How did the Patriots maintain a top team for 17 years?

[Airseven]

I'll give you one guess.

[Fan in Chicago]

Besides the obvious reason of Brady, the Pats also had elite players on defense and a good OL. Also, BB's teams are very disciplined and held their nerve in pressure situations. Think about how many times opposing teams threw away their chances in close games with untimely fumbles, interceptions or poor coaching decisions. BB managed games very well. 

I contend that if BB was the Bills' coach instead of McD, we would have at least one ring by now (with Allen ofc). 

 

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

People have made this argument for a long time but Brady signed at least his first contract extension before marrying Giselle. 

 

Brady just cared more about winning than he did being the richest player. 

 

Gotta admire that.

 

Yep.

 

Brady was incredibly generous to the Patriots.

 

It would be awesome if Allen did the same, but again, I don't blame him. 

And Tom was willing to knowingly cheat at every opportunity to achieve that…, nothing to be proud off or admire there, 

[Einstein]

3 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

And Tom was willing to knowingly cheat at every opportunity to achieve that…, nothing to be proud off or admire there, 

 

I choose not to participate in the sore loser cheating stuff.

[FITZamishRIFLE]

Brady took less because Kraft stuffed his pockets via his TB12 company.  Why is this a secret?

[PrimeTime101]

I would argue that the patriots maintained because after the first 5 years, they made the offensive line priority one. 

[Don Otreply]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

 

I choose not to participate in the sore loser cheating stuff.

Not a sore loser, the Bills teams were horrible in those years, that’s just a fact. I just don’t admire people who cheat at their life’s work, Tom and Bill had great success during those years, but any honest person knows they blatantly cheated on a regular basis during those years, and nothing I say or do will change any of that. 

[Rigotz]

7 hours ago, Gregg said:

Brady the GOAT, Belichick the GOAT. Built a solid roster around #12. The Bills, Dolphins, Jets = Three stooges. Division was a joke as NE would usually have it clinched by late Oct/ early Nov. Because of it they usually had the #1 or #2 seed so they rarely had to play on WC weekend.

 

Brady, some cheating, and Belichick as an above average coach.

 

Calling Belichick the GOAT when he's 79-88 without Tom Brady is a little much.

If he was truly the greatest, he wouldn't needed the greatest player of all time to be above .500.

 

Feel free to disagree... but they were a dumpster fire last year and have been spending every dollar of their cap on the exact players Belichick wants ... and still zero playoff wins.

[Success]

1 hour ago, PrimeTime101 said:

I would argue that the patriots maintained because after the first 5 years, they made the offensive line priority one. 

 

That, to me, is the biggest part of their blueprint.  

 

We shouldn't try to re-invent the wheel. When you have a top QB, you invest in the line.  Allen won't need elite wideouts if he has time in the pocket (not that I don't want elite wideouts, but O-line comes first).

 

[Mikie2times]

If they compromised the rules to achieve anything I'm about to say, so be it. I'm not posting to talk about that concept.

 

1. Brady and the offensive system, Brady was able to get a football out faster and with more precision than anybody. He often had a strong offensive line. He played with some elite players at times. But the Patriots also showed they did not need these things to win a Super Bowl. They won super bowls with nearly zero offensive talent early in  his career.

 

2. Who did they compete against? Manning was not a playoff QB. Once in awhile the Steelers would flash. Outside of that, they had a cakewalk division and fairly easy conference to contend with for nearly 20 years. 

 

3. Bill B. ran a 3-4 but his philosophy is so multiple. He changes his system every week for the opponent he is playing. Teams could never get ahead of it fully. Where is counter parts of the time were pretty clear cut. The Colts were going to play a similar style to Buffalo. The Steelers were going to run a very aggressive 3-4. Most teams were scheme dependent, still are. 

 

4. Closing out games. You score with a minute left, you lose. You leave time on the clock, you lose. You had to win by more than a TD or have the ball last. Mahomes has been good in this regard. Allen and Burrow as well, but nobody compares to those teams. Anybody who watched those teams for 20 years knows the depths of what I'm saying. They could be down 7 with a minute and 80 yards to go and they should be a favorite. 

 

5. Incredible amount of luck. For Brady to even become Brady. You saw the huge gap in the middle of the dynasty. Winning allows for a lot of things to happen, especially the way it happened. I mean, in many minds, New England was the underdog for several of those initial Super Bowl runs. I would say the Bills were more widely considered a favorite this year than any of those initial super bowls New England won. The environment was perfect and the amount of random beneficial occurrences (which is why people didn't believe them to be as good as they were) compiled. Goal line Super Bowl INT's, all time SB comebacks, game winning kicks, tuck rule, the list goes on. Eventually, later in the run, they no longer needed the luck. They were very good. Early on, they needed some help. Many will also say you make your own luck and I won't argue that point.  

[PrimeTime101]

39 minutes ago, Success said:

 

That, to me, is the biggest part of their blueprint.  

