Sean is not a bad coach, just a bad fit for this team and era

[Shaw66]

9 minutes ago, schoolhouserock said:

 

 

Let’s say the Bills have a great year next year and win it all. (3-0 in next season’s playoffs). That would put him top 31 in both categories - ahead of multiple hall of famers. The Bills and coach McD are literally one great season from such lofty heights. That’s what we have here, folks.

 

 

Rock -

 

Man, that's right on.  I think people are having the trouble you say. This is a 48-year-old coach who already has won more than most.  He's going to do this for another 20 years, and he's going to have Josh Allen for the next 10.   If he retires at age 70 never having won a Super Bowl, he will be - BY FAR - the single winningest coach in the NFL never to have won one.  This is a guy who projects to be one of the all-time great coaches in the league, and that's how he was seen when he was in the head coach market.  

 

Now, people will argue with what I've just predicted and sure, there are arguments to be made.   But in light of what he's accomplished with this team through six seasons, the notion that the guy's style of play is out of sync with the league and he should be replaced is just silly.  It's as silly as saying that Allen's been here for five years and hasn't won, so it's time to move on from him.   

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, uticaclub said:

I think Reid was limited by McNabb in Philly, yes he was a good QB but nowhere near the level of Mahomes and Allen 

 

 

No question Allen is better than McNabb or Michael Vick or Jeff Garcia or Alex Smith.

 

But Reid also dropped Mahomes onto a top notch veteran roster that had been to the playoffs 4 times in 5 seasons and already experienced numerous playoff upsets and failures........including one of the worst ever..........a blown a 28 point lead to Andrew Luck and Indy.

 

Truth is........Reid was wearing out his welcome in KC after 2016 because he was a coach with an 18 year track record chock full of playoff failures and no rings.........if they didn't get Mahomes or Watson in that 2017 draft........... I suspect 20 years with no rings, with no franchise QB to instill hope causes the Chiefs to fire Reid before he makes it to the 2019 season.

 

There are so many Bills fans who were casual fans of the NFL during the drought and because of that now don't have any perspective on the kind of runway coaches who win 10+ games every year get and how long a lot of HOF coaches take to win a SB. 

 

 

[uticaclub]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

No question Allen is better than McNabb or Michael Vick or Jeff Garcia or Alex Smith.

 

But Reid also dropped Mahomes onto a top notch veteran roster that had been to the playoffs 4 times in 5 seasons and already experienced numerous playoff upsets and failures........including one of the worst ever..........a blown a 28 point lead to Andrew Luck and Indy.

 

Truth is........Reid was wearing out his welcome in KC after 2016 because he was a coach with an 18 year track record chock full of playoff failures and no rings.........if they didn't get Mahomes or Watson in that 2017 draft........... I suspect 20 years with no rings, with no franchise QB to instill hope causes the Chiefs to fire Reid before he makes it to the 2019 season.

 

There are so many Bills fans who were casual fans of the NFL during the drought and because of that now don't have any perspective on the kind of runway coaches who win 10+ games every year get and how long a lot of HOF coaches take to win a SB. 

 

 

I understand it takes some coaches a decade+ to win one, but Allen isn't going to be here in 10 years, probably not even 5, we can't sit on our ***** waiting to see McD figures it out. The clock is ticking with Allen.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

Do you think that he has too much say in terms of personnel in terms of the draft, etc.?

 

 

I think he and Beane are in lockstep.

 

They brought too much Carolinas' "defense first and if the QB is elite let him figure it out" with them but I think they can grow out of that.

 

Hopefully Josh Allen is in their ear about giving HIM the horses on offense instead of the other way around...........he has 3 terribly defended playoff losses and proof of offensive roster negligence to support that position.

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

I understand it takes some coaches a decade+ to win one, but Allen isn't going to be here in 10 years, probably not even 5, we can't sit on our ***** waiting to see McD figures it out. The clock is ticking with Allen.

 

 

Yes they CAN sit on their hands.......which I assume you mean is not quit their jobs.

 

THEY picked Josh Allen.

 

That's the way it works.

 

He didn't just luck into the Bills hands.........McBeane were literally the first Bills regime to either move up or stand pat and pick a QB with their first pick in round 1 in team history.    

 

Yet some people act like he was gifted by the heavens and they have no ownership over the subsequent success or any right to steer this team going forward.

