Who's our slot WR in 2023, Shakir or...?

[LABILLBACKER]

21 hours ago, Hsker4life said:

In the limited time we saw Shakir, I was impressed. I don’t know what kept the coaches from playing him more though.

I do....stupidity....Andy would've encorporated Shakir into his offense immediately.  Dorsey was like a newborn having no clue what to do and it showed.  Letting the guys run street ball deep ball with little to no discipline taking advantage of checkdowns ( other than weeks 1-2).  

 

Shakir needs to be the slot guy getting 80% of the plays. I'm cutting Crowder, that experiment failed. I might keep Beasley around long enough to mentor Shakir.  Davis takes on the WR4 role as our WR2 will have to come from 1st or 2nd round.

[Jim]

21 hours ago, Process said:

Hopefully Shakir. I wish we saw more of him this year so we could know if he's the guy. 

 

McKenzie should be cut. Zero reason to keep him when we could save $2M cap space. He offers nothing that can't easily be replaced. 

But then we will only have Dawkins to make silly Twitter videos! And it seems like that is very important to his this team. Certainly more important than running good routes or, you know, catching the ball.

[Jim]

10 hours ago, T master said:

I feel Bease would be our best bet not only in that he would be cheap but he is all about the team 

We talking about the guy who was a distraction for basically the entire ‘21 season? That guy? 
 

For the record btw before anyone jumps on me I don’t care about how Covid opinions. But to say he’s a team guy after nearly going out of his way to be a distraction is just disingenuous to me.

[CincyBillsFan]

I can't be the only one thinking that Beasley's new enthusiasm for playing with the Bills is a result of his coming back, looking around the WR room and saying "damn, the cupboard is bare around here".  To me Beasley thinking he can still contribute at a high level in Buffalo is even more damning about our lack of WR talent then the late season signing of him and Brown.

 

 

 

 

[Mikie2times]

18 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I can't be the only one thinking that Beasley's new enthusiasm for playing with the Bills is a result of his coming back, looking around the WR room and saying "damn, the cupboard is bare around here".  To me Beasley thinking he can still contribute at a high level in Buffalo is even more damning about our lack of WR talent then the late season signing of him and Brown.

 

 

 

 

He still ran a couple really sexy routes. He's excellent on slants. We had nothing like him to replace what he did this year. Sure, that is telling, but he is a very specific type of player and seemed to have great rapport with Josh. Shame on us for thinking that was so disposable.  

[Norcalbillsfan]

We need Beasley or Crowder back on a cheap deal. Slot has proven to be waaaay too important to joshs game than to hope Shakir can do it and do it well. Too much money needs to be spent on a real #wr2 to be able to go out and also get a great slot reciever. I would sign Beasley for cheap and draft a slot reciever and let him learn from Beasley or Start getting Shakir more slot time with Beasley. But letting Beasley and Crowder walk and hoping Shakir can just step in can't be the option.

[ghostwriter]

1 hour ago, vincec said:

I don’t see the Bills drafting a WR early. I fully expect a defensive pick. And as much as is sucks to write it, they actually need help there too, especially if they lose Poyer and/or Edmunds. That would leave serious holes at all three levels.

Sad thing is, this may possibly be the truth.

🔥😡🔥😡🔥

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

21 hours ago, Buftex said:

I know most have been disgruntled with the coaching staff. I'm not as down on them as many, but I have always been a little frustrated with their reluctance to work other players in to the lineup...especially on offense. To my view, Shakir, Cook, Hines and McKenzie were all under-utilized this year. Not to mention all of the guys they have had stashed on the PS over the last few years that never saw any real action. How nice would it have been to have Isaiah Hodgins down the stretch? As the season went on, it was so evident that they needed some new energy in the offense...but the coaches never seemed willing to try anything different.

We do...but solidifying the slot role is a pretty big priority, if we are going to be a passing team,

I understand your point about Hines/Shakir/Cook not being used enough, but McKenzie was downright horrible last year and should’ve seen the field even less than he did. I can’t even count how many times he’s dropped the ball in crucial situations. He’s much more effective on plays where it doesn’t involve catching the ball. 
 

