Daboll/Hodgins - Does their success bother you?

[Doc Brown]

Yeah I'm jealous of Daboll's success.  Making the divisional round with the second ranked offense and defense with the sixth toughest schedule in the NFL while overcoming big time injuries to key players on defense is just an incredible job.

[Matt_In_NH]

9-7-1. Why would you have jelly on your face for that?    He has a long way to go to be compared to McDermott.  

[gjv]

Perhaps Hodgins had something to do with the departure of Chad Hall. 

[Manther]

15 hours ago, babulator said:

People on here loved Kumerow for his ST ability, people thought Gabe was gonna be the 2nd coming, and Mckenzie was gonna be cheetah-esque.  

 

The reality is Kumerow is worthless (and finished the season hurt), Gabe was a massive disappointment, and I'm still unsure why we kept Isiah at all. Honestly, I thought Ray ray was the better choice, but I digress. 

 

There really is, there is no excuse for not keeping Hodgins. We kept him while injured, we were patient with his rehab, he started producing when healthy and given the opportunity. He's not a game breaker, but there's no excuse for not keeping him after all we did to keep him as long as we did.

 

I have no issue with Daboll's success either, last I checked they'll be watching the SB too.

I don’t totally believe Hodgins was hurt for two years.  I thought they were stashing him.  If so, that adds to your thoughts that they invested time in him.

 

The Bills made Hodgins available to everyone for the 53rd spot on our roster.  Rotational players that didn’t play on Defense.

 

It was very odd to me.

[davefan66]

It’s what happens when you have an elite team.

 

Good players don’t make the roster and good coaches leave.

 

Not bitter at all.  

[Manther]

13 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I never understood it. What was this obsession with guys like Kumerow or Gentry. Why did we allow Hodgins to get poached while we kinda panic returning Bease & Smoke.  Shakir is hardly allowed to develop?  So many odd decisions. 

Agreed

[Coldfronts]

Yes, Daboll had unfinished business here with the bills

[Einstein]

16 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Did you see games that didn't include Minnesota?  His high point was 4 catches for 42 yards outside of the 2 Minnesota games.  So no, not that upset. He is a JAG with lots of opportunities there because they have no good WRs. I am not sure he was even as good as Robert Foster was here.

 

Kinda hard to have better than 4 for 42 when the coaching staff isn’t playing you.

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

Don’t be fooled … he’s a JAG on a team bereft of quality at the position.. if healthy, perhaps he could have had a role here, but he wasn’t solving our issues at WR2. 

[Mr. WEO]

Giants finished 3rd in their division, with only a single win in it.  Despite this, they made the playoffs because they NFC stinks.  They were promptly pantsed and thus exposed as frauds by the Eagles. Now they have to back up the Brinks truck to pay their own Dak Prescott (who's far worse at QB)--or their RB, thus locking them into years of mediocrity either way.

 

Why should anyone here be bothered by this?

[Rochesterfan]

17 hours ago, Virgil said:

While I know that McD was never leaving as our HC, nor am I calling for it, I still think about the rift between him and McD in the final year.  

 

With Dorsey's alleged struggles, and our inability to find a solid WR2 on the team, the Hodgins thing bothers me more.  We weren't so flush with talent that cracking our depth chart was hard.  Hell, we brought back Beasley and Smoke.  So how did we miss on the opportunity that Hodgins was so badly?

 

I don't know, maybe I'm just bitter.  

 

16 hours ago, Virgil said:

Don’t bring up Teller, it’s still too soon.  However, Beane has openly admitted to messing that one up 

 

Not in the least - Daboll deserved his chance and we will see how it goes moving forward.  Fans here did nothing but criticize Daboll for play calling and then suddenly love it when it was someplace else.  The truth is teams starting figuring him out late in the season and the Giants outperformed expectations early and then maxed out luck and talent much like 2019 and 2020 with the Bills.

 

Hodgins is an average WR on a team with no WR talent.  If he remained on the Bills - he was still no more than a #6 WR that struggled to get open.  Most games with the Giants he was completely invisible getting a couple of catches.  He did seem to show up versus Minnesota for them, but other than that he was a nothing.

