Khalil Shakir / answer for WR 2 / Makes Sports Illustrated

[Straight Hucklebuck]

3 minutes ago, Figster said:

This cat can flat out fly. I told myself I wouldn't get excited about a high round WR in the upcoming draft. Last guy I had my hopes on in Tee Higgins went to the team that kicked our ass in the playoffs. 

 

Well I am...

If the Bills were able to select Hyatt and he joined the Bills, I do think part of his evaluation is the risk that he is just a faster Gabe Davis. 

 

It would lean into what Allen wants be ... aggressive deep thrower, but it could be limited. 

[H2o]

There have been some WR's drafted in the 5th or later since 2010 who have accomplished some things in this league. Antonio Brown, Marvin Jones, Stefon Diggs, Darren Waller was listed as a WR at Georgia Tech, Tyreke Hill, Marquez Valdes-Scantling, Hunter Renfrow, Darnell Mooney, and Isaiah Hodgins (small body of work, but he did have a semi-breakout this year with NY). Of course most of the WR groups around the league are made up of guys drafted higher, but Shakir has as good a shot as any if he puts in the work. We shall see, but I do not expect him to be more productive than Davis this year. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Just now, H2o said:

There have been some WR's drafted in the 5th or later since 2010 who have accomplished some things in this league. Antonio Brown, Marvin Jones, Stefon Diggs, Darren Waller was listed as a WR at Georgia Tech, Tyreke Hill, Marquez Valdes-Scantling, Hunter Renfrow, Darnell Mooney, and Isaiah Hodgins (small body of work, but he did have a semi-breakout this year with NY). Of course most of the WR groups around the league are made up of guys drafted higher, but Shakir has as good a shot as any if he puts in the work. We shall see, but I do not expect him to be more productive than Davis this year. 

The Bills just can't bank on that growth. 

 

They need to add more talent and speed up this learning curve. 

 

Diggs is in his late-prime now, Von Miller, the defense having to band aid the losses of Poyer now, etc. 

[Figster]

5 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

If the Bills were able to select Hyatt and he joined the Bills, I do think part of his evaluation is the risk that he is just a faster Gabe Davis. 

 

It would lean into what Allen wants be ... aggressive deep thrower, but it could be limited. 

A much, much faster Gabe Davis.

 

What you say is true on the risk factor, but it would still be upgrading WR2

[H2o]

Just now, Straight Hucklebuck said:

The Bills just can't bank on that growth. 

 

They need to add more talent and speed up this learning curve. 

 

Diggs is in his late-prime now, Von Miller, the defense having to band aid the losses of Poyer now, etc. 

I agree. I would like to see us sign someone like Jakobi Meyers in FA, along with drafting Zay Flowers in the 1st or Josh Downs in the 2nd. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 minute ago, Figster said:

A much, much faster Gabe Davis.

 

What you say is true on the risk factor, but it would still be upgrading WR2

They'll have to put his snaps under true press coverage under a microscope and project how he would do against NFL corners. 

 

If he gets a free release and Allen has time, it does become big plays. 

 

And the way he is at 20 ypc, all it takes is couple of bombs a game for this pick to really ignite the offense. 

[WyoAZBillfan]

5 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

 

So keep investing in more Defensive Line, Secondary and Running Back talent, and keep scabbing on the Offensive Line and WR? 

 

 

Didn’t say, imply or even mention that. Just asked a question. I’m in the camp off fix the O-line and the rest will come together much better. Of the players mentioned, how many of them had an actual good team to complement them all around. Big picture type stuff.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

3 minutes ago, WyoAZBillfan said:

Didn’t say, imply or even mention that. Just asked a question. I’m in the camp off fix the O-line and the rest will come together much better. Of the players mentioned, how many of them had an actual good team to complement them all around. Big picture type stuff.

So you're just advocating OL in Rounds 1, 2, 3 because we don't have the money to go big in FA. 

 

That's a great strategy too, as long as we aren't taking 1st Round Running Backs, and Safeties to replace Poyer or Linebackers to replace Edmunds I like that plan too. 

 

I do think we'll still find that our WRs aren't dynamic enough and Diggs isn't enough. 

[WyoAZBillfan]

Just now, Straight Hucklebuck said:

So you're just advocating OL in Rounds 1, 2, 3 because we don't have the money to go big in FA. 

 

That's a great strategy too, as long as we aren't taking 1st Round Running Backs, and Safeties to replace Poyer or Linebackers to replace Edmunds I like that plan too. 

 

I do think we'll still find that our WRs aren't dynamic enough and Diggs isn't enough. 

Not quite advocating that either. Just believe the lines must be fixed. One position I or player isn’t going to do it. Buffalo could’ve gotten Any number of named WRs this year and while I can’t predict what would’ve happened, my eyes tell me 17 didn’t have time to get the ball to anyone a lot of the time. Throw in the D failure and we’re absolute one dimensional with no time to be…one dimensional. 
i do concur with what your saying though. Just different views.