As far as the original post…I think the Bills should roll the dice w/ Crowder and Beasley (who had some pretty nice catches in the Miami game) while Shakir continues to develop as the future. The Bills actually have a decent amount of options at the slot. 

[Nephilim17]

More than one person has alluded to Crowder being injury prone.

 

Here's his career games per season:

16

16

15

9

16

12

12

4

 

Really, the broken ankle this past year was his worst season and I don't think it's the same like a chronic soft-tissue injury some players keep getting. So take out that one season and was very reliable for three seasons, then just played 9 games, then followed that up with a full season, and then two 75% seasons. 

Not horrible. And if I was making the decisions, he would back up Shakir, not start, so availability wouldn't be quite as essential and he'd get fewer reps and chance for injury. I think his veteran presence with Shakir — if he's that kind of player to mentor a younger player — would be beneficial. Beasley would be great in this respect but at 34 in a couple months I think his legs are gone.

I don't think McKenzie could mentor a 10-year-old, let alone another pro player. 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

1 minute ago, Nephilim17 said:

More than one person has alluded to Crowder being injury prone.

 

Here's his career games per season:

16

16

15

9

16

12

12

4

 

Really, the broken ankle this past year was his worst season and I don't think it's the same like a chronic soft-tissue injury some players keep getting. So take out that one season and was very reliable for three seasons, then just played 9 games, then followed that up with a full season, and then two 75% seasons. 

Not horrible. And if I was making the decisions, he would back up Shakir, not start, so availability wouldn't be quite as essential and he'd get fewer reps and chance for injury. I think his veteran presence with Shakir — if he's that kind of player to mentor a younger player — would be beneficial. Beasley would be great in this respect but at 34 in a couple months I think his legs are gone.

I don't think McKenzie could mentor a 10-year-old, let alone another pro player. 

 

 I'd rather have Beasley and at his age I don't want him tbh. Crowder has played a full season once in the last 5 years, missing nearly 2 full seasons worth of games in that span.

 

Or I'd rather keep McKenzie even and I don't want him either. But he caught 2/3 of the balls thrown his way and 74% of his catches went for 1st downs or tds(31/42). A percentage Crowder has never came close to.

 

 

 

 

 

[Nephilim17]

4 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 I'd rather have Beasley and at his age I don't want him tbh. Crowder has played a full season once in the last 5 years, missing nearly 2 full seasons worth of games in that span.

 

Or I'd rather keep McKenzie even and I don't want him either. But he caught 2/3 of the balls thrown his way and 74% of his catches went for 1st downs or tds(31/42). A percentage Crowder has never came close to.

 

 

 

 

 

Crowder had a 71.8% catch percentage in 2021 (12th best of all WRs in the NFL, not just slot guys) and has a history of catching way more balls than McKenzie. He has over 3 times the career yardage at 29 years old.

I believe Crowder does better in the slot next year than McKenzie will, whatever teams they're on. We'll see...

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I can't be the only one thinking that Beasley's new enthusiasm for playing with the Bills is a result of his coming back, looking around the WR room and saying "damn, the cupboard is bare around here".  To me Beasley thinking he can still contribute at a high level in Buffalo is even more damning about our lack of WR talent then the late season signing of him and Brown.

 

 

 

 

Exactly...that's why we have to draft 2 wrs in April. When you start re-animating these old wrs that screams desperation. 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

1 minute ago, Nephilim17 said:

Crowder had a 71.8% catch percentage in 2021 (12th best of all WRs in the NFL, not just slot guys) and has a history of catching way more balls than McKenzie. He has over 3 times the career yardage at 29 years old.

I believe Crowder does better in the slot next year than McKenzie will, whatever teams they're on. We'll see...

 

 Crowder better do alot in those 6 games he plays before getting injured again next year. Too late, he just got injured while reading this post. 😂

 

I was referring to the 74% of McKenzie catches going for 1st downs or tds. He does more when he touches the ball than Crowder does. He has more tds and the same 1st downs as Crowder over the last 3 years even though he was a part timer/gadget player for 2 of those seasons. That doesn't even count the additional benefit of running the ball. Like I said I don't want any of them, but Crowder is a distant 3rd between those 3. Why would anyone want to re-sign a guy who's shown he can't stay healthy?

