Your Gut Instinct: Are Beane/McDermott On Track to Win Championship(s) or Wasting J. Allen's talent?

[BillsFan692]

Hindsight is 20/20 we can all say at start of the season we know we had all these problems but at the same time none of us knew that and the coaches didn't either. Football evolves every year and if you're standing still you're losing. I think we stood still a little bit from last year to this year and other teams 'caught up' and even surpassed. Bills are now on notice and need to evolve. If they can't do that we're def screwed, but I guess we'll see !=P

[NastyNateSoldiers]

14 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Not a complete excuse, but

1. coming to a new team mid-season meant that he had to learn a whole new offense and develop relationships with his new teammates

2. He was also playing Special Teams which drew some of his attention away from learning the new offense

3. The OL was really struggling so RBs needed to be held in to block more often than usual 

4. Singletary and Cook were both playing well ahead of him

 

Do you really think that they purposely drafted Cook and traded for Hines, both pass catching backs, and then forgot about using them?  I think more likely, circumstances like the above made incorporating the backs into the passing game difficult.

 

Specifically regarding Hines, imagine starting a new job at a different company.  Do you think you will understand everything and perform all roles immediately?

Not to mention this team doesn’t have a screen pass in the playbook. 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

7 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said:

I’ve seen enough talent from Josh to know he has the same abilities as Mahomes and Burrow. So that got me thinking why such a disparity. Then I do a roster to roster to roster comparison and begin to realize that the difference is coaching and talent. It’s not a Josh Allen problem. We are only winning because of him. You put him on a team like SF or Philly and you are talking about a multi year dynasty. 

Put him on the Jets and there Super Bowl bound! 

[Figster]

The NFL playoff rules were changed because  Josh Allen and the Buffalo Bills should not have lost last post season on a coin toss. Regardless of the 13 seconds of shame. We all know what happened this season towards the end of the season. The game of football stopped being fun for the players. I realize life has to go on and this is the life a professional athlete chose. The Bills never stopped doing their jobs. Practicing and game planning. Preparing fot the next opponent. To win in the NFL especially in the playoffs it requires more then just going through the motions. It requires heart, determination and focus. The Buffalo Bills simply didn't have it. Myself personally, I don't blame them.  I also don't think how Buffalo played was a good representation of what they are truly capable of on a football field IMO. The Bills all needed a break from football. They needed it before the playoffs even began IMO.

 

Voted the McBeane regime is on the right track...

 

  

[Matt_In_NH]

13 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

He literally played better than any QB in NFL history in the playoffs last year and they still couldn't get out of the divisional round

He played unreal in the 2021 playoffs.  However considering the total body of work, is there any room for improvement?

[Dr. Who]

1 hour ago, Figster said:

The NFL playoff rules were changed because  Josh Allen and the Buffalo Bills should not have lost last post season on a coin toss. Regardless of the 13 seconds of shame. We all know what happened this season towards the end of the season. The game of football stopped being fun for the players. I realize life has to go on and this is the life a professional athlete chose. The Bills never stopped doing their jobs. Practicing and game planning. Preparing fot the next opponent. To win in the NFL especially in the playoffs it requires more then just going through the motions. It requires heart, determination and focus. The Buffalo Bills simply didn't have it. Myself personally, I don't blame them.  I also don't think how Buffalo played was a good representation of what they are truly capable of on a football field IMO. The Bills all needed a break from football. They needed it before the playoffs even began IMO.

 

Voted the McBeane regime is on the right track...

 

  

I think this is a plausible take. I am more skeptical, but I hope this is correct. Either way, next year is going to determine a lot about just where the franchise really is. For sure, Beane had better improve the oline or no coach is going to get it right.

[ProcessTruster]

With the addition of Von Miller, DaQuan Jones and the return of Jordan Phillips and Shaq Lawson , Beane finally had the defensive roster ready to win, .   But Tre wasn't ready to go, Hyde, Miller, Jones and Phillips couldn't stay on the field for the tournament, so that was that for 2022.   You can't be down 5 key starters and expect to beat the best.