 

I have plenty of problems with McBeane..........starting with McDermott trading Mahomes to the Chiefs when they needed a QB........which was the dumbest thing the organization has ever done...........but drafting Allen was probably the smartest.

 

If it doesn't work out with Allen the Bills organization will have to win a SB someday with some other QB.

[BillsFanSD]

5 hours ago, Billsflyer12 said:

His game management decisions, either punt/go, FG/go or timeouts for example lean heavily toward protecting the defense.

I'm pretty sure this is the opposite of the truth.  The Bills have been really good at these decisions analytically.

[Bangarang]

3 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Well, I had an issue with it before it happened. Experience matters in any career. It was entirely predictable that once we got to the playoffs an inexperienced offensive play caller against a highly experienced defensive play caller was going to be a mismatch. I worry that we wasted a season of Josh Allen in his prime on Dorsey's training wheels. Best case scenario he takes a big step and ultimately gets hired away to be a head coach. Do we then let the next first timer in line do the same thing? As long as McDermott is here he needs someone with experience calling plays.

 

 

My #1 desire was Doug Pederson. Obviously that ended up not being possible. I would have been okay with Joe Brady. I think he was more of a fall guy in Carolina and he had experience. Pep Hamilton is another one I would have looked at, he ended up in Houston. Right now personally I wish we could get rid of Dorsey and hire Frank Reich but there's pretty much no chance of that happening so I guess we're stuck. I'm no expert on all of the available names. I just want someone that has done the job before because our window is going to close fast.

I’m of the mindset that you hire the best person that fits what you want to do on offense and knows how to use the personnel.

 

Ive been critical of Dorsey all year but I wasn’t against the hire. I don’t think hiring someone who’s been a poor OC just to say you hired someone with experience is the answer either. There’s risk with either frankly. 
 

It doesn’t look like Dorsey is going anywhere so the only hope I have is he gets more creative with his play calling and play design. There was a lot to be desired with both all season. 

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

McD= Marty Schottenheimer

 

And if things don't change

 

Allen=Philip Rivers 

Edited February 11, 2023 by JakeFrommStateFarm

[HappyDays]

54 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

But Reid also dropped Mahomes onto a top notch veteran roster that had been to the playoffs 4 times in 5 seasons and already experienced numerous playoff upsets and failures........including one of the worst ever..........a blown a 28 point lead to Andrew Luck and Indy.

 

Truth is........Reid was wearing out his welcome in KC after 2016 because he was a coach with an 18 year track record chock full of playoff failures and no rings.........if they didn't get Mahomes or Watson in that 2017 draft........... I suspect 20 years with no rings, with no franchise QB to instill hope causes the Chiefs to fire Reid before he makes it to the 2019 season.

 

Now imagine if once Reid got Mahomes he made it to one AFC Championship game and that was the extent of his accomplishments. That's where we're at right now with McDermott and Allen. If the same kind of disappointing playoff exit happens next year I think it is fair at that point to call for a change. Having an elite QB changes everything about the evaluation of the coaching staff. The clock on Allen's career is ticking. If McDermott can't even sniff a Super Bowl appearance after 4 years of elite QB play, we have to try and replace him with someone that can.

 

38 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Yes they CAN sit on their hands.......which I assume you mean is not quit their jobs.

 

THEY picked Josh Allen.

 

That's the way it works.

 

He didn't just luck into the Bills hands.........McBeane were literally the first Bills regime to either move up or stand pat and pick a QB with their first pick in round 1 in team history.    

 

Yet some people act like he was gifted by the heavens and they have no ownership over the subsequent success or any right to steer this team going forward.

 

The alternate view is that we thank McDermott for making the long awaited cultural turnaround, and for whatever role he played in obtaining the elusive franchise QB after a two decade wait, while acknowledging that he is not the guy to finish the job. If we have to replace him after next season some people might consider his stint here a failure. I wouldn't. He was the right man for the job coming out of the slapstick Rex Ryan regime. He did what the franchise needed and got paid I would think tens of millions of dollars for his efforts. We like to think of football teams as more than just corporations, but that's all they are. Sometimes a failing corporation needs a turnaround specialist to come in and whip it back into shape. That specialist doesn't usually stick around to take the corporation to the next level once his job is done. Maybe that's what McDermott is.

