Your Gut Instinct: Are Beane/McDermott On Track to Win Championship(s) or Wasting J. Allen's talent?

[Alphadawg7]

On 2/4/2023 at 6:35 AM, Chaos said:

To my read opinions of posters on TBD are split on the Bills general direction.  One group thinks the Bills should stay the course and keeping doing the same things and that through some experience/maturation process the Bills will get better results.  The second group thinks the coaching staff has peaked and won't be able to do further in the playoffs than it has.   There is a smaller group that seems to think coaching changes automatically results in disaster and as long as your current coaches are competent NFL coaches and you don't should tempt the fates with a change. 

I am in the second group.  I am not sure thinking team McDermott has peaked means "fire everybody", but I feel like any further failure to progress means something should change. 

I may be guilty of overrating Josh Allen, but I think any current NFL coaching staff would get the Bills 2022 Roster to the playoffs, simply because Allen is that good.  So the goals have to be set higher than that. 

 

LOL...talk about skewing the answers to get you the result you want.  This poll is a fail 

[OldTimer1960]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

I'm not only talking about speed

 

I mean athleticism in the sense that it's the ability to make a catch while adjusting for a misplaced ball and stay on balance to make the initial defender miss

 

It's being able to maintain leverage throughout your route to create separation and an easier target which is a function of strength and agility as well as speed

 

Or just the immediate knowledge that once the ball is in your hands you are imposing upon the defense instead of worrying about whether your body is in the right position to secure the pass 

If that is the case, I agree, except for Diggs.

[zow2]

The coaching simply has to be better, especially in the playoffs.  If the game plan is failing, be flexible and fix it on the fly like other good teams do.

 

I don't know if they're wasting Allen's talent, but his prime years are happening NOW and are definitely being wasted.  He should've been in a Super Bowl by now.  Yes, 13 seconds was the year.  We had the best team, and coaching strategy blew it.

 

As great as Allen is, he needs to button up his game a bit too.  No reason he should lead all QB's in turnovers.  That's crushing.  Jalen Hurts has less experience, throws the ball downfield a bunch, uses his legs...and his turnover rate is way less than Allen's.  Josh has to better understand risk/reward type stuff.

[LABILLBACKER]

8 hours ago, damj said:

We should still be a contender, but we need things to fall into place and some luck to win a championship. Our talent and coaching is good enough to get us to the play-offs, but I'm not sold that coaching is strong enough to put us over the top, so we'll have to rely on Josh to overcome coaching

I mean with Josh you have a punchers chance to make the playoffs every year. The problem starts with higher tier playoff competition,  our coaches crap their collective pants. Not enough opponent strategy,  adjustments or any clever deception. We become so predictable that there's almost no point in competing. 

[CincyBillsFan]

8 hours ago, zow2 said:

As great as Allen is, he needs to button up his game a bit too.  No reason he should lead all QB's in turnovers.  That's crushing.  Jalen Hurts has less experience, throws the ball downfield a bunch, uses his legs...and his turnover rate is way less than Allen's.  Josh has to better understand risk/reward type stuff.

Hurts plays behind the best offensive line in football and is surrounded by multiple elite game breaking play makers. If Allen threw for 120 yards in a playoff game, 40 of which came on an incomplete pass the refs missed, certain Bills fans would be screaming for his head.

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by CincyBillsFan

[Wayne Arnold]

21 hours ago, zow2 said:

Jalen Hurts has less experience, throws the ball downfield a bunch, uses his legs...and his turnover rate is way less than Allen's.  Josh has to better understand risk/reward type stuff.

 

Don't disrespect Allen by comparing him to Jalen Hurts ever again.

 

Hurts is a solid player on a stacked team with a great scheme.

 

Allen is a generational player.

 

Switch quarterbacks, Bills are an 8-8 team while the Eagles are looking to go 19-0 on Sunday.

[BUFFALOTONE]

My fear is if the team can’t figure it out in the next few years Allen will grow tired of the same BS and force his way out. Would be devastating to say the least. All the donations and shoveling his driveway won’t mean anything. 

