NFL copies College….College copies High School…So…

[BringBackFergy]

Should we be looking for sharp/unique play callers at the JV/Modified level?

It’s a copy cat league and there’s a lot of really smart guys coaching in my area. Some of the same old “cover 2” BS is stale. Maybe it’s best to look locally or in smaller towns. Get the coaching talent before it sprouts into an SEC position. Just a thought. 

[PatsFanNH]

24 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said:

Should we be looking for sharp/unique play callers at the JV/Modified level?

It’s a copy cat league and there’s a lot of really smart guys coaching in my area. Some of the same old “cover 2” BS is stale. Maybe it’s best to look locally or in smaller towns. Get the coaching talent before it sprouts into an SEC position. Just a thought. 

Umm you coach to the talent you have on your team. BB is always pretty good at this on D (not so much on O) 

 

The NFL copied College because that’s what the talent they had coming up was good at. If suddenly pocket passers are prevalent they will switch again.. 

[BringBackFergy]

15 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Umm you coach to the talent you have on your team. BB is always pretty good at this on D (not so much on O) 

 

The NFL copied College because that’s what the talent they had coming up was good at. If suddenly pocket passers are prevalent they will switch again.. 

There’s a lot of really fast kids playing LB in my area. Same at the RB position. I’ve seen a four man wishbone at the Modified level. Imagine an RPO with four options in the NFL?  Dayum. As I said, NFL garners ideas from college. Why not go to the foundational root of good ideas at the local level? My buddy coaches in the next town over and we chat about ways to isolate the bigger kids vs. less talented kids. We run film and take notes. This isn’t rocket science. Just need some new ideas. 

[costrovs]

Some of the smaller schools have players playing offense and defense.

 

JA - QB/LB

Diggs - WR/S/CB

Milano - LB/RB

Hyde - S/WR

Rousseau - DE/RB?

Miller - LB/RB?

 

We might be able to fix our RB issues with players we already have. 

 

[PatsFanNH]

27 minutes ago, costrovs said:

Some of the smaller schools have players playing offense and defense.

 

JA - QB/LB

Diggs - WR/S/CB

Milano - LB/RB

Hyde - S/WR

Rousseau - DE/RB?

Miller - LB/RB?

 

We might be able to fix our RB issues with players we already have. 

 

All HS have players playing 2 way ball. That’s because they want them to develop more. For example my son BEFORE HS was RT and DE now he is RT/RG (all O line except center) and LB (he has 6 years experience as a freshman used that made him a Captain on the freshman team.) So until college all kids play two sides of the ball then if your lucky a school gives you a scholarship for one side.

56 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said:

There’s a lot of really fast kids playing LB in my area. Same at the RB position. I’ve seen a four man wishbone at the Modified level. Imagine an RPO with four options in the NFL?  Dayum. As I said, NFL garners ideas from college. Why not go to the foundational root of good ideas at the local level? My buddy coaches in the next town over and we chat about ways to isolate the bigger kids vs. less talented kids. We run film and take notes. This isn’t rocket science. Just need some new ideas. 

Umm ok. You do know the skill level in the NFL is like crazy high compared to any other level right?  All coaches if they are good watch film and try to attack the other teams weaker players. Like having Diggs line up in the slot to face the teams 3rd best CB.. or having your RB run a route against a much slower LB.. etc.. 

 

Also vastly different coaching Kids and full grown men. 

[BringBackFergy]

15 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

All HS have players playing 2 way ball. That’s because they want them to develop more. For example my son BEFORE HS was RT and DE now he is RT/RG (all O line except center) and LB (he has 6 years experience as a freshman used that made him a Captain on the freshman team.) So until college all kids play two sides of the ball then if your lucky a school gives you a scholarship for one side.

Umm ok. You do know the skill level in the NFL is like crazy high compared to any other level right?  All coaches if they are good watch film and try to attack the other teams weaker players. Like having Diggs line up in the slot to face the teams 3rd best CB.. or having your RB run a route against a much slower LB.. etc.. 

 

Also vastly different coaching Kids and full grown men. 