 

 

 

 

[Nephilim17]

26 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 Crowder better do alot in those 6 games he plays before getting injured again next year. Too late, he just got injured while reading this post. 😂

 

I was referring to the 74% of McKenzie catches going for 1st downs or tds. He does more when he touches the ball than Crowder does. He has more tds and the same 1st downs as Crowder over the last 3 years even though he was a part timer/gadget player for 2 of those seasons. That doesn't even count the additional benefit of running the ball. Like I said I don't want any of them, but Crowder is a distant 3rd between those 3. Why would anyone want to re-sign a guy who's shown he can't stay healthy?

 

 

 

 

I can see that McKenzie might get more YAC than Crowder but I firmly believe that Crowder will catch a lot more balls and that's more important, I believe for slot guy — make the catch and move the chains.

And without last season, Crowder averaged, drum roll please... 14 games per season over his career. I think that's staying pretty healthy over 7 seasons.I think the broken ankle is more outlier than a constant. 

I'm not going to be one of these "fans" who would rather be right but at the expense of our team losing so if McKenzie comes back, I hope he builds on his success. At any rate neither McKenzie nor Crowder should start next year and that's good news. I hope.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

6 minutes ago, Nephilim17 said:

I can see that McKenzie might get more YAC than Crowder but I firmly believe that Crowder will catch a lot more balls and that's more important, I believe for slot guy — make the catch and move the chains.

And without last season, Crowder averaged, drum roll please... 14 games per season over his career. I think that's staying pretty healthy over 7 seasons.I think the broken ankle is more outlier than a constant. 

I'm not going to be one of these "fans" who would rather be right but at the expense of our team losing so if McKenzie comes back, I hope he builds on his success. At any rate neither McKenzie nor Crowder should start next year and that's good news. I hope.

 

 That's not how it works. Yes his first 3 years in the league he stayed healthy, but he's shown the opposite since. He missed a minimum of 25% of the season in 4 of the last 5 years, 7, 0 4, 5 & 12 games missed over that time. There is no minimizing that fact. He'll be 30 in June and based on the last several years, his best days are behind him. We have no cap space for players that can't stay healthy. 

 

 

 

[BuffaloTX]

Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!Shakir!!!  My head hurts...

Edited February 8, 2023 by BuffaloTX

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I do....stupidity....Andy would've encorporated Shakir into his offense immediately.  Dorsey was like a newborn having no clue what to do and it showed.  Letting the guys run street ball deep ball with little to no discipline taking advantage of checkdowns ( other than weeks 1-2).  

 

Shakir needs to be the slot guy getting 80% of the plays. I'm cutting Crowder, that experiment failed. I might keep Beasley around long enough to mentor Shakir.  Davis takes on the WR4 role as our WR2 will have to come from 1st or 2nd round.

 

Like Andy incorporated his rookie 2nd round pick Skyy Moore? Shakir played the exact same % of the Bills offensive snaps that Moore did KC's - 29%. He didn't play more snaps because at times, especially early, he struggled to separate. It's there on tape. 

[HappyDays]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Like Andy incorporated his rookie 2nd round pick Skyy Moore? Shakir played the exact same % of the Bills offensive snaps that Moore did KC's - 29%. He didn't play more snaps because at times, especially early, he struggled to separate. It's there on tape. 

 

KC has weirdly not drafted skill position players well in the Mahomes era, luckily for the rest of the league. Moore had a poor rookie season both as a WR and as a punt returner. Clyde Edwards-Helaire is a 1st round bust and they could have had Tee Higgins or Jonathan Taylor with that pick. Mecole Hardman as a 2nd round pick is somewhat underwhelming for his draft position especially considering DK Metcalf and Terry McLaurin were drafted soon after. Give the Chiefs any one of those players and their offense might be unstoppable right now. Looks like they finally hit one with Pacheco in the 7th.

[Bookie Man]

Greg Dortch 

[I'm Spartacus]

18 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Still, unreasonable to expect every draft pick to be good.  You can think it is an egregious miss if a 5th round pick doesn’t become a starter, but that isn’t realistic to expect.

Enough already - you win! Apparently your opinions on this board is gospel. Here's to a dynamite draft...go Bills!