[LABILLBACKER]

4 hours ago, Radar said:

Maybe we should be asking about the GM more than the coach. Unless the coach is making draft decisions.

That will remain the great mystery of this team. Who's calling the shots.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I understand but I don’t understand. We lost in the playoffs. I mean even if we win a Super Bowl we’re going to hopefully go to the playoffs a lot more times. Losing in the playoffs will happen.

[Freddie's Dead]

Sean McDermott is a supreme leader of men.  But we will not win a championship with him as HC.  I'll be more than happy to be wrong, but I just don't see it.

[Rocbillsfan1]

8 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

What is wrong with you people?

 

13-3 with the #2 offense, #2 defense points allowed, #6 in yards allowed after being riddled by injures not good enough? 

 

So, the team lost in the playoffs...get over it already! 

Guessing you can’t wait just to do it all over again. How many times does he need to get out coached in the playoffs for you to wake up? 6 years, 8 years, 10 years? You tell me. 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Now imagine if once Reid got Mahomes he made it to one AFC Championship game and that was the extent of his accomplishments. That's where we're at right now with McDermott and Allen. If the same kind of disappointing playoff exit happens next year I think it is fair at that point to call for a change. Having an elite QB changes everything about the evaluation of the coaching staff. The clock on Allen's career is ticking. If McDermott can't even sniff a Super Bowl appearance after 4 years of elite QB play, we have to try and replace him with someone that can.

 

 

The alternate view is that we thank McDermott for making the long awaited cultural turnaround, and for whatever role he played in obtaining the elusive franchise QB after a two decade wait, while acknowledging that he is not the guy to finish the job. If we have to replace him after next season some people might consider his stint here a failure. I wouldn't. He was the right man for the job coming out of the slapstick Rex Ryan regime. He did what the franchise needed and got paid I would think tens of millions of dollars for his efforts. We like to think of football teams as more than just corporations, but that's all they are. Sometimes a failing corporation needs a turnaround specialist to come in and whip it back into shape. That specialist doesn't usually stick around to take the corporation to the next level once his job is done. Maybe that's what McDermott is.

 

 

LOL no that's not "where we are at" with McDermott and Allen.

 

Mahomes inherited an 18 year head coach who already had a probable HOF resume...........and a star-laden offense that was near the top of the league in 2017 and had been to the playoffs 4 times in 5 years.

 

Fully built.

 

Allen arrived on a bad team.........midway thru 2018 they were on pace to score the fewest points of any team in the NFL since the merger.

 

Instead........Beane, McDermott and Allen are all experiencing these firsts at the same time.

 

I told people when they tore the team down in 2017 while they were praising it that McBeane were making double work for themselves............they dumped their young core of 1st and 2nd round picks........in order: Woods, Gilmore, Darby, Watkins and Dareus..........and got just a late 2nd and a late 3rd round pick in return.   Gilmore was a DPOY,  Woods an All Pro, Darby/Watkins started on SB winning teams.

 

Fans cheered because heads rolled but sh!t like that in the name of culture meant they were going to have to hit it out of the park in the draft and UFA.

 

And they did not.

 

But if you look at the start Beane has had as a drafter versus the NFL's current best GM........Howie Roseman.........you could argue Beane has been better in his first 5 drafts.

 

And McD's win-loss record looks very similar to Andy Reid in his first 6 seasons.    

 

                                                           

 

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by BADOLBILZ

[In Summary]

8 hours ago, Bangarang said:

 

It's probably naïve to think McD didn't consult with Allen about who he wanted and Allen himself said he wanted Dorsey so can you really blame him?

Next year McDermott needs to spell a few things out to Dorsey who needs to spell a few things out to Josh. Not the time for hands off coaching and being grab-ass beer buddies. This of course after Beane brings in WR, OL and Pegula tells McDermott to be better at playing the young talent. Now I'm just rambling.

[Nihilarian]

7 hours ago, Rocbillsfan1 said:

Guessing you can’t wait just to do it all over again. How many times does he need to get out coached in the playoffs for you to wake up? 6 years, 8 years, 10 years? You tell me. 

It wasn't JUST coaching as it was a complete team letdown, Buffalo players on both sides of the ball outplayed. Little or no pass rush, couldn't keep the Bengals D off Allen. 

 

Like BADOBILZ said...

 

7 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

But if you look at the start Beane has had as a drafter versus the NFL's current best GM........Howie Roseman.........you could argue Beane has been better in his first 5 drafts.