[Italian Bills]

Honestly, very honestly: are you really convinced that the Jets, Phins and maybe even the Pats will be better than the Bills next season ??? 
 

Lately i read many of you thinking this way, are you serious ? 
 

The Bills won’t own the Division anymore ? 
 

A team with JA17 at the helmet will fall behind those teams ? 
 

Please tell me the truth: is this what you really think ? 
 

I can’t believe it ! 

[Nextmanup]

Giulio, it's going to get harder next year.  Way too early right now to judge things like this however.  We have to see how each of the teams handles the off-season.  There are contract restructures, losing players, acquiring players in free agency, and the draft!  

 

Each of these teams will look different in September than they do now.  They are talking about Aaron Rodgers maybe going to the Jets.  If he goes there, yes, they could compete for the division next year.

 

It's way too early to be worried about this stuff.  Now is the time to get ready for the upcoming F1 season (New Ferrari will be unveiled in Maranello on Tuesday!)  and maybe do some research for the draft.

 

Forza Ferrari! 

 

 

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

On 2/7/2023 at 12:34 PM, newcam2012 said:

I think the Bills organization has let down Allen and it's fans. They have clearly failed to provide adequate protection and dangerous weapons for theor elite QB.

 

They have mostly missed on drafting solid offensive pieces. Some could argue rhey neglected it with a heavy concentration on the defense side of the ball.

 

They have failed to produce in the playoffs. Look at what KC did. Mahomes wins Super Bowl quickly and appears in another. Eagles with Hurts makes Super Bowl in his 3rd year. Allen in 6 years has no appearances. That says it all folks. You have you answer.. 

 I agree with this especially when you have a generational Qb. Kc turns no stone to provide those things for Mahomes. I think they gladly give a bit up on the defensive side of the ball but they pay an aggressive d and found some disrupters on their D line. 

 

I believe Mcd knows the pressure is on. I don’t remember ever hearing him mention winning a Super Bowl so much in his season ending Pc. Before the line was figuring out how to leap Kc.  I think the players right now want or maybe demand answers, we want answers and we seem to be just stuck. 

 

Sure the window is always open with Josh but the Afc is loaded with some really talented Qb. We need  to get to a Super Bowl and looking at next years schedule along with limited resources this off-season, the hurdle to make that next leap is quite tall. Patience is waning and other teams both AFC and NFC are building talented rosters.

 

I’ve heard a lot of discussion recently regarding having an offensive mind as a head coach so you don’t risk losing them if they do a good job. Makes sense.

 

I am a big Mcd fan and appreciative for keeping the team together but it’s a legitimate question if he can take us over the top..and how long do we wait.? .
 

I can only wonder what the thinking is at OBD for this season. 

They may chalk the past season up to all the injuries and expect his D to revert back to a dominant form with what we hope is a healthy Von coming back.

 

Dorsey will be in second year and we did score a  lot of points  but how much of that was Josh willing us to points vs less than inspiring play calling at times? 
 

So I guess where I am at is I just don’t know where we go lol And maybe neither does Beane judging from his end of year conference .

 

I think they realize that a good number of investments haven’t  panned out. We took a big shot on Von but we probably should have made that move the year prior at the trade deadline..

 

Its frustrating because I feel less confident going into this season and Josh is going into year 6 now… 

 

Maybe our Super Bowl year will be a year with a little luck and less expectations.. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Billsflyer12]

20 minutes ago, loveorhatembillsfan4life said:

 I agree with this especially when you have a generational Qb. Kc turns no stone to provide those things for Mahomes. I think they gladly give a bit up on the defensive side of the ball but they pay an aggressive d and found some disrupters on their D line. 

 

I believe Mcd knows the pressure is on. I don’t remember ever hearing him mention winning a Super Bowl so much in his season ending Pc. Before the line was figuring out how to leap Kc.  I think the players right now want or maybe demand answers, we want answers and we seem to be just stuck. 

