Apparently Vegas doesn't agree the Bills are done...

[The Red King]

So...to be clear...some of you are pointing to glorified Power Rankings as conclusive evidence the Bills are perfectly fine?

 

Really?

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Great post Alphadawg.  Somebody who discusses issues with common sense. How refreshing. Nobody says we're done. With Josh running around making ridiculous plays we're pretty much guaranteed 10 wins every year. The problem lies how do we get to that next level. We need better coaching. We need better GM decisions.  We need healthy players. We need a season where the world isn't crashing down on the team in 10 different ways.  We need luck.  We're not done but we're hardly the SB favorites. 

 

Thanks, and yeah, I agree with all this.  Injuries hurt us this year during the season for sure.  But honestly, injuries had very little to do with our embarrassing loss to Bengals.  Hyde was out most the season and we were the #2 D without him, and that was with Von missing almost the whole last half of the season too.  So the defense that managed to maintain the #2 ranking for the last half of the season was pretty much on the field that game.  And our offense wasn't suffering from any significant injury issues.  

 

Bengals just flat out dominated us.  And you touched on one of the reasons why above...we need better coaching.  I am not referring to McD, who I still have confidence in.  But our coordinators I felt were atrocious in that game and not only was the game plan flawed, but the play calling was terrible and I can site many examples of that.  

 

The second major issue that game was the weather.  So many fans falsely believe that the severe weather at home is some kind of "advantage" over other teams.  Not only is that absolutely not true, I would make the case it's a disadvantage for us.  First off, both Mahomes and Burrow are fully capable of playing in bad weather, so we gain nothing there.  But the rest of our team make up, schemes, etc is that of a dome team.  On offense, we are an air out, long ball offense who lacks any kind of consistent run game with a terrible OL. 

 

On defense, we play a style of bend, don't break, and already give offensive players a cushion.  When running in the snow, offensive players (because they know where they are going) already have an advantage over a defender because it's slower and harder to plant and react quickly.  But its compounded by our defensive scheme because our style already plays off the ball.  And to compound that even further than that, Frazier tends to give an even bigger cushion at times because he is always afraid of getting beat deep while he lets guys like Mahomes and Burrow pick us apart in the short to mid range.  

[PBF81]

5 hours ago, gobills404 said:

 

And if he's not healthy ... 

 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Thanks, and yeah, I agree with all this.  Injuries hurt us this year during the season for sure.  But honestly, injuries had very little to do with our embarrassing loss to Bengals.  Hyde was out most the season and we were the #2 D without him, and that was with Von missing almost the whole last half of the season too.  So the defense that managed to maintain the #2 ranking for the last half of the season was pretty much on the field that game.  And our offense wasn't suffering from any significant injury issues.  

 

Bengals just flat out dominated us.  And you touched on one of the reasons why above...we need better coaching.  I am not referring to McD, who I still have confidence in.  But our coordinators I felt were atrocious in that game and not only was the game plan flawed, but the play calling was terrible and I can site many examples of that.  

 

The second major issue that game was the weather.  So many fans falsely believe that the severe weather at home is some kind of "advantage" over other teams.  Not only is that absolutely not true, I would make the case it's a disadvantage for us.  First off, both Mahomes and Burrow are fully capable of playing in bad weather, so we gain nothing there.  But the rest of our team make up, schemes, etc is that of a dome team.  On offense, we are an air out, long ball offense who lacks any kind of consistent run game with a terrible OL. 

 

On defense, we play a style of bend, don't break, and already give offensive players a cushion.  When running in the snow, offensive players (because they know where they are going) already have an advantage over a defender because it's slower and harder to plant and react quickly.  But its compounded by our defensive scheme because our style already plays off the ball.  And to compound that even further than that, Frazier tends to give an even bigger cushion at times because he is always afraid of getting beat deep while he lets guys like Mahomes and Burrow pick us apart in the short to mid range.  

Ever since watching the infamous NE wind game I realized this Bills team was not built to win in their own weather. That includes wind, rain and snow.  We just don't play and Josh doesn't throw like it's an advantage.  I was praying for a dome regardless of how butt hurt the hard cores would feel.  And obviously that ship has sailed.

     The coordinators are a major problem. Events like 13 seconds and 3rd & 4 usually gets someone fired. I think the clock is ticking on Leslie as Holcomb being hired. If you bend something long enough eventually it breaks.  And Dorsey definitely looked like a "deer in the headlights" with multiple wrs in the same area, no hot reads and too many bombs. Diggs telling Josh to stop listening to him is pretty concerning.  This is Sean's team. He's the CEO.  He hired or promoted these guys.  He's responsible for fixing this.

[Bookie Man]

Would you make a reverse SB bet? 

 

Buffalo doesn't make it at say -1250

 

Basically wagering $1250 to win $100 that Bills don't win the AFC title. 