 

It is ok to bring up Teller - much like Hodgins - he left Buffalo and fell into a great situation for him.  His first year in Cleveland- Teller was bad - to the point most fans thought he was getting cut - much like his struggles in Buffalo.  Then they brought in an OL coach and OC that fit him and he excelled.  That was not happening in Buffalo because no matter the Bills were going to be a pass first team and even as an all pro - Teller is barely average in pass protection- especially late in games when teams can pin their ears back and are not worried about the run.  
 

Be happy for the players - neither was going to do anything in Buffalo.  It is ok for people to find a scheme and become a better player.  It is ok for a player low on the depth chart to go to a bad team and be higher up and get a chance - be happy and “LET IT GO”.

 

There is nothing wrong with that.

 

 

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

Kinda hard to have better than 4 for 42 when the coaching staff isn’t playing you.

 

He got a lot of playing time, what are you talking about?

[Einstein]

42 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

Hodgins is an average WR

 

Is he though? Based on what? Just because the coaches wouldn't give him an opportunity?

 

Look at what he did when he got an opportunity...

 

Hodgins: 0.3 receptions, 2.5 yards per snap

Diggs: 0.1 receptions, 1.7 yards per snap

Davis: 0.05 receptions, 0.9 yard per snap

McKenzie: 0.07 receptions, 0.9 yard per snap

Per snap in Buffalo (opportunity), Hodgins outperformed EVERY RECEIVER (at the least the top 4) on the team!

 

What more did he need to do in order to receive a greater opportunity? When given a very limited chance, he performed. So how can we say he is an average WR? Based on what exactly?

 

------

Edited to add: if you include his Giants statistics per snap, his numbers go down a bit with a much larger snap count, but it STILL outperforms all but Diggs on a per-snap basis.

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Einstein

[Chicken Boo]

I have little to no faith in this staff's ability to recognize talent.  They seem to value familiarity more.

 

Daboll was sure to get grabbed up by some team.  He earned that.  

[Einstein]

22 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

He got a lot of playing time, what are you talking about?

 

See my post above.

 

He had more receptions and more yards per snap (opportunity) than every WR on the Bills (when with the Bills). If you include his Giants time, he has more receptions and more yards per reception than every WR on the Bills except Diggs.

[Bill from NYC]

Actually I am quite happy to see Daboll do so well. Daboll coached under two of the best foorball minds ever (Bellichick and Saban) and both had nothing but great things to say about him. As I recall, Josh Allen spoke quite highly of him as well. The Giant players seem to be crazy about him too.

 

Virgil, the man coached Jalen Hurts, Tua, and Mac Jones. I am thinking that however hated those three are on this board (which I fully understand), this is something to brag about. I always felt as if Daboll was underrated on TSW but that is jmo.

 

Daboll is a good, solid coach and seemingly a great guy. While I did appreciate his ability, I would place him just a step below Steve Sarkisian, who I wish was coaching the Bills, but I doubt if they would match the salary he makes at Texas.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Bill from NYC

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

See my post above.

 

He had more receptions and more yards per snap (opportunity) than every WR on the Bills (when with the Bills). If you include his Giants time, he has more receptions and more yards per reception than every WR on the Bills except Diggs.

 

Yes...simply in a place where they had no WRs so he got playing time and balls thrown to him by default 

 

What's next, arguing Robert Foster should be back on the Bills? Hodgins didn't even come close to having the season Foster had with the Bills.

[Nihilarian]

Good for him.

 

NY is a tough place to be a HC.

[Ya Digg?]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

See my post above.

 

He had more receptions and more yards per snap (opportunity) than every WR on the Bills (when with the Bills). If you include his Giants time, he has more receptions and more yards per reception than every WR on the Bills except Diggs.

To me this is manipulating stats to fit what you want it to fit. Let’s be honest to have any stat that has Hodgins rated higher than Diggs does not pass the smell test

[Success]

Not really - more happy for both.

 

Gotta admit - once in awhile, I think that we probably did have a better HC on our staff.  I don't think there was any way we could have made him OUR HC - it would have been dramatic and weird to fire McD and elevate Daboll to the top job.  

 

But I also think that's a hot take.  Daboll had a great year, but who knows if he'll be consistent. He had some things go his way this year.  And I'm generally happy w/ McD.