 

Fans on this board downplay the impact of key starter injuries too much.   A teams health going into the tournament is probably the #1 variable.  

 

So, our defense was gutted for the playoffs, they lost a game and this board throws in the towel?  

 

 

[Billsfan1972]

9 hours ago, Chaos said:

Burrows steps up and stands in a pocket and delivers pinpont passes just prior to be crushed by the defense better than any QB I have ever seen.  This is the reason he has the Joe Cool moniker. 

Because his receivers are open, make tough and contested catches.

[OldTimer1960]

10 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said:

I’ve been a fan for a long time, not as long as some of you but old enough to have seen a lot. Super bowl years were soul crushing, but the last few years are starting to do me in. At least during the decades of suck, there was hope we could attain super bowl glory years. Now we have an elite QB, more elite than Kelly, and we are still struggling to bring one home. I’m willing to be a fan as long as Josh Allen is our QB and will likely continue being a fan of Allen brings home a super bowl victory, but if he can’t by the time he retires, I’m likely done being a Bills fan. It’s just not worth it at that point. I’ve never lurked in the shadows before, even during the bad years, but year after year after year of fail even with elite talent is depressing. 

It used to be that there were only a few outstanding QBs, but today there are many more.  The Bills are in a group of teams that have great QBs, any one of which could win the SB.  While we all watched Brady dominate thinking if only we could get a great QB, we would win, it turns out just having a great QB isn’t enough.

[Buckets]

22 hours ago, Beast said:

They should have won the SB last season with pretty much the same roster. However, they need to improve on the o-line and another dynamic target at WR for me to feel they are a legit contender to win it.

I agree we should have won last year but why didn't we, 13 seconds.

[SoCal Deek]

Some posters on here act like this is all random, like a dice game. It’s not. The Bills coaching staff has now 100% proven they can get a team to the playoffs. After the first year or two at that level and you’ve acquired a tremendous amount of experience. Home playoff games…check. Road playoff games…check. Good weather, bad weather, repeat opponents, new opponents, divisional opponents ….check, check, check. With that kind of resume and experience it’s NOT good luck, or bad luck when your team isn’t prepared to play like they weren’t against the Bengals. It’s just a flat out failure to be so unprepared, come out flat, and then do absolutely nothing about it after halftime! Period. 

[Stuartjohn]

22 hours ago, elijah said:

Check the board for the first time since the Bengals game.. And you’re telling me that so far 70% of people (19-8 in the poll currently) think there’s a better chance that we don’t win a championship under McBeane and Allen? 

 

It was a rough playoff loss and embarrassing coaching, true. 

 

McDermott is still a top 8 coach in the league, true. 

 

Allen is still a top 3 quarterback in the league, true. 

 

McDermott & Allen are still a top 5 QB/Coach combo in the league, true. 

 

The first statement can be true at the same time as the next three. It’s unfortunate the way we lost, and it was outright embarrassing for the organization and the city & fans that invest their lives into this team for 5-6 months of the year, and others that do year round. But the amount of criticism I’ve seen surrounding Allen/McBeane since this loss is borderline unfathomable. Confidence and faith should still be very high that these guys bring us atleast 1 Lombardi, if not more.

 

I was having the same meltdown the day after the game, and maybe even a couple after that. But come on, it’s 2 weeks later. Level yourselves. The Bills are still in a very elite class of the NFL and have turned into a model organization. It’ll come. 

 

And on that note, I guess I’ll have to keep TBD out of my search bar a little longer if this is still the direction conversations are trending 😭 

Bills are NOT  in the Top 5 anymore!  With Frazier as DC and McDermott as Coach- we’ll Never WIN A LOMBARDI!!

[Dopey]

22 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Bills fans are not an accurate group of people to ask about coaching changes.

