If Frazier returns, how much will your enthusism die?

[Rebel101]

12 hours ago, Mister Defense said:

Umm, it will not die, it will be increased--one of the best defensive coordinators in the game now and maybe one of the best all time.

 

Now for Dorsey, having him come back and trash the potential of this offense again, but this time more so I believe, that is extremely discouraging.

 

To me, that was the biggest weakness is the team this year, undermining a great young quarterback and a running game that could still be playing--if used at all correctly.  Like Greg Cosell said, he saw no connection between the Bills running game and the passing game? Not symbiotic at all. How much more damning of a statement can there be?

 

 

I mean honestly bro almost every Bills team I know even the bad ones our defense would atleast keep us in the game until the end. This defense plays soft at the point of attack and soft at the finish. Sometimes coming outta half time, & towards the end it seemed all a team had to do was be more physical and show more toughness. McDermott & Fraziers Bills crumble every time. Dorsey is a loose screw and he has butchered the offense 

[Livinginthepast]

19 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

Beane doesn't report to McDermott. Terry said both men report to him. When it comes to coaching the football team, running practices, game planning then Sean is in charge. When it comes to the roster (draft/FA) then Beane is the man. This is coming Terry P. 

I always thought this was true. But a lot of people on here seem to think otherwise and say things like "McD hired Beane". I'm not sure how that is even possible. I guess the weird situation of Whaley hiring McD and then getting fired and Beane then getting hired spawned this. But there definitely is a buddy vibe between McD and Beane that may have worked for the Bills but also compromises Beanes ability to make certain moves if McD doesnt like them.

[Rebel101]

25 minutes ago, phypon said:

Wake me up when we have a new coaching staff.  The world moves at a much faster pace then it did 15 to 30 years ago.  They've peaked.  Use the roster to get better coaching talent.  NFL = not for long.  Those guys got paid plenty of money, don't feel bad for them.

Agreed. The Eagles won a SB in 2018 & have had a new coach & QB already and look where they’re at. 🤔 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Rebel101

[All_Pro_Bills]

16 minutes ago, FireChans said:

What?

 

He cobbled together the #2 defense in the league, in the best passing era ever, with Christian Benford, Kair Elam, Dane Jackson, Damar Hamlin, Jaquan Johnson, Cam Lewis and the ghost of Tre White all being regulars in the secondary.  Not to mention the scarecrow Edmunds and 1 armed Poyer.

 

You people can't do this.   You can't say all these players suck AND Leslie Frazier sucks. Because guess what?  Almost of the players I listed above ALSO wouldn't have teams jumping at the opportunity to get them. 

 

It's almost like ya'll think we had a bottom 10 defense.

I didn't say they suck but after falling short a few times I believe some upgrades and changes are necessary to get the team in a position to take the big step to win it all.  This requires bold actions. If they do more of the same I just don't see any path to another 13 win season next year or a division title with the Jets and Dolphins barking at their heels.  And in a sport where 1% better is the difference between winning and losing scrutinizing the performance of the DC (and other things) in critical moments is something to consider. 

[Billsfan1972]

I'm still a Bills fan and can only hope.  Seems McD/Frazier are a package deal and pray the offense does enough to cover up their deficiencies.

[GreggTX]

I think we should just fire everyone at OBD and release all the players. Then let the TBD Forum crowd run the franchise. They always come up with brilliant ideas like this one. Championship!

 

[HomeskillitMoorman]

What does it matter if Frazier's gone if McD's still here?

 

Also if people think Frazier's the big problem...whose fault is it that he's still here?

 

I'll give McDermott credit for this...he's somehow managed to make himself infallible in the eyes of so many Bills fans to the points of inexplicable irrationality. 

Edited February 6, 2023 by HomeskillitMoorman

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

What?

 

He cobbled together the #2 defense in the league, in the best passing era ever, with Christian Benford, Kair Elam, Dane Jackson, Damar Hamlin, Jaquan Johnson, Cam Lewis and the ghost of Tre White all being regulars in the secondary.  Not to mention the scarecrow Edmunds and 1 armed Poyer.

 

You people can't do this.   You can't say all these players suck AND Leslie Frazier sucks. Because guess what?  Almost of the players I listed above ALSO wouldn't have teams jumping at the opportunity to get them. 

 

It's almost like ya'll think we had a bottom 10 defense.

 

I think most Bills fans understand exactly what we have on Defense.

 

A good regular season defense that throttles bad to mid QB's, and can slow down elite QB's if we have healthy talent all over the field.

 

When we have faced elite QB's in the playoffs, the defense plays like a bottom 10 unit... 4 years in a row.  It's not a fluke. 