[RG Murdock]

9 hours ago, PBF81 said:

As long as we have a healthy Allen ...

Yeah, well Vegas is for suckers.. There's millions of us. Just like the Dolphins had a healthy Marino, and the Chargers had HOFer Dan Fouts for 12+ years and did nothing but slowly fade away after a few early years of success. The Bills have a certifiable joke of an offensive line, and a D-Line made up mostly players who have no contracts after this coming year!!  They have one quality wide receiver!!!. Keep clutching those pearls Bills fans. I have attended Bills games since the Rockpile years, and what Beane has done to this franchise core with his handling of the the O-Line and D-line is nothing short of laughable incompetence. How long can Beane live on the Allen draft pick? He has no money to spend, and 6 draft picks... The Bills have Allen, Diggs, and Milano, and a bunch of guys... Good luck....           

[TAinLack.]

10 hours ago, HOUSE said:

There is no way I'm falling for that s*** again this year 

 

"Certainly"!

[Thurman#1]

11 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I mean we’re still a top 3 team in the AFC until proven otherwise. What’s the surprise?

 

 

 

 

There is no surprise. It's just pointing out that the vast lahars of pessimism we've seen here are wild overreactions. 

 

We certainly do need to do a good job with personnel acquisition this year. But so does every team every year, really.

 

4 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Thanks, and yeah, I agree with all this.  Injuries hurt us this year during the season for sure.  But honestly, injuries had very little to do with our embarrassing loss to Bengals.  Hyde was out most the season and we were the #2 D without him, and that was with Von missing almost the whole last half of the season too.  So the defense that managed to maintain the #2 ranking for the last half of the season was pretty much on the field that game.  And our offense wasn't suffering from any significant injury issues.  

 

Bengals just flat out dominated us.  And you touched on one of the reasons why above...we need better coaching.  I am not referring to McD, who I still have confidence in.  But our coordinators I felt were atrocious in that game and not only was the game plan flawed, but the play calling was terrible and I can site many examples of that.  

 

The second major issue that game was the weather.  So many fans falsely believe that the severe weather at home is some kind of "advantage" over other teams.  Not only is that absolutely not true, I would make the case it's a disadvantage for us.  First off, both Mahomes and Burrow are fully capable of playing in bad weather, so we gain nothing there.  But the rest of our team make up, schemes, etc is that of a dome team.  On offense, we are an air out, long ball offense who lacks any kind of consistent run game with a terrible OL. 

 

On defense, we play a style of bend, don't break, and already give offensive players a cushion.  When running in the snow, offensive players (because they know where they are going) already have an advantage over a defender because it's slower and harder to plant and react quickly.  But its compounded by our defensive scheme because our style already plays off the ball.  And to compound that even further than that, Frazier tends to give an even bigger cushion at times because he is always afraid of getting beat deep while he lets guys like Mahomes and Burrow pick us apart in the short to mid range.  

 

 

I strongly disagree that injuries had little to do with the loss to the Bengals.

 

IMO with Hyde, Von and Da'Quan on the field, not to mention with Poyer healthy rather than limping around like a golem, there's a very decent possibility that game looks a whole lot different.

Edited February 11, 2023 by Thurman#1

[Franco_92]

3 hours ago, RG Murdock said:

Yeah, well Vegas is for suckers.. There's millions of us. Just like the Dolphins had a healthy Marino, and the Chargers had HOFer Dan Fouts for 12+ years and did nothing but slowly fade away after a few early years of success. The Bills have a certifiable joke of an offensive line, and a D-Line made up mostly players who have no contracts after this coming year!!  They have one quality wide receiver!!!. Keep clutching those pearls Bills fans. I have attended Bills games since the Rockpile years, and what Beane has done to this franchise core with his handling of the the O-Line and D-line is nothing short of laughable incompetence. How long can Beane live on the Allen draft pick? He has no money to spend, and 6 draft picks... The Bills have Allen, Diggs, and Milano, and a bunch of guys... Good luck....           

Congrats on being old, but you're ***** annoying and not saying anything particularly interesting or even true

[iinii]

5 hours ago, The Red King said:

Vegas isn't ranking anyone.  They are setting betting lines.  In this case they're hoping to fleece people who don't look deep enough into the Bills and free-pass them based on circumstances.

I think of it more as they are fleecing 31 suckers. Do the math, one winner and thirty one losers, the house wins every time. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Yes and Mike Schopp can remind us of that everyday for the next calendar year. 

