How did the Patriots maintain a top team for 17 years?

[chongli]

12 hours ago, Success said:

 

5) Their biggest priority, year after year, was making sure the O-line was strong.  That's just what you do when you have a top QB.

 

 

11 hours ago, 947 said:

They built a passing offense based on getting the ball out in 1.5 seconds, so they could still excel without top dollar O-line players & spend their big money on other areas.

 

These are good points, but I am wondering is there a contradiction here, or can these both be true?

 

Also, what can McBeane learn from the Patriots?

 

Find a way to get the most out of players and play better situational football?

Don't spend top dollars on free agents (like Von??)

Build up your offensive line?

Edited February 7, 2023 by chongli

[HugeHeffner11]

11 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

Played in a weak division 

had Tom Brady on a low contract

were able to get free agents on cheap deals so they could win a Super Bowl 

 

[HugeHeffner11]

Just now, HugeHeffner11 said:

They didn't cheap out when they hired their brass.  All their coaches, the GM, and everyone else in the upper part of the organization are top notch. Success starts at the top.  Strong leadership goes a long way in building a team.  It all starts at the top. 

 

[HugeHeffner11]

11 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

The rest of your points are valid, but I think that this one is paramount.  I'll list the QBs in our division on the Jets, Fins, and us during Brady's years in NE before Brady left, and not including Allen's first couple of seasons where he wasn't good.  Look at the number of different starting QBs in that 19-year stretch.  

 

Bills:  Van Pelt, Bledsoe, Holcomb, Losman, Edwards, Fitzpatrick, Manuel, Orton, and Taylor 

Fins:  Fiedler, Feeley, Frerotte, Harrington, Lemon, Pennington, Henne, Moore, Tannehill, Cutler, and Fitzpatrick 

Jets:  Testeverde (old), Pennington, Bollinger, Favre (old), Sanchez, Smith, Fitzpatrick, McCown, and Darnold  

 

None of 'em were any good when they were on those teams.  

 

That's an easy 6-games/season that are typically "tough division games" that weren't tough for NE.  

Yeah, playing the Bills was like New England had two extra bye weeks every year.

[TheWeatherMan]

9 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

I agreed with everything till you said the commissioner in Krafts pocket. Ya the harshest punishment TWICE in NFL history with the second one being open for discussion with how the NFL did it. (commissioner lying, using a hack lab, lying about getting the data from Brady phone). I don’t consider that being on the pocket, but I do believe the NFL exaggerated everything to make the Patriots the villain of the NFL to pump up watch numbers.

Yet Kraft is always Rogers #1 ally come owners meetings and even invites him to his wedding?  Sorry, doesn’t pass the sniff test.  

[PrimeTime101]

2 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

Lmao now you wanna dig into it. Spygate.. made a huge deal over where they were filming.. (which actually fixed the NFL for the better by having plays called into the D like the O) deflategate over PSI in the ball, which was filled with lies by the commissioner, a Lab that was discredited years ago, and my favorite disinformation never corrected like ALL the balls were very low.. when in fact only one was.. So yes you fell for it hook line and sinker.. fact is everyone did it and it only mattered to make people like you Hate the pats more so you would watch the playoffs even if your teams out of it just to cheer for the other team to beat them. Now you may not have but the ratings prove a lot of people did.  

Lmao read into what the actual “cheating” was:

 

Spygate — was about WHERE they filmed not that they were filming. (Most people fail to remember that)

 

Deflategate — As I pointed out was blown out of proportion and was done poorly.. good enough get people want to hate them believe than and for their fans to easily discredit.. brilliant really!

 

NFL thanks you for accepting their choice of a bad guy.. Now that the Pats are no longer Elite who will the new bad guys be?? Hmm my money is on the Bengals. 

I have had plenty of honest conversations with honest pat fans. 20+ I would say, as i visit AFCE podcasts often and I have been on NE Pats pods a few times to know when someone wants the honest conversation and when someone toe steps past the topics like you just did. When you are ready to be honest with yourself and people with this board? let me know.

[BobbyC81]

14 hours ago, MJS said:

You can divide their years into three different buckets:

 

Early dominance: 2001 to 2004. They won 3 superbowls in 4 years.

 

Middle Less Dominant: 2005 to 2013. No superbowl wins. They were somewhat like our Bills today, not getting over the hump in the playoffs. They were even one-and-done in the playoffs two times during this stretch. They did get there twice, but lost to the Giants both times.