With all due respect to your son (he may be intelligent and agile), my buddy (Phil) took 17 boys age 15-18 from all walks of life and made them into a rough bunch who went 8-4 JV. The point being, creative use of resources and new game planning will trickle “up” to the College and, ultimately, NFL level if we leave this resource untapped. (Geoff Saturday, for example). Why not take a look at non-traditional coaches to light a spark? I mean, Phil works with people every day…he can interact with professional players. 

[Buffalo716]

12 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

All HS have players playing 2 way ball. That’s because they want them to develop more. For example my son BEFORE HS was RT and DE now he is RT/RG (all O line except center) and LB (he has 6 years experience as a freshman used that made him a Captain on the freshman team.) So until college all kids play two sides of the ball then if your lucky a school gives you a scholarship for one side.

Umm ok. You do know the skill level in the NFL is like crazy high compared to any other level right?  All coaches if they are good watch film and try to attack the other teams weaker players. Like having Diggs line up in the slot to face the teams 3rd best CB.. or having your RB run a route against a much slower LB.. etc.. 

 

Also vastly different coaching Kids and full grown men. 

All (big) high schools actually do not have kids starting both ways… That’s typically reserve for smaller class schools

 

New York which isn’t even a big hotbed for high school football recruits… If you go to Saint Joe’s lots aren’t starting both ways

 

They are trying to get kids to the next level and you are picking one side of the ball to specialize… No both side athletes unless you have 35 kids on the team

 

Go to 5Aball in Texas… Very few start both ways… 6a Georgia … Very few both side both side athletes start

Edited February 5, 2023 by Buffalo716

[PatsFanNH]

3 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said:

With all due respect to your son (he may be intelligent and agile), my buddy (Phil) took 17 boys age 15-18 from all walks of life and made them into a rough bunch who went 8-4 JV. The point being, creative use of resources and new game planning will trickle “up” to the College and, ultimately, NFL level if we leave this resource untapped. (Geoff Saturday, for example). Why not take a look at non-traditional coaches to light a spark? I mean, Phil works with people every day…he can interact with professional players. 

 they went 8-4 on JV! (Face palm)again with all do respect.. ITS HIGH SCHOOL!!! FYI my son as a freshman played on both freshman and JV.. Their JV team had just 1 loss till the playoffs.. does that mean they have some Magic elixir for the NFL? NO it means they played better as a team and get this.. we’re more talented than the other teams in HIGH SCHOOL! don’t you get it scheming things when you have clear difference in talent is not the same as when the other teams have roughly the same talent level!  No new ideas come from HS they come from college where they are truly invented.. 99% of all HS not located in Texas are a run first offense with a very limited route tree. Why? Because they are kids whose first priority is school and they don’t have time to learn a ton of different plays.. in college they do. 

[PatsFanNH]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

All high schools actually do not have kids playing both ways… That’s typically reserve for smaller class schools

 

New York which isn’t even a big hotbed for high school football recruits… If you go to Saint Joe’s or Canisius… You’re not playing both ways

 

They are trying to get kids to the next level and you are picking one side of the ball… No both side athletes

 

Go to 5Aball in Texas… Very few play both ways

Texas is the exception for football. Up here in the NE all HS have them play both ways. (At least in Ma/NH/ME) My son plays Division 1 so nothing higher HERE.. and they do get kids move up into Division 1 schools as well.. (I know a few got scholarships to schools like ND, BC and Virginia this year.. and like 4 other schools I don’t remember and a bunch division 2..)

 

but also that wasn’t really my point the point is HS is nothing like College.. and College is nothing like the Pros.. all big jumps..

[Buffalo716]

12 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

Texas is the exception for football. Up here in the NE all HS have them play both ways. (At least in Ma/NH/ME) My son plays Division 1 so nothing higher HERE.. and they do get kids move up into Division 1 schools as well.. (I know a few got scholarships to schools like ND, BC and Virginia this year.. and like 4 other schools I don’t remember and a bunch division 2..)

 

but also that wasn’t really my point the point is HS is nothing like College.. and College is nothing like the Pros.. all big jumps..