[BhamBillsFan]

18 hours ago, Donuts and Doritos said:

He's coming back & so is Dorsey. Dorsey I think is more of a concern. I'm not enthused, but I'll withhold final Judgement until I see what our final Roster moves look like. Need some upgrades.

 

Dorsey is definitely not more of a concern, cause it's his first year and he's a competitive SOB and will get it figured out! Frazier has been DC for 5 years and won't change anything up, refuses to make adjustments, and doesn't appear to take responsibility for our two big losses in the playoffs, this year and last. I can't even stand to see the look on his face when they pan over to him, cause he looks clueless and has zero intensity. As a DC, you should either have brains (like Lou Anarumo) or be intense, cause the players take on the personality of their coach! The fact that we didn't fire Frazier means that we were okay with our play vs the Bengals (both times this year)!!

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I didn't say they suck but after falling short a few times I believe some upgrades and changes are necessary to get the team in a position to take the big step to win it all.  This requires bold actions. If they do more of the same I just don't see any path to another 13 win season next year or a division title with the Jets and Dolphins barking at their heels.  And in a sport where 1% better is the difference between winning and losing scrutinizing the performance of the DC (and other things) in critical moments is something to consider. 

I agree. We need to upgrade the players. Not the scheme that has turned chicken ***** into chicken salad on the back end.

31 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

I think most Bills fans understand exactly what we have on Defense.

 

A good regular season defense that throttles bad to mid QB's, and can slow down elite QB's if we have healthy talent all over the field.

 

When we have faced elite QB's in the playoffs, the defense plays like a bottom 10 unit... 4 years in a row.  It's not a fluke. 

Yeah, Levi Wallace, Christian Benford, Kaiir Elam, Cam Lewis and Jaquan Johnson ain’t stopping elite QB’s. Agreed.

[Jauronimo]

18 hours ago, Bad Things said:

Yup, I'm with Aussie.

I've followed this team through thick and thin, and will never lose faith in them.

I followed this team through countless rebuilds and dismal football but what finally broke me was a 13-3 season, a 3rd consecutive division title, and a loss in the divisional round.  I'm out!

[Success]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

What?

 

He cobbled together the #2 defense in the league, in the best passing era ever, with Christian Benford, Kair Elam, Dane Jackson, Damar Hamlin, Jaquan Johnson, Cam Lewis and the ghost of Tre White all being regulars in the secondary.  Not to mention the scarecrow Edmunds and 1 armed Poyer.

 

You people can't do this.   You can't say all these players suck AND Leslie Frazier sucks. Because guess what?  Almost of the players I listed above ALSO wouldn't have teams jumping at the opportunity to get them. 

 

It's almost like ya'll think we had a bottom 10 defense.

 

These aren't bad points.  The defense was hit particularly hard this year, and we didn't have peak Tre White back.

 

But I do see our defensive ranking as a mirage. I think it has been assisted greatly the past few years by how good the offense is.  Our offense rarely has 3 & outs, they generally stay on the field, and they also tend to score early & often - forcing opposing offenses to become more one-dimensional.

 

[Process]

Enthusiasm will never die. During the 17 year drought I probably missed watching 2-3 Bills games. 

 

I won't have confidence going into the playoffs with this coaching staff though, until the prove they can get it done. The coaches have failed miserably 3 years in a row now. 

[FireChans]

8 minutes ago, Success said:

 

These aren't bad points.  The defense was hit particularly hard this year, and we didn't have peak Tre White back.

 

But I do see our defensive ranking as a mirage. I think it has been assisted greatly the past few years by how good the offense is.  Our offense rarely has 3 & outs, they generally stay on the field, and they also tend to score early & often - forcing opposing offenses to become more one-dimensional.

 

Sure but that’s what the Pats lived on for decades. The Chiefs get the same benefit. Complimentary football exists and offense generating long drives and points will always help the defense. The defense *not* allowing points and forcing punts will help the offense.

 

Bills offense in 2022 had the fifth best starting field position per drive. That’s a lot to do with the defense. The Bills defense in 2022 had the ninth best starting field position per drive. That has a lot to do with the offense.

[Donuts and Doritos]

44 minutes ago, BhamBillsFan said:

Dorsey is definitely not more of a concern, cause it's his first year and he's a competitive SOB and will get it figured out! Frazier has been DC for 5 years and won't change anything up, refuses to make adjustments, and doesn't appear to take responsibility for our two big losses in the playoffs, this year and last. I can't even stand to see the look on his face when they pan over to him, cause he looks clueless and has zero intensity. As a DC, you should either have brains (like Lou Anarumo) or be intense, cause the players take on the personality of their coach! The fact that we didn't fire Frazier means that we were okay with our play vs the Bengals (both times this year)!!