 

Late Dominance: 2014 to 2020. Everything clicked again for a few years. They won 4 more superbowls during this stretch.

 

Tom Brady is the big reason they won so much. He is the GOAT. He also took a discount for much of those years. They also had successful schemes and knew how to bring in role players to fit specific roles in the offense. They didn't always draft particularly well, but they were good at bringing in value free agents and made trades or signed big time players at the right time to help get over the hump (Wes Welker, Randy Moss, Stephon Gilmore, etc.)

Yeah, it was worse as 20 years, not the 17 the OP said.

[NastyNateSoldiers]

17 hours ago, Success said:

I thought it might be interesting to put our loathing aside and really analyze how they pulled it off.  What they did is what I want the Bills to do - dominate for many years, and as long as they have Allen at QB.

 

They didn't have the ebb & flow that a team normally has, even w/ a top QB.  Their window was wide open for most of those 17 years. They made 9 SB's, and probably should have made 1-2 more.  My own thoughts:

 

1) Obviously, Brady took less pay so the team could afford better players.  I still don't see that being as impactful as it's made out to be - he was still paid a lot.

2) Aging vet stars took pay cuts just to play w/ Brady. Will we see that w/ Allen?

3) The Patriots made very few investments in bigtime skill players.  Moss was the exception, not the rule.

4) One of the hallmarks of Belichick was letting players walk before they started to decline.  Almost exactly what we're looking at w/ Poyer.

5) Their biggest priority, year after year, was making sure the O-line was strong.  That's just what you do when you have a top QB.

 

Still, the run is somewhat mystifying.  Belichick was not a great drafter, which is usually needed once a QB gets past the rookie contract.  Superior coaching clearly played a part. I think BB got the best out of his players (which is something we aren't doing right now - we see players leave the Bills and perform better than they did here).

 

Thoughts?

Belicheck knew when to move on from players he’d either trade them a yr before they hit free agency or cut them outright. They also took advantage of players that we’re available due to so called bad character issues once he had that culture in place. Now that strategy didn’t always pan out but they took there swings when they could. 
 

The Pats were also never really married to one strategy or system they always seemed to be one step ahead of there opponents. Which made it very hard for teams to prepare for them. If defenses put to many secondary players on the field to stop the pass Belicheck would just trample u with the run all day and vise versa with the pass . They were married to winning not systems. Plus the Pats always were good in the trenches. They were a physical team a smart team and aggressive . 

[HamSandwhich]

Don’t you mean, “How did the Patriots Manipulate the league to maintain…?l

Edited February 7, 2023 by HamSandwhich

[PatsFanNH]

8 hours ago, chongli said:

 

 

Ok, the Pats wee the victim here. The NFL is rigged then. 

 

Take this whining to the Pats board. I thought you were a good poster.

Lol no they agreed to it I’m sure. Also it isn’t rigged I never said that! I said they promoted the Pats as the VILLAIN!  They took something small and insignificant and blew it way out of proportion to get them hated.. anyone knows me here knows I embraced the dark side my team came to be known as.. I call BB the Emperor and Brady Vader.. lol it’s actually good for the league because everyone wants a villain.. made the good guys more fun cheer for like the Colts and Broncos… or especially the Giants..   NO victims here and again it isn’t rigged the outcome is unknown.. they just want increase viewership.. I mean before them the best bad guy was the Raiders.

[Matt_In_NH]

8 hours ago, chongli said:

 

 

These are good points, but I am wondering is there a contradiction here, or can these both be true?

 

Also, what can McBeane learn from the Patriots?

 

Find a way to get the most out of players and play better situational football?

Don't spend top dollars on free agents (like Von??)

Build up your offensive line?

I think when it comes to offense they were more balanced and favored less volatility in play design and execution vs trying to be spectacular all the time even when you are.  

[Don Otreply]

12 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

Ahh a man who bought the NFL Propaganda hook line and sinker… lol I mean it only helped increase people watching the games  the games aren’t rigged but if you don’t think the NFL sets up teams be the bad ya and the good guys you just aren’t paying attention!

Coming from a pats fan roaming around on another teams board…, 

[PromoTheRobot]

21 hours ago, Success said:

I thought it might be interesting to put our loathing aside and really analyze how they pulled it off.  What they did is what I want the Bills to do - dominate for many years, and as long as they have Allen at QB.

