Daboll/Hodgins - Does their success bother you?

[In Summary]

On 2/10/2023 at 3:13 PM, Virgil said:

While I know that McD was never leaving as our HC, nor am I calling for it, I still think about the rift between him and McD in the final year.  

 

With Dorsey's alleged struggles, and our inability to find a solid WR2 on the team, the Hodgins thing bothers me more.  We weren't so flush with talent that cracking our depth chart was hard.  Hell, we brought back Beasley and Smoke.  So how did we miss on the opportunity that Hodgins was so badly?

 

I don't know, maybe I'm just bitter.  

Doesn't bother me. If it sheds light on Bills organizational problems then that's useful.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

On 2/10/2023 at 3:29 PM, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I wonder about Chad Hall. Hodgins was supposed to be a big slot WR for us. With Crowder injured there was a huge opportunity for Hodgins to take over the slot role or at least split with McKenzie. Instead Hodgins was working as depth behind Diggs.

 

It’s a missed opportunity. Looks like they didn’t evaluate their players well.

 

McKenzie has better numbers than Hodges, why would Hodges start over him? It’s easy to B word and whine that player X that used to be a Bill should’ve got an opportunity, but the truth is Hodgins did NOTHING to earn it. He sat behind better players until he went to NYG and their decimated WR core. 
 

Let’s see what he can do it year two before we crown him better than Gabe Davis. He may not even be a starter there next year. 

[Big Turk]

10 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

His numbers per snaps with the BILLS, were higher than every other WR on the team. When he saw the field in a Bills uniform, he put up greater numbers than every other WR on the Bills squad per snap.

 

And its not as if we have Cinci's WR core. We have a middling WR group outside of Diggs. The idea that Hodgins shouldn't have seen the field because McKenzie or Kumerow or Davis is silly to me. And the numbers prove it.

 

This is why you don't simply use stats to form an argument, because you can make them mean anything you want. Context actually matters.  What were the Giants average PPG?

Edited February 12, 2023 by Big Turk

[Rochesterfan]

On 2/11/2023 at 9:09 AM, Einstein said:

 

Is he though? Based on what? Just because the coaches wouldn't give him an opportunity?

 

Look at what he did when he got an opportunity...

 

Hodgins: 0.3 receptions, 2.5 yards per snap

Diggs: 0.1 receptions, 1.7 yards per snap

Davis: 0.05 receptions, 0.9 yard per snap

McKenzie: 0.07 receptions, 0.9 yard per snap

Per snap in Buffalo (opportunity), Hodgins outperformed EVERY RECEIVER (at the least the top 4) on the team!

 

What more did he need to do in order to receive a greater opportunity? When given a very limited chance, he performed. So how can we say he is an average WR? Based on what exactly?

 

------

Edited to add: if you include his Giants statistics per snap, his numbers go down a bit with a much larger snap count, but it STILL outperforms all but Diggs on a per-snap basis.

 

 

On 2/11/2023 at 9:24 AM, Einstein said:

 

See my post above.

 

He had more receptions and more yards per snap (opportunity) than every WR on the Bills (when with the Bills). If you include his Giants time, he has more receptions and more yards per reception than every WR on the Bills except Diggs.

 

Holy crap this is the stupidest thing I think you have ever posted - here let’s compare a guy with only a few limited snaps (16) versus starters because every official WR ranking is based on yards or catches per snap.

 

How did he look when he got more playing time with the Giants.

 

In 8 games he got 33 catches on 417 offensive snaps and a paltry 350 yards on those snaps compared to Diggs who had 108 catches on 836 snaps and over 1400 yards.

 

That means once he got playing time he fell to:

0.07 receptions per snap and 0.8 yards per snap - oh look the same as all the guys you mention once you get some numbers.

 

if you convert Hodgins NYG numbers to a full year comparable to other players catching the ball - he is ranked 40-50th in receptions and 50-60th in yards and over 70th in yards per reception as a #1 WR on the team.  He put up #2 or #3 type numbers as the primary target and terrible numbers in Yards per reception and yards after catch.

 

Hodgins is the very definition of average and is a terrible fit in the Bills offense because with a lack of speed on the outside he brings nothing.  As a legitimate 4th or 5th WR - you need special teams play and even on the Giants he got 0 ST snaps.  

 

After the Giants traded their #1 WR to KC and their other WR in Slayton was hurt - they needed to sign and then play Hodgins and like Robert Foster his rookie year - when that is all you have - you make due.  Once the Giants get another WR threat on the outside - Hodgins falls back into his 3/4th outside role and with a lack of speed and special team abilities he will begin to drop back to unknown territory.

 

 

[Rochesterfan]

On 2/11/2023 at 9:09 AM, Einstein said:

 

Is he though? Based on what? Just because the coaches wouldn't give him an opportunity?

 

Look at what he did when he got an opportunity...

 

Hodgins: 0.3 receptions, 2.5 yards per snap

Diggs: 0.1 receptions, 1.7 yards per snap

Davis: 0.05 receptions, 0.9 yard per snap

McKenzie: 0.07 receptions, 0.9 yard per snap

Per snap in Buffalo (opportunity), Hodgins outperformed EVERY RECEIVER (at the least the top 4) on the team!

 

What more did he need to do in order to receive a greater opportunity? When given a very limited chance, he performed. So how can we say he is an average WR? Based on what exactly?

 

------

Edited to add: if you include his Giants statistics per snap, his numbers go down a bit with a much larger snap count, but it STILL outperforms all but Diggs on a per-snap basis.

 

 

I mean I am pretty sure I heard on ESPN - they were debating who is the best WR and go well you know:

 

Justin Jefferson with only 0.11 receptions per snap and 1.69 yards per snap

Diggs with 0.1 receptions per snap and 1.7 yards per snap

 

Nope it must be Hodgins when he played with the Bills on his 16 snaps - he doubled and tripled those guys.  It does mean anything when he moved to the Giants and actually got snaps that those numbers became 2nd and 3rd tier.

 

🤦‍♂️

Edited February 12, 2023 by Rochesterfan

[Billl]

Funny thing is that Giants fans are having the exact same conversation about Kadarius Toney.

[Einstein]

39 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

Holy crap this is the stupidest thing I think you have ever posted -

 

 

You seem to not like much of what I post. Why not just "ignore" me so you don't continue to get aggravated?

 

Click this link, then add my username and you won't have to read my posts anymore: https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/ignore/

[Scott7975]

No.  Daboll did a great job with that team.  He earned it.  Hodgins is just another JAG.  He isnt any better or worse than the other JAGs on our team.  He did well because they have no one to throw to that arent also JAGs or worse.  Just like when Zay Jones had a career year here but he's kind of just a JAG too.  At the time he was the best we had to throw to so he had that career year.

Edited February 12, 2023 by Scott7975