Why?  Because we have been a lousy franchise for most of our existence, and most of our coaching regimes have been TERRIBLE.  This makes Bills fans think that getting a hold of a good coach is nearly impossible, and that we really lucked out when McDermott and Beane came along.  

 

Further, these fans reason, it'll probably never happen again!  How many coaches have we seen of McDermott's caliber in the history of the team?  This is not the right way to think.

 

Meanwhile, outside the Bills fandom bubble, other franchises remain consistently at the top and make coaching changes as needed.   

 

The Eagles are about to win their SECOND SB in a handful of years, with a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT REGIME that won back in 2018!  Different QB too! Different everything! 

 

Look at the Bengals!  Lots of successes--to a degree--for FIFTEEN YEARS with Marvin Lewis..but never got the job done.

 

They finally cave in, bring in a new administration, move on from Dalton, and look at what the team has become NOW....

 

Sometimes you have to take a step back to take 2 or 3 forward.

 

 

 

 

How in the world would you arrive at that conclusion?  As a game manager, he's middling at best.

 

Are you suggesting his ability to run a great prayer group?  Or give a nice speech before practices? 

 

It was recently suggested that Denver's hire of Sean Payton is worth 1 win in the regular season, simply by having him as their head coach.  

 

I'd suggest McDermott is worth 1 loss, simply by having him run the team on the sidelines during games for an entire season.

 

 

We’re a “top” team and have been the past few seasons. Is this our 3rd consecutive AFCE title? We’re going to be a “top” team next year.

Why the comparison to Lewis!?! Why not compare McDermott to Andy Reid?

[gonzo1105]

I think we’re honestly in a case of wrong time to have a franchise QB. I mean the AFC is absolutely loaded at QB including Allen while the NFC literally just has Hurts as their young breakthrough QB. 
 

Im not saying we won’t breakthrough ever but if we were in the NFC I think we would win 1 or 2 for sure. Can’t say that for sure in the AFC 

[Chaos]

11 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

My gut instinct is McDermott/Beane will follow the career paths of Tomlin/Colbert, Harbaugh/Newsome, and Carroll/Schneider.  They'll have their team in the playoffs nearly every season and eventually they'll cash in at least one of those lottery tickets.  

Tomlin, Harbaugh and Carroll all did this early in their tenures. They have been resting on those laurels a long time. 

1 hour ago, Matt_In_NH said:

He played unreal in the 2021 playoffs.  However considering the total body of work, is there any room for improvement?

Think of this question in terms of production.  Here is an analogy. In 2022 Aarron Judge his 62 home runs.   Is there room for improvement for Judge.  Certainly.  Maybe he can hit 67 home runs.   But people would think Aaron Boone was goofy as hell to suggest part of the Yankees 2023 strategy was to get more production out of Aaron Judge. 

[PBF81]

On 2/4/2023 at 9:35 AM, Chaos said:

One group thinks the Bills should stay the course and keeping doing the same things and that through some experience/maturation process the Bills will get better results. 

 

The second group thinks the coaching staff has peaked and won't be able to do further in the playoffs than it has.   

 

What is it that they say about doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results ... 

 

A. How long for that maturation?  McD's had 6 seasons now.  

 

B.  Beane can't hit home-runs or triples on days 1 & 2 of the Drafts to save his life.  

 

C.  Like clockwork, in the playoffs our Defense goes on vacation.  

 

D.  In the playoffs and in many regular season games we have to overcome our own coaching blunders and incompetencies to win often.  

 

I'm just curious how many more tries, seasons, will correct what even fans know is obvious.  

Edited February 5, 2023 by PBF81

[Matt_In_NH]

27 minutes ago, Chaos said:

 

Think of this question in terms of production.  Here is an analogy. In 2022 Aarron Judge his 62 home runs.   Is there room for improvement for Judge.  Certainly.  Maybe he can hit 67 home runs.   But people would think Aaron Boone was goofy as hell to suggest part of the Yankees 2023 strategy was to get more production out of Aaron Judge. 