 

They didn't have the ebb & flow that a team normally has, even w/ a top QB.  Their window was wide open for most of those 17 years. They made 9 SB's, and probably should have made 1-2 more.  My own thoughts:

 

1) Obviously, Brady took less pay so the team could afford better players.  I still don't see that being as impactful as it's made out to be - he was still paid a lot.

2) Aging vet stars took pay cuts just to play w/ Brady. Will we see that w/ Allen?

3) The Patriots made very few investments in bigtime skill players.  Moss was the exception, not the rule.

4) One of the hallmarks of Belichick was letting players walk before they started to decline.  Almost exactly what we're looking at w/ Poyer.

5) Their biggest priority, year after year, was making sure the O-line was strong.  That's just what you do when you have a top QB.

 

Still, the run is somewhat mystifying.  Belichick was not a great drafter, which is usually needed once a QB gets past the rookie contract.  Superior coaching clearly played a part. I think BB got the best out of his players (which is something we aren't doing right now - we see players leave the Bills and perform better than they did here).

 

Thoughts?

Also...

 

> A great front office led by GM in Scott Pioli.

 

> A strategic savant in Ernie Adams who figured out the loopholes in the NFL rules and how to skirt them.

[Repulsif]

21 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Pats never choked when it mattered.  Their opponents almost always flinched and committed the grave mistake.  Belichick never beat himself.  It wasn't until recently when I saw a Bill B coached team give away games that were otherwise won.  Cam's fumble against us, their stanford band play this year, maybe the hook and ladder against miami a few years ago.

 and this recently

 

 

[Success]

With the draft coming up, I'm also reminded that Belichick almost always ruined draft weekend for Pats fans by trading down, and quite often.

 

He was really the master at amassing draft picks, either through trades or comp picks.   The more swings you can take, the more hits you'll get.

 

[mjt328]

19 hours ago, iinii said:

Sounds like the early nineties and why the Bickering Bills made four straight appearances. 

 

The AFC East had a Hall of Fame quarterback (Dan Marino) and the coach with the most wins all-time (Don Shula).

 

The rest of the division was bad.  But it wasn't the total walk-over the Pats got for almost two decades.

 

[Freddie's Dead]

They did it the old-fashioned way.  They cheated.

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

On 2/6/2023 at 11:00 AM, Success said:

I thought it might be interesting to put our loathing aside and really analyze how they pulled it off.  What they did is what I want the Bills to do - dominate for many years, and as long as they have Allen at QB.

 

They didn't have the ebb & flow that a team normally has, even w/ a top QB.  Their window was wide open for most of those 17 years. They made 9 SB's, and probably should have made 1-2 more.  My own thoughts:

 

1) Obviously, Brady took less pay so the team could afford better players.  I still don't see that being as impactful as it's made out to be - he was still paid a lot.

2) Aging vet stars took pay cuts just to play w/ Brady. Will we see that w/ Allen?

3) The Patriots made very few investments in bigtime skill players.  Moss was the exception, not the rule.

4) One of the hallmarks of Belichick was letting players walk before they started to decline.  Almost exactly what we're looking at w/ Poyer.

5) Their biggest priority, year after year, was making sure the O-line was strong.  That's just what you do when you have a top QB.

 

Still, the run is somewhat mystifying.  Belichick was not a great drafter, which is usually needed once a QB gets past the rookie contract.  Superior coaching clearly played a part. I think BB got the best out of his players (which is something we aren't doing right now - we see players leave the Bills and perform better than they did here).

 

Thoughts?

 

I think people are forgetting just how good that defense was in Brady's prime years... Ty law, Tebucky Jones, Lawyer Milloy, Teddy Bruschi, Mike Vrabel, Roman Phifer, Richard Seymour, Anthony Pleasant and Bobby Hamilton to go along with a solid OL. You can also throw in that Belichick was a defensive genius also.

Edited February 7, 2023 by BuffaloBillsGospel2014

[LeGOATski]

Has anyone said "cheating" yet?

 

They were cheaters.

[Behindenemylines]

On 2/6/2023 at 11:45 AM, Nextmanup said:

One thing Bills fans like to overlook as well: over the years, NE almost always had a really good defense...

 

The names changed all the time, but the unit remains solid.

 

That's true even now.

 

 

And that sums up good coaching 

 

we don’t have that in Frazier-not even close