Kurt Warner's "Study Ball" review of Bengals game.

[Maine-iac]

Lots of interesting stuff here.  I don't always agree with everything that comes from Warner but this looks pretty straight forward.  The ball needed to come out quicker and the short passing game needs much better execution.  Looked like a lot of plays were there.  I don't think the Bengal's defense was too much we just didn't execute well. That's just my take.  

 

 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Maine-iac said:

Lots of interesting stuff here.  I don't always agree with everything that comes from Warner but this looks pretty straight forward.  The ball needed to come out quicker and the short passing game needs much better execution.  Looked like a lot of plays were there.  I don't think the Bengal's defense was too much we just didn't execute well. That's just my take.  

 

 

 

Some of us have been saying this for two weeks. It's popular to pile on coaching. But it's a PLAYERS game. That will never change. The coaching wasn't faultless, far from it. But guys on both sides just have to play better.

 

EDIT: and Josh is better when the ball comes out fast.

Edited February 4, 2023 by GunnerBill

[78thealltimegreat]

Kurt’s analysis is basically Josh Allen lost this game by himself and no one else  is to blame. 

Edited February 4, 2023 by 78thealltimegreat

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Given the weather too, this was the obvious gameplan. Look at what the bengals did— just very simple quick stuff and then guys made defenders miss with a move in the snow. 

 

I don’t get it, because the first few games of the year, we were all over the quick stuff. And then we added a Hines who is perfect for it also. 

[Goin Breakdown]

3 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Given the weather too, this was the obvious gameplan. Look at what the bengals did— just very simple quick stuff and then guys made defenders miss with a move in the snow. 

 

I don’t get it, because the first few games of the year, we were all over the quick stuff. And then we added a Hines who is perfect for it also. 

Your second paragraph is exactly right IMO. I don't understand why they went away from it. Was it all joshs elbow? Some say he got concussed?  Game plan?

[LABILLBACKER]

Dorsey had few hot reads or crossing routes all season. And yes Josh has to be coached up to value the checkdown as much as the fly route.  When your weapons are few and teams double Diggs, you revert to hero ball.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

4 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Given the weather too, this was the obvious gameplan. Look at what the bengals did— just very simple quick stuff and then guys made defenders miss with a move in the snow. 

 

I don’t get it, because the first few games of the year, we were all over the quick stuff. And then we added a Hines who is perfect for it also. 

 

 I don't get it either. I've said this the last couple days now, he was quick and decisive in the playoffs last year and in the first few games this year, then in games 4-6 it all slowly went away. I don't know if all the injuries early on made him feel he had to do more or what, but there was a clear difference in play between Josh weeks 1-3 and late season/playoff Josh this year. 

 

 He was so quick getting the ball out in week 1 that Chris Collinsworth compared his play that night to Brady, saying something like If I didn't know any better I swear we're watching Brady tonight. He mentioned just how fast the ball was coming out on several occasions. Part of Dorsey's job is keeping Allen on schedule, he needs to do alot better next year. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

The bengals could have scored every time they touched the ball. God forbid our offense has an off day and doesn’t bail them out. Literally every week the offense wins us games, 1 time they don’t have it and that’s a big deal. How about once in a while have the defense making stops. You might have to win a game 13-10. You just never can because our defense absolutely blows. Let’s spend the offseason complaining about WRs and Dorsey though….keep not fixing the actual problem and wonder why we are watching the Super Bowl with the fans.

[Rigotz]

55 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Some of us have been saying this for two weeks. It's popular to pile on coaching. But it's a PLAYERS game. That will never change. The coaching wasn't faultless, far from it. But guys on both sides just have to play better.

You watched the video and that was your takeaway?

 

Personally, I thought this showed horrific play design time and again. Look at 16:30. You have 3 WRs on one side of the field running verts into a 2 high safety look. Zero short or intermediate route… just “go sling it into double coverage, Josh!” … and no short or intermediate answer for the corner blitz.

 

That is NOT a player issue. That is a play design issue.

[Maine-iac]

One of the things I liked is that while he did point out throws that were there Warner also talked about play design.  Getting the guy out to the flat so that you can get the ball out hot and catch the defense instead of chipping and giving them time to get coverage there.  It just seemed like our answer was always block and then strike instead of a quick strike that never allowed them to get there.  

6 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

The bengals could have scored every time they touched the ball. God forbid our offense has an off day and doesn’t bail them out. Literally every week the offense wins us games, 1 time they don’t have it and that’s a big deal. How about once in a while have the defense making stops. You might have to win a game 13-10. You just never can because our defense absolutely blows. Let’s spend the offseason complaining about WRs and Dorsey though….keep not fixing the actual problem and wonder why we are watching the Super Bowl with the fans.

You're right.  The defense didn't have it but this thread was never about the defense or who lost the game.  Just watching a film break down.  I'm sure there are 100 threads about the defense.  Choose one and let it out.  

Edited February 4, 2023 by Maine-iac

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

You watched the video and that was your takeaway?

 

Personally, I thought this showed horrific play design time and again. Look at 16:30. You have 3 WRs on one side of the field running verts into a 2 high safety look. Zero short or intermediate route… just “go sling it into double coverage, Josh!” … and no short or intermediate answer for the corner blitz.