 

10 pts!!! What D was holding Cincy to under 10 pts? (This ain't baseball). The D kept us in the Miami game the week before (throwing 2 deep posts to Davis back to back when we needed to burn clock was brilliant play calling by Dorsey), the D & 2 kick returns beat the Pats as the O sputtered. The D did alright most of the season, dealing w/ injuries & being put in short field situations thanks to the O turnovers. The D had a bad game against Cincy for sure, & I agree about last year's playoff loss. But I don't get where the confidence comes from that Dorsey will figure it out. He didn't all year, the O struggled from the GB second half on (except for the lowly Bears). He does no picks, no rubs, no quick slants to beat the blitz, schemes no one open, it's chuck it down field over and over. As Greg Cosell said it's vanilla play calling. He expects his receivers to win one on one & relies on Josh to be Superman all the time. It's too difficult, doesn't work & he made no changes to it. Love how he incorporated Hines & Shakir (why did we bother to even get them). His competitiveness & desire is unquestionable (booth tantrum proved that), it's his ability that seems lacking. If he coulda done better he woulda done better, but he can't & 10 pts against good teams is what we'll get next playoffs. I'm not saying I wouldn't move on from Frasier, but Dorsey is not the guy. But hey, we're stuck w/ both of them. So here's to hoping we get some massive upgrades (especially WR2 & O-line), to maybe make up for the play calling deficiencies. We shall see.

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Donuts and Doritos

[The Red King]

3 hours ago, Beast said:

Dis you watch this past season? Was your enthusiasm killed because of Fraizer being the DC?

 

 

 

You mean the soft bend but don't break that barely survived Wild Card weekend and imploded against Cincy?  The D scheme carved in stone even if it's not working?  Backs playing 10 yards off on 3rd/4th and short?  Yeah, I watched all of this season.

[In Summary]

McDermott can talk about growth mindset, but it also needs to apply to defensive coaching be that McDermott, Frazier, or both.  If Leslie simply said,

 

"There will be adjustments in our defensive philosophy.  We need to be more flexible to counter the offense in front of us on any given play.  We recognize that our zone concepts and style of play can be exploited at times - especially if we're being stubborn.  The Cincinnati game was a prime example."

 

That would help my enthusiasm.  

[SoCal Deek]

57 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

I followed this team through countless rebuilds and dismal football but what finally broke me was a 13-3 season, a 3rd consecutive division title, and a loss in the divisional round.  I'm out!

So you’re saying we’ll see you back here on Labor Day? Excellent! 
Go Bills 

[msw2112]

I would prefer to see some fresh ideas and some changes with the defensive coaching and scheme.  All teams suffer injuries.  Great coaching can overcome injuries.  Miami gave Buffalo a tough game in Buffalo during the playoffs with a 3rd string QB.  Cincy dominated the Bills defense in the playoff game with 3 starting offensive linemen out.  Yes, the Bills had signifcant injuries too, but I don't think they adjusted enough to compensate.  Cincy showed them enough in the first 8 minutes of the Monday night game that it was obvious that adjustments were needed.  I didn't see any in the rematch in the playoffs.  I don't dislike Frazier and don't think the Bills will regress to mediocrity if his contract is renewed.  The Bills could very well rebound and go all the way with Frazier at the helm of the defense.  The sky is not falling.  That said, I do believe that some change might do the team - the defense in particular - some good.

[nosejob]

27 minutes ago, The Red King said:

 

You mean the soft bend but don't break that barely survived Wild Card weekend and imploded against Cincy?  The D scheme carved in stone even if it's not working?  Backs playing 10 yards off on 3rd/4th and short?  Yeah, I watched all of this season.

That last game was the final straw for me and should have been the nail in Frazier's coffin....well exit. Everyone knew the forecast. Why wouldn't you play press man and face plant receivers at the line with the sloppy footing allowing your Dline a chance to get some heat on Burrow. They played it against Miami and it worked.

 

So they can do it, they just won't. Also why wouldn't you play more 4-3 and stop the 172 yds. rushing? A.J. Klein( not to mention Milano), is a much better tackler and blitzer than 49 will ever be. They could have rotated LB blitzes and effectively disguised when and where they were coming from. The most important game of the year and it looked as scripted as the WWE.

 

EVERY team deals with injuries and the NFL is an ever revolving league. Sure it may have taken a while this last year for opposing teams to figure out how to attack our defense, but they did. If we roll out this same stupid crap in September, we'll be back discussing draft position by Dec. 1st. Don't forget how many games Josh carried this team to victory.