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Figster said:

On a side note: heres someone to keep your eye on at WR in the upcoming draft. 

 

 

 

I'm not sure Hyatt will still be there at pick 27 but if he is it's a no brainer selection. I see people overanalyzing his talent like they did with DK Metcalf. To me it's simple - he can out run everybody on the field, he's competitive, he has good hands. All of that and he isn't a 1st round talent because he played in a spread offense in college? Let's not overthink this. Elite athletic traits win at the NFL level. Technique can be taught.

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by HappyDays

[nosejob]

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I don't because he doesn't have elite traits. 

 

He runs two routes - the go and the comeback off the go, and he drops the ball. 

 

He's not going to become nimble, or fast enough to be significant (sub-4.45)

 

There is more too it than just Gabe:

1. Allen is in his prime right now

2. Stefon Diggs isn't going to be at his apex forever 

3. Slot was an absolute mess with McKenzie, Shakir and Beasley - none of them holding down that position

4. Numbers are going to matter as Kumerow, Beasley, Brown, Crowder are all FAs. 

 

 

I think the lesson from 2022 was you can't just bank on organic development, Allen needs more elite talent. 

 

Beane added Diggs and stopped. 

 

 

I'm never against them upgrading talent, but what could have Isaiah Hodgins possibly done vs. keeping some of the other no names on the p.s.?  Couldn't they have protected him? WR seems to be the one area where I think they'll build one hell of a unit this year. If we hit on one draft pick, cut the fat and maybe sign a FA,....or not, we'll be fine. Slot receiver don't mean much ( and I'm all in on Shakir) if Allen can't control the home run itch....and I'm hoping Dorsey matures and reigns this in.

 

Oline, WR, safety and possibly finding a Dareus somewhere in the draft would be great. I know this may be the wrong thread, but I would be looking to trade down with the Bears or Texans who have plenty of picks and try to get a high end 4th and fifth. ...ie 28 to the Texans for 34? and the 2nd pick in the 4th and 5th?

 

Maybe either take Noah Sewell who'll be the next Junior Seau or Dewand Jones and move Dion. I get it, he may not wanna play RT, but he should at least slide inside. Edmunds isn't Roquan, Warner or even Bolton. I rather use that money elsewhere. I digress...

Edited February 10, 2023 by nosejob

[Straight Hucklebuck]

4 minutes ago, WyoAZBillfan said:

Not quite advocating that either. Just believe the lines must be fixed. One position I or player isn’t going to do it. Buffalo could’ve gotten Any number of named WRs this year and while I can’t predict what would’ve happened, my eyes tell me 17 didn’t have time to get the ball to anyone a lot of the time. Throw in the D failure and we’re absolute one dimensional with no time to be…one dimensional. 
i do concur with what your saying though. Just different views.

I think Round 1 WR, Round 2 OL, Round 3 OL is better than R1 OL, R2 OL, R2 WR, but as long as McDermott and Beane are stopped from continuing to pour draft resources into the defense I will be happy. 

 

You listen to these analysts and it's like we need to draft a DE, DT, S, LB, TE, we need a better RB1, and it's like guys, we have 6 picks......

 

3 minutes ago, nosejob said:

I'm never against them upgrading talent, but what could have Isaiah Hodgins possibly done vs. keeping some of the other no names on the p.s.?  Couldn't they have protected him? WR seems to be the one area where I think they'll build one hell of a unit this year. If we hit on one draft pick, cut the fat and maybe sign a FA,....or not, we'll be fine. Slot receiver don't mean much if Allen can't control the home run itch....and I'm hoping Dorsey matures and reigns this in.

 

Oline, WR, safety and possibly finding a Dareus somewhere in the draft would be great. I know this may be the wrong thread, but I would be looking to trade down with the Bears or Texans who have plenty of picks and try to get a high end 4th and fifth. ...ie 28 to the Texans for the 2nd pick in the 4th and 5th?

 

Maybe either take Noah Sewell who'll be the next Junior Seau or Dewand Jones and move Dion. I get it, he may not wanna play RT, but he should at least slide inside. Edmunds isn't Roquan, Warner or even Bolton. I rather use that money elsewhere. I digress...

Hodgins is not a factor. 

 

He runs a 4.64 and will never be a top WR. 

 

The top end is Housh, and the bottom end is David Nelson. 

 

He was hurt for two years. 

 

I'm not sad he's gone. 

 

On Dewand Jones, his looks like he tore up the Senior Bowl, so it's either Round 1 or trading up in Round 2 I think. 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Straight Hucklebuck

[HappyDays]

48 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

If the Bills were able to select Hyatt and he joined the Bills, I do think part of his evaluation is the risk that he is just a faster Gabe Davis. 