[PBF81]

6 hours ago, RG Murdock said:

Yeah, well Vegas is for suckers.. There's millions of us. Just like the Dolphins had a healthy Marino, and the Chargers had HOFer Dan Fouts for 12+ years and did nothing but slowly fade away after a few early years of success. The Bills have a certifiable joke of an offensive line, and a D-Line made up mostly players who have no contracts after this coming year!!  They have one quality wide receiver!!!. Keep clutching those pearls Bills fans. I have attended Bills games since the Rockpile years, and what Beane has done to this franchise core with his handling of the the O-Line and D-line is nothing short of laughable incompetence. How long can Beane live on the Allen draft pick? He has no money to spend, and 6 draft picks... The Bills have Allen, Diggs, and Milano, and a bunch of guys... Good luck....      

 

Yup, I couldn't agree more, but Vegas is one thing, reality another.  

[Alphadawg7]

15 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

There is no surprise. It's just pointing out that the vast lahars of pessimism we've seen here are wild overreactions. 

 

We certainly do need to do a good job with personnel acquisition this year. But so does every team every year, really.

 

 

 

I strongly disagree that injuries had little to do with the loss to the Bengals.

 

IMO with Hyde, Von and Da'Quan on the field, not to mention with Poyer healthy rather than limping around like a golem, there's a very decent possibility that game looks a whole lot different.

Let me clarify…when I said having little to do with it, I was directly referencing the #2 ranked regular season defense.  Hyde missed the majority of the year and Von missed the last half, we were still the #2 ranked D.  Not to me thin how many injuries we had during the season…still finishing 2nd.

 

So I was saying in terms of the players who contributed the most to the #2 ranking in regular season, they were mostly out there during Bengals game, and we also got Tre back.  So there was no excuse for them to play like the 32nd ranked team when they managed the #2 ranking over a whole season while those guys missed large parts of the season as well as all the injuries in season.

[Playoffs?]

I want us to be underdogs, a lot. 

[Teddy KGB]

On 2/10/2023 at 3:10 PM, arcane said:

Those clowns in Vegas! If only they could see what YOU could see, in all your misery. Then maybe they'd know something about football.

Cool story.   Let’s draft more DE’s and trade away Mahomes again 🤡🤡🤡

[Franco_92]

3 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

Cool story.   Let’s draft more DE’s and trade away Mahomes again 🤡🤡🤡

And such quick wit, too!

[Teddy KGB]

11 minutes ago, arcane said:

And such quick wit, too!

regular season wins matter dammit !!! 

[Paup 1995MVP]

On 2/10/2023 at 5:29 PM, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Thanks, and yeah, I agree with all this.  Injuries hurt us this year during the season for sure.  But honestly, injuries had very little to do with our embarrassing loss to Bengals.  Hyde was out most the season and we were the #2 D without him, and that was with Von missing almost the whole last half of the season too.  So the defense that managed to maintain the #2 ranking for the last half of the season was pretty much on the field that game.  And our offense wasn't suffering from any significant injury issues.  

 

Bengals just flat out dominated us.  And you touched on one of the reasons why above...we need better coaching.  I am not referring to McD, who I still have confidence in.  But our coordinators I felt were atrocious in that game and not only was the game plan flawed, but the play calling was terrible and I can site many examples of that.  

 

The second major issue that game was the weather.  So many fans falsely believe that the severe weather at home is some kind of "advantage" over other teams.  Not only is that absolutely not true, I would make the case it's a disadvantage for us.  First off, both Mahomes and Burrow are fully capable of playing in bad weather, so we gain nothing there.  But the rest of our team make up, schemes, etc is that of a dome team.  On offense, we are an air out, long ball offense who lacks any kind of consistent run game with a terrible OL. 

 

On defense, we play a style of bend, don't break, and already give offensive players a cushion.  When running in the snow, offensive players (because they know where they are going) already have an advantage over a defender because it's slower and harder to plant and react quickly.  But its compounded by our defensive scheme because our style already plays off the ball.  And to compound that even further than that, Frazier tends to give an even bigger cushion at times because he is always afraid of getting beat deep while he lets guys like Mahomes and Burrow pick us apart in the short to mid range.  

Ironically we defended the Chiefs better then anyone this year when we played them in KC.  But without Von Miller we have no pass rushing to speak of.  Its a vanilla defense with no top end guys except for Milano.  Hopefully Hyde can come back and play at a high level.  But he is over 30 so that is not guaranteed.  We need to do some honest self evaluation and try and figure out what it will take to play at the level of the top teams.  We were not that in the playoffs.  Josh Allen is a great talent.  But we need more then Diggs to complement him.  And the coaching on both sides of the ball needs to be better.  And that includes McDermott as well.    

 

Btw a great Super Bowl to end the season.  Football is still the best sport in the world.  Nothing comes close.  Although NASCAR starts for real next Sunday.  And I will enjoy it throughout the long offseason.  

[CSBill]

After reading this thread, I'm so depressed. Goodness our team is so awful. I think I should just not bother with the '23 season. When does '24 start?

[John from Riverside]

Vegas always makes their money back always