Bills now no longer have 2 fifths but one fifth and one sixth

[Airseven]

24 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

 

 

That's a nice example of the ole' reliable "you can manipulate stats to fit any argument."

 

Washing out of the NFL isn't the standard. Getting impact, particularly from early round picks, is the standard.  

[DrDawkinstein]

19 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is still a pretty insane number. And that is the point with Beane. He drafts very few outright busts. Most guys he picks can play in the NFL. Maybe Cody Ford might be the one exception on that list. But the others are NFL players. Where he has struggled more is drafting the difference makers. 

 

At that point, I start questioning coaching and our approach to slowly developing rookies.

 

Hard to make a difference when you dont get played. Hard to make a difference when you cant find your rhythm. And then we wonder why the guys are still slow out of the gate their second year as well. They have no momentum, and they have no urgency.

 

 

1 minute ago, Airseven said:

 

That's a nice example of the ole' reliable "you can manipulate stats to fit any argument."

 

Washing out of the NFL isn't the standard. Getting impact, particularly from early round picks, is the standard.  

 

I'd at least like to know how it compares to other teams/GMs.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

I'd at least like to know how it compares to other teams/GMs.

 

I think the Bills drafting 2017-2019 stands up to any team in the league. 2020-2022 so far feels more middle of the road. I think it was @JGMcD2 who had an interesting metric last year. I'd be interested to see those two periods broken down in that way. 

[Airseven]

4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I'd at least like to know how it compares to other teams/GMs.

 

That too. The tweet is more absurd than INSANE.

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think the Bills drafting 2017-2019 stands up to any team in the league. 2020-2022 so far feels more middle of the road. I think it was @JGMcD2 who had an interesting metric last year. I'd be interested to see those two periods broken down in that way. 

 

I dont disagree, I lean towards your side that it's still an impressive stat. But I'd still like to see how it compares in order to give it some real context.

 

I've said the same thing about Doug Whaley, when he had so many former Bills still playing in the league who had been cut from the Bills in our numerous coaching and D-scheme changes.

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I can definitely seeing us trading out of the 1st and into the 2nd, and picking up a mid/late round pick in the process. Move from 27 to somewhere around 35.

 

 

Me too. Unless someone drops to #27 that we don't expect slide back, pick up a 3rd or an early 4th. Try and end with 4 picks in the top 100 or so. You probably are not missing out on someone who is significantly better between 27 and 40 tbh. 

[ngbills]

Remember last year when many said it is great to be at a point the draft does not really matter? That did not last long. 

[SCBills]

45 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

 

 

I feel like this is such a dumb thing to hang our FO's hat on. 

 

I could care less if Beane drafts 6-7 guys per year and 3-4 of them wash out of the league if he hits on a game changer every year.

 

  He needs to hit on his Day 1 & Day 2 picks at a much higher clip.. and some of them need to be difference makers. 

 

Ed Oliver is going to be in the league for a long time.  He's a Top 10 pick that does nothing to move the needle on this Defense.   Perfect example of the roster construction issues we currently face. 

 

A lot of guys who can make rosters.  Not a lot of guys that can take over games. 

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by SCBills

[The Jokeman]

33 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Just because Zay Jones, Boogie, AJ, Zach Moss & Cody Ford are still in the NFL, those are 5 Day 2 picks that contribute nothing to the current Bills

By contrast the Cleveland Browns drafted Jabril Peppers/Baker Mayfield pn Day 1 of the draft and DeShone Kizer/Austin Corbett and Larry Ogunjobi/ChadThomas  on Day 2 and none of them to the current Browns squad. 

 

16 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

I feel like this is such a dumb thing to hang our FO's hat on. 

 

I could care less if Beane drafts 6-7 guys per year and 3-4 of them wash out of the league if he hits on a game changer every year.

 

  He needs to hit on his Day 1 & Day 2 picks at a much higher clip.. and some of them need to be difference makers. 

 

Ed Oliver is going to be in the league for a long time.  He's a Top 10 pick that does nothing to move the needle on this Defense.   Perfect example of the roster construction issues we currently face. 

 

A lot of guys who can make rosters.  Not a lot of guys that can take over games. 

 

Look at the previous regime and a lot of guys drafted were out of the NFL once they left Buffalo. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

34 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

At that point, I start questioning coaching and our approach to slowly developing rookies.

 

Hard to make a difference when you dont get played. Hard to make a difference when you cant find your rhythm. And then we wonder why the guys are still slow out of the gate their second year as well. They have no momentum, and they have no urgency.

 

 

 

I'd at least like to know how it compares to other teams/GMs.

Epenesa sucks.  Coaching isn't going to help him. Basham probably sucks too but I am willing to give him another year. 

[4merper4mer]

32 minutes ago, Airseven said:

 

That's a nice example of the ole' reliable "you can manipulate stats to fit any argument."

 

Washing out of the NFL isn't the standard. Getting impact, particularly from early round picks, is the standard.  