 

Sure the window is always open with Josh but the Afc is loaded with some really talented Qb. We need  to get to a Super Bowl and looking at next years schedule along with limited resources this off-season, the hurdle to make that next leap is quite tall. Patience is waning and other teams both AFC and NFC are building talented rosters.

 

I’ve heard a lot of discussion recently regarding having an offensive mind as a head coach so you don’t risk losing them if they do a good job. Makes sense.

 

I am a big Mcd fan and appreciative for keeping the team together but it’s a legitimate question if he can take us over the top..and how long do we wait.? .
 

I can only wonder what the thinking is at OBD for this season. 

They may chalk the past season up to all the injuries and expect his D to revert back to a dominant form with what we hope is a healthy Von coming back.

 

Dorsey will be in second year and we did score a  lot of points  but how much of that was Josh willing us to points vs less than inspiring play calling at times? 
 

So I guess where I am at is I just don’t know where we go lol And maybe neither does Beane judging from his end of year conference .

 

I think they realize that a good number of investments haven’t  panned out. We took a big shot on Von but we probably should have made that move the year prior at the trade deadline..

 

Its frustrating because I feel less confident going into this season and Josh is going into year 6 now… 

 

Maybe our Super Bowl year will be a year with a little luck and less expectations.. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Having a defensive head coach in a offensive/QB era is a real problem in 2 ways.

 

1). Continuity on offense.  If OC is good he is hired elsewhere, if OC is bad he is fired.  Hired or fired is bad for QB and offensive consistency.

 

2). HOF QB Steve Young talked about this recently and it was fascinating.  Basically he said having a defensive coach as head coach was a problem for the offense because his natural or maybe even unconscious traits are to make decisions that protect their defense.  I had never thought of it like this.  For me in playoffs you definitely see McDermott defaulting to this thinking, much to the detriment of the offense and team in general.  His game management decisions, either punt/go, FG/go or timeouts for example lean heavily toward protecting the defense.  His natural instincts in pressure moments are to trust a stop more than trust Josh to get 2 or 6 yds on 4th.  That’s a huge problem for me.

 

This doesn’t make Sean a bad coach, or bad leader.  It makes him a bad fit for this team and this era.

Edited February 11, 2023 by Billsflyer12

[Thrivefourfive]

Listen, McDermott was glowing after the Rams game with how dominant our OLine and DLine played. He (and Beane) obviously thought they had it figured out, and that made their chests puff out. 
 

So they know. They know how important the trenches are. It is going to be their highest priorities this off season. There’s no doubt about it. 
 

The stinky part is they’ve failed so far. And they know that too. 
 

So I’m going to go back and vote. I think they are plenty aware and are not of the mindset of wasting this opportunity with Josh Allen as QB. They’ll either figure it out, or die trying. I vote for headed to a championship. 

[dhgold]

I'm torn on this issue. On the one end, McDermott resurected the Bills, changing the organization from a laughingstock that never sniffed the playoffs to a perenial contender. You could make the case that he's the best coach in the team's history.

 

On the other hand, I still haven't gotten over 13 seconds, a total coaching failure, and am still actively pissed about the top-to-bottom piss-poor performance the Bills put forth agains the Bengals. The peformance against the Bengals was so disappointing that everyone involved deserves some blame but ultimately when the entire team fails to show up and nothing changes throughout the entire game, the preponderance of blame has to fall on the coaches.

 

I'm afraid that McDermott is a very good coach but not one good enough to win the Super Bowl. Conversely I'm afraid that if the team replaced the coaching staff, they would end up with something much less competent and it would be right back to cellar dwelling. I live in Denver where I've had a close up view of how quickly a team can go from elite -- Super Bowl champion ! -- to a hopeless laughingstock stuck on the coaching treadmill.

