5.   So, complaining about how this team is being run in terms that suggest it's some kind of massive failure just doesn't make sense to me. 

 

This is where I lie and why I have stayed clear since the CIN loss.

 

Did the Bills fail their goal, the fans dream, most predictions of a SB win? Yes. 

Are there things they need to improve on and legitimate questions ranging from coaching to draft? Yes.

Did they still overcome a sh*t ton of obstacles in every possible and win a lot? Also Yes.

And as you said would most fanbases take having McD, Beane, & Josh? Yes outside a select few who happen to also be really angry they lost or didn't make the SB or your KC.

I know people want it to be a black and white thing but like many things in life it is a far more complex grayed story and analysis. 

 

I have said numerous times I have zero issue with being objective on things the Bills need to work or and legitimate questions including whether the DC should stay, why the head coach tenses in playoff games, and most importantly why they just came out so flat in a game at home in game that would've give you a neutral field shot to slay the dragon. I think that is fine to discuss but it needs to be articulated with some logic not "Fire this guy" "burn it down" "Without Josh their the worst team in football" etc... 

 

Everyone complaining about McD but worship Reid forget up until 2019 Reid was considered a good offensive coach who couldn't close the deal. 2 SB wins later and now he is brilliant and that doesn't matter. Heck had the Bills won the SB this year all the people ignoring the injuries and adversity would've wrote it as part of story on how this team overcame. I am happy that the standard for many is SB or bust as opposed to just being happy they made the playoffs. They have a good team, they have a great QB, and they have a pretty good coach and GM who you should want more from. But find a healthy ground of reality also and maybe step away that football isn't the end all be all and your not fixing everything or winning the SB in one second.