White 27 Allen 7 Edmunds 16 Oliver 10 Diggs sort of 22 Rousseau 30 Elam 23

 

 

 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

9 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

By contrast the Cleveland Browns drafted Jabril Peppers/Baker Mayfield pn Day 1 of the draft and DeShone Kizer/Austin Corbett and Larry Ogunjobi/ChadThomas  on Day 2 and none of them to the current Browns squad. 

 

Look at the previous regime and a lot of guys drafted were out of the NFL once they left Buffalo. 

Yes and if Cleveland or NY Jets take Allen, then Beane would have taken another QB. And most likely Beane would be out of a job by now. 

A roster this deep and this expensive needs quality over quantity.  

They should be trading out of the first round and getting an extra pick this year or next. And they should be giving away 6th and 7th round picks for higher picks the following year. Any street FA is just as good as 6th or 7th round pick. 

Beane needs to hit on those 2nd through 4th round guys if he wants continued success now. The last 5 or 6 guys on the roster can be replaced by anyone on the cheap. 

[uticaclub]

22 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

By contrast the Cleveland Browns drafted Jabril Peppers/Baker Mayfield pn Day 1 of the draft and DeShone Kizer/Austin Corbett and Larry Ogunjobi/ChadThomas  on Day 2 and none of them to the current Browns squad. 

 

Look at the previous regime and a lot of guys drafted were out of the NFL once they left Buffalo. 

Well the goal should be to be better than the Browns. The same might be said about Basham & AJ. Spencer Brown is playing himself out of the league if he continues to regress. Terrel Bernard might never see the field. Give it some time

11 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

White 27 Allen 7 Edmunds 16 Oliver 10 Diggs sort of 22 Rousseau 30 Elam 23

 

 

 

 

White was drafted before Beane got here, Oliver has yet to make a real impact & Elam was a healthy scratch most of his rookie year

Edited February 7, 2023 by uticaclub

[BADOLBILZ]

41 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Remember last year when many said it is great to be at a point the draft does not really matter? That did not last long. 

 

 

Because it always mattered.  

 

The draft is a process that comes off to some.........like fans and NFL regimes on short leashes.........as just an annual event to patch holes.

 

If you are doing it right you aren't drafting for immediate results...........but teams that do it right often get them anyway.

[4merper4mer]

3 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Well the goal should be to be better than the Browns. The same might be said about Basham & AJ. Spencer Brown is playing himself out of the league if he continues to regress. Terrel Bernard might never see the field. Give it some time

White was drafted before Beane got here, Oliver has yet to make a real impact & Elam was a healthy scratch most of his rookie year

First, comparing Mayfield at number one overall to Terel Bernard is pretty funny but lacks logic.

 

My original quote citing draft results was from 2017.  Although Beane wasn’t here, it is certainly a given that the current “regime” started then.  Why wouldn’t you start by picking any other team in the NFL and listing their first round picks since then?  If Beane has been the failure that you claim, you should EASILY be able to pull 10 or so teams drafts since then and compare.  Our average slot for these 7 picks was 19.2.  That also comes into play.  Your assessment of both Oliver and Elam is also way off but maybe that is for another thread.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

At that point, I start questioning coaching and our approach to slowly developing rookies.

 

Hard to make a difference when you dont get played. Hard to make a difference when you cant find your rhythm. And then we wonder why the guys are still slow out of the gate their second year as well. They have no momentum, and they have no urgency.

 

 

 

I'd at least like to know how it compares to other teams/GMs.

This!

[gonzo1105]

What was the damn condition on the pick? Hines didn't play a ton. Was it based on how many games he was active? He really only played ST

[DrDawkinstein]

7 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

First, comparing Mayfield at number one overall to Terel Bernard is pretty funny but lacks logic.

 

 

I'd rather have Bernard. 🤣

[BADOLBILZ]

21 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Epenesa sucks.  Coaching isn't going to help him. Basham probably sucks too but I am willing to give him another year. 

 

 

Why are you willing to give Basham another year and not Epenesa?    Epenesa is a year younger than Boogie...........and basically tripled his sack production and had twice the QB hits,  forced a couple fumbles and did it all lining up against LT's.   

 

Basham was an over-ripe prospect and his slow start should be quite discouraging.    I'm not happy with Epenesa and he's entering his walk year and given his slow development I find it hard to envision him having a place going forward whether he puts up 2 sacks or 20 next season..........but at this point Boogie is a "surprise cut" kinda' candidate.

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, uticaclub said:

His draft record

 

Can you provide more context?  I know it is easy to look at a draft pick like say Ed Oliver and now say he should have drafted Jeff Simmons.  But the analysis that shows he is or is not a good GM needs to be done by comparing against his peers.  The Bills have a very large percentage of draft picks since Beane took over on the team and the team is widely regarded as one of the better rosters.  I am willing to listen to an argument that says something else but what is it?