 

That is NOT a player issue. That is a play design issue.

 

Play design is not perfect. No question there are issues. But you can't watch that video and avoid the conclusion there were plays there to be made that the Bills didn't make. 

[Dubie54]

42 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Given the weather too, this was the obvious gameplan. Look at what the bengals did— just very simple quick stuff and then guys made defenders miss with a move in the snow. 

 

I don’t get it, because the first few games of the year, we were all over the quick stuff. And then we added a Hines who is perfect for it also. 

Exactly - not using Hines more effectively was an enormous blind spot for Dorsey and should have resulted in his being fired. Our offense could have been so much more dynamic and much harder to defend if we had utilized play action, screens, short dumps, to counter the deep ball and our running game.

[GoBills808]

30 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 I don't get it either. I've said this the last couple days now, he was quick and decisive in the playoffs last year and in the first few games this year, then in games 4-6 it all slowly went away. I don't know if all the injuries early on made him feel he had to do more or what, but there was a clear difference in play between Josh weeks 1-3 and late season/playoff Josh this year. 

 

 He was so quick getting the ball out in week 1 that Chris Collinsworth compared his play that night to Brady, saying something like If I didn't know any better I swear we're watching Brady tonight. He mentioned just how fast the ball was coming out on several occasions. Part of Dorsey's job is keeping Allen on schedule, he needs to do alot better next year. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The idea that he was throwing the ball quickly and short in the playoffs last year is revisionist

 

He was holding the ball, getting through reads and looking deep when he was most effective, both against NE and the Chiefs. 

[BBills_88]

After watching, Dorsey needs to have answer for every play. 

 

Dorsey wants to be aggressive, but he has no exact plan.

 

Hopefully Josh learned from this tape. 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

24 minutes ago, Maine-iac said:

One of the things I liked is that while he did point out throws that were there Warner also talked about play design.  Getting the guy out to the flat so that you can get the ball out hot and catch the defense instead of chipping and giving them time to get coverage there.  It just seemed like our answer was always block and then strike instead of a quick strike that never allowed them to get there.  

You're right.  The defense didn't have it but this thread was never about the defense or who lost the game.  Just watching a film break down.  I'm sure there are 100 threads about the defense.  Choose one and let it out.  

It feels like somehow from the minute the game ended all everyone wants to talk about is lack of weapons and the offense. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills here. This team casually scores 30 every week like it’s nothing but we get run over constantly. I know this was about something else I guess I just wanted to have people relax over the Josh stuff. He’s probably trying to do too much because he knew he needed 7 on every drive.

[Maine-iac]

1 minute ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

It feels like somehow from the minute the game ended all everyone wants to talk about is lack of weapons and the offense. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills here. This team casually scores 30 every week like it’s nothing but we get run over constantly. I know this was about something else I guess I just wanted to have people relax over the Josh stuff. He’s probably trying to do too much because he knew he needed 7 on every drive.

Josh is fine.  He's still a man among men.  Even Warner complimented Josh several times on making something happen.  Hindsight is always 20/20 so after a game is over and you are looking at tape it's always easier to say what you could have/should have done.  Dorsey and Josh are good but I'm sure they'll learn from this. 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

1 minute ago, BBills_88 said:

After watching, Dorsey needs to have answer for every play. 

 

Dorsey wants to be aggressive, but he has no exact plan.

 

Hopefully Josh learned from this tape. 

 

 He threw quickly a bunch of times in the NE playoff game and mixed in some longer passes. 4 of his 5 tds were less than 20 yds and 3 of those 4 were  quick throws. Have no idea what you're referring to there. Just rewatched the game yesterday.

 

 Started the game against KC the same way. As the game progressed and they saw a clear weakness with honey badger leaving the game. Once they identified that they started taking deeper shots to Gabe.

 

 And yes when you hit on almost all your deep shots over a 2 game stretch, with most going for tds, it's going to be the most effective part of your game. He was lethal with the deep ball in the playoffs last year.

 

 

 

 

 

[Mango]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Some of us have been saying this for two weeks. It's popular to pile on coaching. But it's a PLAYERS game. That will never change. The coaching wasn't faultless, far from it. But guys on both sides just have to play better.

 

EDIT: and Josh is better when the ball comes out fast.

I haven’t had the time to go through Warners breakdown. 
 

At scale, I totally agree with you. 2 weeks is conservative for how long some have been pounding the table. 
 

But from what I watched on A22 this year the Bengals game was one of Allens less egregious games this season. The Divisional was a full system failure from FO to OC, OL, QB, and WR. 

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, Goin Breakdown said:

Your second paragraph is exactly right IMO. I don't understand why they went away from it. Was it all joshs elbow? Some say he got concussed?  Game plan?

Why we abandoned the easy checkdowns which also act as your running game will be the great mystery of 2022?

[CoudyBills]

2 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

It feels like somehow from the minute the game ended all everyone wants to talk about is lack of weapons and the offense. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills here. This team casually scores 30 every week like it’s nothing but we get run over constantly. I know this was about something else I guess I just wanted to have people relax over the Josh stuff. He’s probably trying to do too much because he knew he needed 7 on every drive.

How many more first round picks should they burn on a defense in today's NFL?  The NFL is a race to 40 every week.  Whoever gets the closest wins.