I think New Hampshire had 3 kids get a division 1 FBS scholarship in 2021… maybe 5… only 1 nationally ranked with 2* or 3*

 

Now I’m not saying they don’t play good football up there… Because it’s America… Tons of division two and three players

 

But New England is even behind New York… And if you’re playing Catholic school Monsignor martin football in WNY (highest class) And you have a 50-60 man roster, they will have 1 way starters … But yeah even A ball players in New York play both sides

 

most of the true football belts ( TX, Georgia , Florida , California, Ohio , Mississippi etc… it’s 1 way at varsity… Unless you are a top class athlete

 

And I agree the jumps from each level are huge… Ask Derek henry how big the jump from the SEC to the NFL was lol

 

HUGE

 

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Buffalo716

[Mark Vader]

"God creates dinosaurs...God destroys dinosaurs...God creates man...Man destroys God...Man creates dinosaurs."

 

Sorry, the thread title made me think of this.

[BringBackFergy]

7 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

 they went 8-4 on JV! (Face palm)again with all do respect.. ITS HIGH SCHOOL!!! FYI my son as a freshman played on both freshman and JV.. Their JV team had just 1 loss till the playoffs.. does that mean they have some Magic elixir for the NFL? NO it means they played better as a team and get this.. we’re more talented than the other teams in HIGH SCHOOL! don’t you get it scheming things when you have clear difference in talent is not the same as when the other teams have roughly the same talent level!  No new ideas come from HS they come from college where they are truly invented.. 99% of all HS not located in Texas are a run first offense with a very limited route tree. Why? Because they are kids whose first priority is school and they don’t have time to learn a ton of different plays.. in college they do. 

Yeah. 8-4!! That’s a winning record. And guess what? When the Varsity coach gets fired in a few years, Phil will move up to that position. And then with 2-3 years of success, he may coach JuCo, etc. The fact remains, creative play calling and design starts at the lowest levels of football and trickles up! I bet your son is a great player…would he rather learn more creative plays from Leslie Frasier or Phil?

[vincec]

6 hours ago, Mark Vader said:

"God creates dinosaurs...God destroys dinosaurs...God creates man...Man destroys God...Man creates dinosaurs."

 

Sorry, the thread title made me think of this.

“Dinosaurs eat man. Women inherit the Earth.”

[PatsFanNH]

1 hour ago, BringBackFergy said:

Yeah. 8-4!! That’s a winning record. And guess what? When the Varsity coach gets fired in a few years, Phil will move up to that position. And then with 2-3 years of success, he may coach JuCo, etc. The fact remains, creative play calling and design starts at the lowest levels of football and trickles up! I bet your son is a great player…would he rather learn more creative plays from Leslie Frasier or Phil?

I rather he have fun, it’s HIGH SCHOOL!  As for teaching him I couldn’t ask for better coaches. They had him watching film for the freshman team and told him to focus on the O line of the opponent. Then they would talk and discuss where they saw weaknesses.  It actually helped make him a better student. 

[mead107]

11 hours ago, BringBackFergy said:

Should we be looking for sharp/unique play callers at the JV/Modified level?

It’s a copy cat league and there’s a lot of really smart guys coaching in my area. Some of the same old “cover 2” BS is stale. Maybe it’s best to look locally or in smaller towns. Get the coaching talent before it sprouts into an SEC position. Just a thought. 

Step up your game and become a coach. 
you could make a lot of money as coach of the Chiefs. 
 

[PatsFanNH]

9 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

I think New Hampshire had 3 kids get a division 1 FBS scholarship in 2021… maybe 5… only 1 nationally ranked with 2* or 3*

 

Now I’m not saying they don’t play good football up there… Because it’s America… Tons of division two and three players

 

But New England is even behind New York… And if you’re playing Catholic school Monsignor martin football in WNY (highest class) You’re only playing one side typically … But yeah even A ball players in New York play both sides

 

most of the true football belts ( TX, Georgia , Florida , California, Ohio , Mississippi etc… it’s 1 way at varsity… Unless you are a top class athlete

 

And I agree the jumps from each level are huge… Ask Derek henry how big the jump from the SEC to the NFL was lol

 

HUGE

 

 