 

Not just faster. He has a whole extra gear AND better hands than Davis. Those traits separate 1st round talent from 4th round talent. Also one scouting report I read said that he is also QB friendly in terms of adjusting routes and making himself an easy target. Davis is not very QB friendly IMO.

[nosejob]

1 hour ago, Figster said:

 Good point on the catch radius of Knox although being taller doesn't necessarily mean you high point a football better IMO. 

 

Fair enough...

Hate? If you look at he poll from Bills Mafia at the beginning of the thread TBD is showing its love for Gabe Davis IMO.

 Well there's a lot of negative posts on here about him

[Straight Hucklebuck]

16 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Not just faster. He has a whole extra gear AND better hands than Davis. Those traits separate 1st round talent from 4th round talent. Also one scouting report I read said that he is also QB friendly in terms of adjusting routes and making himself an easy target. Davis is not very QB friendly IMO.

Yes. 

 

If he can stop faster than a runaway train that will be an improvement on Gabe. 

 

Also, in a private workout, our Staff can judge his ability to run routes, and I'm sure his team knows that will be a consistent question, so he'll be working on that. 

 

Regardless, I'm with you, once he runs a 4.31, he won't be available in the middle of the 2nd. 

[Big Turk]

2 hours ago, Figster said:

My memories not he greatest and I'm fine with positives about Davis. Tight hips and lower body will alwys limit Gabe Davis's route running capabilities IMO. Limitions Shakir does not have IMO. Both Davis and Knox run a 4.5 or above forty. Shakir is faster then Knox, Davis and Diggs. 

 

He may have some limitations and I agree with some of it, but he also put up 832 yards and 8 TDs.  There were a lot of 2nd WRs with less than that...I am not saying we perhaps will be able to do better, but let's not pretend this dude is some scrub off the practice squad either.

Edited February 10, 2023 by Big Turk

[Figster]

2 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Until he runs a 4.31. 

 

Then magically all the GMs that saw the Combine is mostly for the medicals, will suddenly start talking about his elite speed. 

 

Then all of the sudden, Hyatt will be in the upper 1/2 of the first round. 

 Its possible Buffalo's GM Brandon Beane may need to work some magic If the Bills really want this guy. 

[nosejob]

4 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I think Round 1 WR, Round 2 OL, Round 3 OL is better than R1 OL, R2 OL, R2 WR, but as long as McDermott and Beane are stopped from continuing to pour draft resources into the defense I will be happy. 

 

You listen to these analysts and it's like we need to draft a DE, DT, S, LB, TE, we need a better RB1, and it's like guys, we have 6 picks......

 

Hodgins is not a factor. 

 

He runs a 4.64 and will never be a top WR. 

 

The top end is Housh, and the bottom end is David Nelson. 

 

He was hurt for two years. 

 

I'm not sad he's gone. 

 

On Dewand Jones, his looks like he tore up the Senior Bowl, so it's either Round 1 or trading up in Round 2 I think. 

 

 

At this point I wouldn't be mad if they took Jones at 28....or Branch... or Rice. ..( have no idea who will be there). I'm gonna trust them as long as they don't trade from 59 to 70 something for a 7th round pick. None to happy last year with the trade downs. IMO it wouldn't hurt to use next year's picks to move up....not in the 1st, but for Pete's sake drafting 28th in every round is a beeyatch.

 

However, if they can trade down from 28  to Chicago, the Texans or Cards and get a 4th and 5th at the top of those rounds, that'd be cool.

Edited February 10, 2023 by nosejob

[OldTimer1960]

5 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

If the Bills were able to select Hyatt and he joined the Bills, I do think part of his evaluation is the risk that he is just a faster Gabe Davis. 

 

It would lean into what Allen wants be ... aggressive deep thrower, but it could be limited. 

I haven’t seen drops as a criticism of Hyatt.  I think the thing that is concerning about Hyatt is that he has done little except run long from the slot and there is more to being a very good NFL WR than that.  I am confident that Hyatt can be a deep threat from the slot, but the risk is that he might not be more than that.  He might be capable of more than that, but I don’t think there is any evidence to support that.  

[blacklabel]

Can't wait to see so many people hype him up all off-season and then dump all over him after he has a season that falls below their expectations. It'll still probably be like a solid 55 receptions for 850 yards and say 5 TDs but peeps will be like, "He shoulda caught 90! Shoulda went well over 1200 yards! Bust!" But I digress...

 

As for him not playing as much as fans would like, I recall reading that he was struggling as a blocker and was still getting acclimated to the scheme and all that. He had a few mental errors earlier in the season. I'm sure he'll be fine, he seems to catch nearly everything thrown at him. I'd imagine he's well within their plans for 2023 and will get more snaps.