[LABILLBACKER]

On 2/7/2023 at 5:57 AM, OldTimer1960 said:

I disagree on Diggs.  He is plenty athletic and Route running is really the best skill.  Most receivers are not markedly faster than most DBs in the NFL.  Quickness, route running and scheme are important.  Yes super top end speed and leaping ability and size help, but there are plenty of great receivers that are good NFL athletes, not great by NFL standards.

 

Agree that Davis and McKenzie are not top level receivers, but that doesn’t mean only super top athletes succeed at receiver.  Look at the NFL receiving leaders, some are super fast, many aren’t.

Completely agree. Look at Cooper Kupp. He only ran a 4.62 and fell to the 3rd. The Rams did their homework and got a SB mvp.

[DrPJax]

On 2/4/2023 at 10:45 AM, HOUSE said:

What ever happened to TRUST THE PROCESS?

     Lol, problem is eventually the process has to produce a championship, not just be a catch phrase. 6 years is a very long process in the nfl culture, and other, Less tenured coaches have already made SB appearances ; that’s just a hard fact to ignore , and they seemingly did it with less overall talent.

   

       There is only one ultimately acceptable end product , a Lombardi. And that’s the basis of this business.   Every coaching staff in the NFL has and will be measured by their ability to do that one thing, so it’s easy to see either ultimate success or failure.  Guys who are coaches, getting paid very high salaries, understand that and know their time will usually either show quick success ( a championship, not repeatedly falling short of even getting a chance to win one yet; the process has not even actually gotten to the final game,  coupled with a franchise whose history is shared with only a few others who also have never won even once), or they will be replaced as there is a never ending pool of talent who just might be better. 

 

      There is no promise of linear progression to a championship and this fan base should know that more than any other. Who is to say that 13 seconds might not be to this staff what wide right was to Levy and Kelly ?  They peaked at 51-3 , missed that one opportunity to win it all, and never really got close again despite regular season success.  Their future was sealed as a team/ staff and they never did win it all. 

 

     So, how do you ask a group of people who has been thru that type of ultimate failure to just hold onto a catch phrase when they went from right on the verge of possibly moving on, while actually healthy, playing their best and hottest football, staring at playing the AFC championship on their home field, only to blow it with 13 seconds ( analogous to wide right as the last play), then follow that up with one of the worst home playoff losses in franchise history, and not expect people to lose some trust?  They have just seen proof that at least 3 teams now ( kc, CINCY, EAGLES, & possibly the 49 ers, and Miami is closing fast ) have leap frogged in front of them getting further In the playoffs the past two years,  so its hardly an aberration. 

     

     I don’t have the answers, but I do know THE PROCESS was never sold as something supposed to take 6-7 years to actually  produce.    Now they are facing the reality that their drafting results along the lines didn’t pan out, they continue to fail to produce an effective running game  in critical situations , and their go to passing attack may actually, as it currently stands, lack enough talent ( compared to peers KC & CINCY) to expect to get past those teams.  

      They have  watched other teams poach players from them and get production as the Bills failed to develop them to the point of  even getting them on the active roster regularly, and now are facing cap ramifications that might cost them losing supposed pro bowl talent.  I don’t think any of that is just being pessimistic to just be pessimistic , but actually is how many analysts are discussing the  situation.without rose colored glasses on.

 

       So, that is THE PROCESS up to this point; that’s the reality of the product.   It sure seems impossible to think with Allen as your franchise qb,  that’s the best THE PROCESS might produce , but if you went through the Kelly/ Marino  era seeing no titles, maybe  not TRUSTING THE PROCESS is not so surprising.  At some point you have to produce , after all, somebody DOES PRODUCE every year, right? I don’t remember  the NFL ever not crowning a SB champion!  It’s not impossible, so why not have high expectations?    I really like mcd, but for a guy who always is spouting “no excuses”, his teams sure have blown thru a lot of them. Lol !  BTW, big fan, you always got the diagnosis right on your show with s***  I  had a hard time finding in text books , so why cant you fix this Bills crap?  I 😂. Down some hydrocodone, and post the solution asap! 😀