 

I don’t think this is a fair analogy.  Home runs is one small simple thing.   Playing qb is completely different, the qb is more than anything the position most responsible for team success in any sport.   Allen leads the league in air yards and turnovers and at the bottom in RAC.  Placement pace and taking the easy options can improve those things.  I know it’s not cool to suggest Allen should improve in some areas but I feel that way. I also think he is the greatest thing that has happened to this franchise in a generation.  I just think there is something to the thought that Allen tries to do too much too often.  He does not need to.  Maybe the right personality at coordinator would be able to influence that.  

[Billsfan1972]

5 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

What is it that they say about doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results ... 

 

A. How long for that maturation?  McD's had 6 seasons now.  

 

B.  Beane can't hit home-runs or triples on days 1 & 2 of the Drafts to save his life.  

 

C.  Like clockwork, in the playoffs our Defense goes on vacation.  

 

D.  In the playoffs and in many regular season games we have to overcome our own coaching blunders and incompetencies to win often.  

 

I'm just curious how many more tries, seasons, will correct what even fans know is obvious.  

Remember we are told that the Bills were 13-3 this year.  It is the one defense heard over and over.  

 

This is a fan board and the many here look to McD as a messiah, who turned around a 2-14 team and made them into a juggernaut.

 

I say over and over he took over a team that yes I guess had issues and salary cap problems, but were in the playoff hunt in 2016 and lost in OT week 16.

 

McD took that team (a meaningless loss in week 17) and went from 7-9 to 9-7 and a Dalton miracle to the playoffs. 

 

Then they drafted Allen and decided to tear down the offense even more the following year and named NATAN PETERMAN the starter, when they had the #7 pick that needed to  be fast-tracked or mentored by a veteran early in the season.  They went 6-10.

 

Now 4 straight playoffs, but all ended badly (and three pointing the finger at coaching).     

 

 

And I have to again point out how this coaching staff coddled and stunted Allen.  

 

300 yards passing is generally used as a starting point with QB's.  It took Allen 28 starts to pass that # (part of McD's incredible 42 game stretch).

 

A look at his peers.

 

Burrow - 300 yards game 2 and 5X's in 10 games for a putrid Cincy team his rookie season

Mahomes - First game 284, 300 third game (and scary how easy thereafter).

Rodgers - Third game (yes I know on the bench behind Favre, not Peterman).

Lawrence - Game 1!!!!

Pickett - Game 1 (had to throw him in as it was vs. the Bills)🤣.

Jackson - Game 8

Herbert - Game 1!!!

Prescott - Game 9, however 8-1 and every game prior 227-290 yards

[LabattBlue]

Not even making it to the AFCCG the last two seasons is a bad look for BB & McD….but I guess as long as Allen can make them look good by qualifying for the playoffs, that all is well at OBD. 
 

When Allen is 30, and they still haven’t won a SB, the same people will be coming here making excuses and proclaiming that all is still well at OBD. 

[Chaos]

6 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

 

I don’t think this is a fair analogy.  Home runs is one small simple thing.   Playing qb is completely different, the qb is more than anything the position most responsible for team success in any sport.   Allen leads the league in air yards and turnovers and at the bottom in RAC.  Placement pace and taking the easy options can improve those things.  I know it’s not cool to suggest Allen should improve in some areas but I feel that way. I also think he is the greatest thing that has happened to this franchise in a generation.  I just think there is something to the thought that Allen tries to do too much too often.  He does not need to.  Maybe the right personality at coordinator would be able to influence that.  

Josh Allen's level of total production is at the very very top of the league. There is no meaningful upside. We need to hope he can maintain that level of play.  If his production dropped to the level of 10th best QB in the league, the Bills would struggle to win 8 games.