 

We shouldn't try to re-invent the wheel. When you have a top QB, you invest in the line.  Allen won't need elite wideouts if he has time in the pocket (not that I don't want elite wideouts, but O-line comes first).

 

bingo. I have been saying this for 2 years. This is our GM and Coaching Biggest Failure.

[PatsFanNH]

2 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

And Tom was willing to knowingly cheat at every opportunity to achieve that…, nothing to be proud off or admire there, 

Ahh a man who bought the NFL Propaganda hook line and sinker… lol I mean it only helped increase people watching the games  the games aren’t rigged but if you don’t think the NFL sets up teams be the bad ya and the good guys you just aren’t paying attention!

[PrimeTime101]

15 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Ahh a man who bought the NFL Propaganda hook line and sinker… lol I mean it only helped increase people watching the games  the games aren’t rigged but if you don’t think the NFL sets up teams be the bad ya and the good guys you just aren’t paying attention!

Welcome Pats Fan. Let's have the conversation, ok?

 

1. DId NE Cheat? IF so, how many times during the Brady years.

2. Did Brady cheat. If so, how many times did Brady cheat? 

 

Answer these questions and I will dig into your reply here. Please and Thanks

[hjnick]

9 hours ago, Success said:

I thought it might be interesting to put our loathing aside and really analyze how they pulled it off.  What they did is what I want the Bills to do - dominate for many years, and as long as they have Allen at QB.

 

They didn't have the ebb & flow that a team normally has, even w/ a top QB.  Their window was wide open for most of those 17 years. They made 9 SB's, and probably should have made 1-2 more.  My own thoughts:

 

1) Obviously, Brady took less pay so the team could afford better players.  I still don't see that being as impactful as it's made out to be - he was still paid a lot.

2) Aging vet stars took pay cuts just to play w/ Brady. Will we see that w/ Allen?

3) The Patriots made very few investments in bigtime skill players.  Moss was the exception, not the rule.

4) One of the hallmarks of Belichick was letting players walk before they started to decline.  Almost exactly what we're looking at w/ Poyer.

5) Their biggest priority, year after year, was making sure the O-line was strong.  That's just what you do when you have a top QB.

 

Still, the run is somewhat mystifying.  Belichick was not a great drafter, which is usually needed once a QB gets past the rookie contract.  Superior coaching clearly played a part. I think BB got the best out of his players (which is something we aren't doing right now - we see players leave the Bills and perform better than they did here).

 

Thoughts?

 

Brady could read defenses and get his team into the right play to take advantage.  He didn't have a problem dumping the ball for a 5 yard gain...

 

Belicheat can coach a defense REALLY WELL!

[PBF81]

5 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

The AFC East was an absolutely HUGE reason.

None of the other teams had a franchise QB (much less an elite one) during the entire length of the Patriots championship run.  They pretty much had a guaranteed Division title every single season.  And with 5-6 easy wins, it was much easier for them to get a bye in the first round (back when they had two).  New England rarely ran into another elite QB (Peyton Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Phillip Rivers) until the Championship round.  

 

While most teams fell into the salary cap and age issue, the Patriots purposely built their roster to get around that pitfall.

 

The playmakers on New England were generally the Tight End and Slot Receiver... two of the lowest paid positions in the NFL.  O-Line was always a priority in the draft.  They drafted LOTS of running backs and cycled through them constantly, so they never had to pay one big bucks.  Outside of Randy Moss, they never really splurged on a flashy outside receiver either.  

 

On defense, Bill Belichick looked for bargains and often let his stars walk.  Then he would build a defense AROUND the talents/skills he had on the roster, instead of splurging on free agents to fit his scheme.

 

Mix all that with a Hall of Fame QB who seemingly never aged, and was willing to accept a contract well below market value.

 

And it all worked because of Brady.  Belichick has sucked moose balls as a HC w/o Brady.  He was 41-43 in the regular season in five seasons with Bledsoe or Cassel, with only one playoff appearance, a Wild Card Round loss to us, a blowout.  In Cleveland he was 36-44 in the regular season, 1-1 in the playoffs with his only win, ironically, over the Bledsoe-led Patriots before getting annihilated by the Neil O'Donnell led Steelers.  In his three playoffs, he was outscored by a total of 46-89, or an average of 15-30.  

 

In total, he was 77-87 in the regular season in ten seasons w/o Brady, and 1-2 in the playoffs with miserable performances therein.  He made the playoffs only twice in ten seasons, both times ending in miserable failure with the third worst loss in the '94 playoffs and the worst loss in the '21 playoffs.  

 

Belichick should have an enormous lifesize bust of Brady by his front door to praise before he leaves home every day, alongside a poster of all of the coaches and GMs for the Bills, Jets, and Fins during that stretch.  

 

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by PBF81

[Goin Breakdown]

10 hours ago, I am the egg man said:

There’s only one reason. Hate away haters, rev up your excuse machines…..