I only know the Merrimack Valley well in the area. (NE Mass) I know 2 varsity kids got full scholarships division 1 and I think a 3rd did as well.. but I wasn’t really caring since my sons only a freshman and I just want him having fun learning and having a great HS experience.. if we are honest the chances of a scholarship are small for everyone and making the pros even smaller.. so have fun and make life long friends..  my point to the original poster is HS don’t originate anything most are just running a little more advanced pop Warner play book.  (The South is the exception as they are fanatical about football)

[Buffalo716]

13 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

I only know the Merrimack Valley well in the area. (NE Mass) I know 2 varsity kids got full scholarships division 1 and I think a 3rd did as well.. but I wasn’t really caring since my sons only a freshman and I just want him having fun learning and having a great HS experience.. if we are honest the chances of a scholarship are small for everyone and making the pros even smaller.. so have fun and make life long friends..  my point to the original poster is HS don’t originate anything most are just running a little more advanced pop Warner play book.  (The South is the exception as they are fanatical about football)

Yea the south is king… especially the Deep South 

 

Georgia is making a really big push to become the #1 HS state for football … Its Uber impressive football 

 

than you got TX, obviously… Florida , California , Louisiana 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Buffalo716

[NoSaint]

9 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

 they went 8-4 on JV! (Face palm)again with all do respect.. ITS HIGH SCHOOL!!! FYI my son as a freshman played on both freshman and JV.. Their JV team had just 1 loss till the playoffs.. does that mean they have some Magic elixir for the NFL? NO it means they played better as a team and get this.. we’re more talented than the other teams in HIGH SCHOOL! don’t you get it scheming things when you have clear difference in talent is not the same as when the other teams have roughly the same talent level!  No new ideas come from HS they come from college where they are truly invented.. 99% of all HS not located in Texas are a run first offense with a very limited route tree. Why? Because they are kids whose first priority is school and they don’t have time to learn a ton of different plays.. in college they do. 

wait, so we could add a running game to our limited route tree?!?

 

im starting to think ferg has something here between that Geoff Saturday and Phil and your post here…. I’m intrigued. 

[Nextmanup]

11 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

All high schools actually do not have kids playing both ways… That’s typically reserve for smaller class schools

 

New York which isn’t even a big hotbed for high school football recruits… If you go to Saint Joe’s or Canisius… You’re not playing both ways

 

They are trying to get kids to the next level and you are picking one side of the ball… No both side athletes

 

Go to 5Aball in Texas… Very few play both ways… 6a Georgia … Very few both side both side athletes

I graduated from St. Joe's in 1989.  A friend and classmate of mine--Vaughan Parker--graduated in my class. Went to UCLA and became a starting OG for the Chargers for a number of years.

 

He played both ways at St. Joe's.

 

They tried to use him every way they could, b/c he was 6'4" and 275 pounds when he was 16 and fast and athletic.

 

In high school it's easy to get huge mismatches on the field that would never exist at higher levels, though I have to laugh at some of the mismatches you can get on a football field even in top flight college games.

 

I will always remember the Notre Dame vs. Alabama national championship game.  Alabama was bigger/stronger/faster at every position...and that was supposed to be the No. 1 and No. 2 teams playing.

 

 

[Buffalo716]

57 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

I graduated from St. Joe's in 1989.  A friend and classmate of mine--Vaughan Parker--graduated in my class. Went to UCLA and became a starting OG for the Chargers for a number of years.

 

He played both ways at St. Joe's.

 

They tried to use him every way they could, b/c he was 6'4" and 275 pounds when he was 16 and fast and athletic.

 

In high school it's easy to get huge mismatches on the field that would never exist at higher levels, though I have to laugh at some of the mismatches you can get on a football field even in top flight college games.

 

I will always remember the Notre Dame vs. Alabama national championship game.  Alabama was bigger/stronger/faster at every position...and that was supposed to be the No. 1 and No. 2 teams playing.

 

 

Yea that was 25 years ago … I think starting 2 ways was way more normal even in bigger schools

 

It really is starting to get slowly more specialized… especially in huge football classes
 

I’ve seen a lot more kids starting one way in the last five years than 20 years ago even in WNY large schools 

 

sure Lots of kids have to play both sides because they don’t have enough kids or talent … If you got a 65 man roster with talent you don’t have to start both ways

 

If you have 35-40 kids on the team… Chances are you are gonna have kids start both ways

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Buffalo716