 

And McD's win-loss record looks very similar to Andy Reid in his first 6 seasons.    

Pretty GD good comparison if ya asked me. That is, to be compared to a HC who didn't get his team to a SB until his seventh season and has won one and been there 3x now. 

 

The Chiefs were 2-14 the year before Reid got to KC so he had a shot at first overall pick...and who did he draft #1 overall? An offensive linemen in LT Eric Fisher who was with the Chiefs for 8 years. 

 

Read BADO's post his above, this GM and HC were both first timers in their respective jobs in Buffalo and are still leaning as they go. These men have been leaning/depending on Allen's arm far too much and see when he has an off day the offense falters big time. I think they both see that now and will work to build a better O line, run game to help that young QB. 

 

Have some freaking faith willya! 

[newcam2012]

16 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

He was a good coach for a team that was routinely 7-9 and "in the hunt." He pushed us over that hump. He did his job. If this is the only coach Josh plays for then I think it will be a huge waste of talent during these prime years

Have to agree with you. Great coach to rebuild a team and change a losing culture.

 

Not good at winning the big games and advancing in the playoffs. Six years of moderate to below average success. 

 

At some point, the Bills need to reset and make some coaching changes. This regime just falls short and flat in the playoffs. That 13 seconds disaster and the horrible Cinci game is an example of why change is needed

 

I'm more than ready to move on from Fraizer. Would very much like an upgrade from an unqualified and underwhelming Dorsey.

 

I think Coach McD and his good character theme is getting tiresome. He seems to lack that killer instinct mentality and toughness to propel this team to another level. I would prefer an aggressive offensive minded coach. I think McD limits Allen's ceiling. Agree he's not terrible but just not good enough. I suspect after next year his seat will be getting warmer. Sometimes change is needed.

 

For whatever reason, the Bills organization thinks its appropriate to run it back with the same coaching staff. That is quite perplexing for me as the most current playoff blunders were a result of terrible coaching, poor game plans, and non existent game time adjustments. 

Edited February 12, 2023 by newcam2012

[Doc Brown]

15 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yes. McDermott is the head coach, not Allen. In that situation you sit Allen down and say "Look I know Dorsey is your guy, but I need to do the right thing for this team at this stage of our championship window." If he's scared to have that conversation with Allen he is not the right person to lead this team.

Who would you have brought in that were former offensive coordinators out of curiosity?  Matt Nagy?  Pat Shurmur?  Bill O'Brien?  I don't remember there being a lot of great options.  Dorsey was the right hire and he'll prove it next year.  I'll die on that hill too.

[Nihilarian]

2 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Have to agree with you. Great coach to rebuild a team and change a losing culture.

 

Not good at winning the big games and advancing in the playoffs. Six years of moderate to below average success. 

 

What are you talking about?

 

Buffalo beat both Indianapolis and Baltimore IN the playoffs in 2020 2x playoff WINS!

 

In 2021 Buffalo stomped the hated NE Patriots in the playoffs 41-17. playoff WIN!

 

In 2022 Buffalo beat hated rival Miami Dolphins in the playoffs 31-34. Playoff WIN!

 

Looks to me like Buffalo advanced three years in a row in the playoffs! Three time AFC EAST division Champs! 

 

Yes, they lost to the Chiefs 2x and the Bengals in the playoffs. Buffalo has beaten the Chiefs in the regular season 2x now the last two years. This HC, GM are working on beating the teams they need to beat in the playoffs. Buffalo had some unfortunate bad luck in losing Von Miller to a season ending injury or they might be in the SB this year. 

 

I get it, Buffalo Bills fans are upset because they were the AFC favorites to be in the SB this year. Stuff happens, injuries to the star QB, pass rusher, sickness, snowstorms. Rookie OC who managed to tie the last OCs best record at #2 overall offense in 2022. 

 

This franchise has had one of the very best offenses and defenses for a few seasons now. I trust the GM, HC to get this team to a SB very soon.  

[Xwnyer]

19 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Because he was put into a different organization/locker room/new players.  
 

You can be a great coach and your time still can run out with your current team.  
 

Year 7 coming up.  
 

4 straight horrible playoff exits.  
 

At some point your locker room starts saying things like “it’s been 3 years….”

The locker room already is.  See Diggs comments