…..it rings hollow to the countless who know he is simply the greatest.

A simple "Brady" would have been sufficient. 

[FitzShowUsYourTitz]

11 hours ago, Success said:

I thought it might be interesting to put our loathing aside and really analyze how they pulled it off.  What they did is what I want the Bills to do - dominate for many years, and as long as they have Allen at QB.

 

They didn't have the ebb & flow that a team normally has, even w/ a top QB.  Their window was wide open for most of those 17 years. They made 9 SB's, and probably should have made 1-2 more.  My own thoughts:

 

1) Obviously, Brady took less pay so the team could afford better players.  I still don't see that being as impactful as it's made out to be - he was still paid a lot.

2) Aging vet stars took pay cuts just to play w/ Brady. Will we see that w/ Allen?

3) The Patriots made very few investments in bigtime skill players.  Moss was the exception, not the rule.

4) One of the hallmarks of Belichick was letting players walk before they started to decline.  Almost exactly what we're looking at w/ Poyer.

5) Their biggest priority, year after year, was making sure the O-line was strong.  That's just what you do when you have a top QB.

 

Still, the run is somewhat mystifying.  Belichick was not a great drafter, which is usually needed once a QB gets past the rookie contract.  Superior coaching clearly played a part. I think BB got the best out of his players (which is something we aren't doing right now - we see players leave the Bills and perform better than they did here).

 

Thoughts?

Cheating. 
It was real

iit was documented 

It needs to be on this list

For real

[PatsFanNH]

1 hour ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Welcome Pats Fan. Let's have the conversation, ok?

 

1. DId NE Cheat? IF so, how many times during the Brady years.

2. Did Brady cheat. If so, how many times did Brady cheat? 

 

Answer these questions and I will dig into your reply here. Please and Thanks

Lmao now you wanna dig into it. Spygate.. made a huge deal over where they were filming.. (which actually fixed the NFL for the better by having plays called into the D like the O) deflategate over PSI in the ball, which was filled with lies by the commissioner, a Lab that was discredited years ago, and my favorite disinformation never corrected like ALL the balls were very low.. when in fact only one was.. So yes you fell for it hook line and sinker.. fact is everyone did it and it only mattered to make people like you Hate the pats more so you would watch the playoffs even if your teams out of it just to cheer for the other team to beat them. Now you may not have but the ratings prove a lot of people did.  

6 minutes ago, Fred Marchibroda said:

Cheating. 
It was real

iit was documented 

It needs to be on this list

For real

Lmao read into what the actual “cheating” was:

 

Spygate — was about WHERE they filmed not that they were filming. (Most people fail to remember that)

 

Deflategate — As I pointed out was blown out of proportion and was done poorly.. good enough get people want to hate them believe than and for their fans to easily discredit.. brilliant really!

 

NFL thanks you for accepting their choice of a bad guy.. Now that the Pats are no longer Elite who will the new bad guys be?? Hmm my money is on the Bengals. 

[Mikie2times]

19 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Lmao now you wanna dig into it. Spygate.. made a huge deal over where they were filming.. (which actually fixed the NFL for the better by having plays called into the D like the O) deflategate over PSI in the ball, which was filled with lies by the commissioner, a Lab that was discredited years ago, and my favorite disinformation never corrected like ALL the balls were very low.. when in fact only one was.. So yes you fell for it hook line and sinker.. fact is everyone did it and it only mattered to make people like you Hate the pats more so you would watch the playoffs even if your teams out of it just to cheer for the other team to beat them. Now you may not have but the ratings prove a lot of people did.  

Lmao read into what the actual “cheating” was:

 

Spygate — was about WHERE they filmed not that they were filming. (Most people fail to remember that)

 

Deflategate — As I pointed out was blown out of proportion and was done poorly.. good enough get people want to hate them believe than and for their fans to easily discredit.. brilliant really!

 

NFL thanks you for accepting their choice of a bad guy.. Now that the Pats are no longer Elite who will the new bad guys be?? Hmm my money is on the Bengals. 

If you catch a kid stealing a pack a gum and he says "this is the first time, it will never happen again". If you pull over a drunk driver and he says "this is the first time, it will never happen again". Point is, once somebody shows a willingness to do something, even multiple somethings, it makes you wonder, is it really the first time? I give the Patriots credit for what they did and I don't diminish it at all as a result of what happened. That said, do you really think everything they tried was revealed to us or even discovered? What we know about is what they were caught doing. What weren't they caught doing? 

Edited February 7, 2023 by KzooMike

[chongli]

3 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

Ahh a man who bought the NFL Propaganda hook line and sinker… lol I mean it only helped increase people watching the games  the games aren’t rigged but if you don’t think the NFL sets up teams be the bad ya and the good guys you just aren’t paying attention!

 

 

Ok, the Pats wee the victim here. The NFL is rigged then. 

 

Take this whining to the Pats board. I thought you were a good poster.

Edited February 7, 2023 by chongli