Your Gut Instinct: Are Beane/McDermott On Track to Win Championship(s) or Wasting J. Allen's talent?

[Royale with Cheese]

9 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

They made plays because the defense let them.  They had 3 OL's out and the Bills had no pressure.

 

Yes the Bills secondary was decimated, but how about making a play, stepping up or a defensive scheme that made it difficult for Cincy to get thnings done.  It wasn't 2-3 plays, they moved the ball at will and had 30 first downs.

 

Oh & no TO's.  Not surprised because I thought they were not very good the second half of the season either and many were lucky or vs. bad QB's.

 

On the Offensive side, the Bills as they had been much of the second half of the season were/looked disjointed.  Again so many here claimed that wasn't the case when anyone brought it up and that Allen only had to protect the ball better.

 

When they needed just 1 first down prior to the half to get into FG range (heck 5 yards), that should have been their goal and the play calls.  First & goal the second half and 3 lousy calls by Dorsey.

 

And to top it off again 3rd & 2 and a long pass to the one receiver we all know won't make a contested catch, draw a penalty and if at all covered probably drops it Davis, and exactly what happened.

 

Do you know 100% for sure that Dorsey told Allen to avoid all the other WR's even if they're wide open on that play and told him to throw to Davis regardless?

[Billsfan1972]

26 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Do you know 100% for sure that Dorsey told Allen to avoid all the other WR's even if they're wide open on that play and told him to throw to Davis regardless?

I actually did, as Dorsey called me after and confirmed it.....😝

 

That play bothered me (like many others), because there was still hope and I envisioned a Brady-like comeback and while a perfect pass, it was to Davis and we know what he is often want to do.  

 

Add to that Cincy played smart, no penalties and the Bills called for a #.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Billsfan1972

[Billsfan1972]

17 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

It's not all coaching. 

 

Simple execution from the players was a major problem too.  There wasn't anyone on this board who was more upset about drops than you.  We had a ton of drops and in crucial situations.  That's not on coaching.  What was coached was the play design and that worked, the player didn't.

 

Allen made a ton of mistakes as well.  He couldn't stop turning the ball over, especially in the redzone.  He went from being nearly perfect in the redzone in his first couple of years to now leading the league in giveaways.  That was a major problem for us.

 

We never righted the ship after the GB game and it was a combination of coaching, player execution and several injuries.

 

Welcome back....  Wanted too to say my goodbye to you prior to my hiatus until September😉.

 

I don't disagree, plenty of blame to go around.

 

I talked about drops, but frankly was more bothered about the lack of contested or tough catches by the team.

 

And don't disagree there either, but again I see coaching as part of the reason for the regression.  

 

I clearly think to the Minny game and that stupid 4th & goal, where even I wanted to kick a fg.  Then OT when it looked like the Bills would salvage it and a TD.  Plenty of options to get closer and a FD and when Allen threw it, it looked effortless and I was expecting a wide open receiver and a TD and instead a simple int.  Allen hadn't done that since his second season.  I was shocked.    

 

What I said too over and over is we never saw easy receptions or receivers running open/separation.  Every catch seemed like it needed to be a perfect pass.  Everything seemed a slog imo.      

[Royale with Cheese]

34 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I actually did, as Dorsey called me after and confirmed it.....😝

 

That play bothered me (like many others), because there was still hope and I envisioned a Brady-like comeback and while a perfect pass, it was to Davis and we know what he is often want to do.  

 

Add to that Cincy played smart, no penalties and the Bills called for a #.

 

There were other options and Josh chose to go to Gabe.  Cover 1 or one of the social media outlets broke down that play and Josh missed someone wide open underneath.  It was Beasley I think...wide open.  I think Cook was also open in the flat and could have converted the 1st.  

Now it should have been a catch, it was a bad drop by Davis and we wouldn't be talking about it if it was completed.  But to say that's on coaching is not correct at all.

It was player execution on that.  Allen choosing to go deep over taking the easier 1st down and Gabe not catching it.  That's not coaching.

[Rebel101]

On 2/4/2023 at 9:49 AM, Beast said:

They should have won the SB last season with pretty much the same roster. However, they need to improve on the o-line and another dynamic target at WR for me to feel they are a legit contender to win it.

So coaching isn’t the reason they keep failing? They seem on a downward projection. I believe 13 seconds was their peak moment. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

They made plays because the defense let them.  They had 3 OL's out and the Bills had no pressure.

 

Yes the Bills secondary was decimated, but how about making a play, stepping up or a defensive scheme that made it difficult for Cincy to get thnings done.  It wasn't 2-3 plays, they moved the ball at will and had 30 first downs.

 

Oh & no TO's.  Not surprised because I thought they were not very good the second half of the season either and many were lucky or vs. bad QB's.

 

On the Offensive side, the Bills as they had been much of the second half of the season were/looked disjointed.  Again so many here claimed that wasn't the case when anyone brought it up and that Allen only had to protect the ball better.

 

When they needed just 1 first down prior to the half to get into FG range (heck 5 yards), that should have been their goal and the play calls.  First & goal the second half and 3 lousy calls by Dorsey.

 

And to top it off again 3rd & 2 and a long pass to the one receiver we all know won't make a contested catch, draw a penalty and if at all covered probably drops it Davis, and exactly what happened.

 

Yes, the Bills played terribly. Their guys made plays. Ours didn't. 

[BUFFALOTONE]

Its odd, I think Sean is the right HC for the job, but his Coordinators are not up to the task. Frazier is over the hill and boring, and Dorsey is too inexperienced even with this season under his belt. His scheme is boring and predictable not to mention we do not have the players or OL to run it. Its dysfunctional.

 

Our Defense is made up of undersized DTs with the exception of Phillips who was banged up. Our Back end is essentially non existent and our CBs are middle of the road. We need a better scheme and new blood calling the plays. Period. 

[Gregg]

2 minutes ago, BUFFALOTONE said:

Its odd, I think Sean is the right HC for the job, but his Coordinators are not up to the task. Frazier is over the hill and boring, and Dorsey is too inexperienced even with this season under his belt. His scheme is boring and predictable not to mention we do not have the players or OL to run it. Its dysfunctional.

 

Our Defense is made up of undersized DTs with the exception of Phillips who was banged up. Our Back end is essentially non existent and our CBs are middle of the road. We need a better scheme and new blood calling the plays. Period. 

 

Beane needs to draft better. Outside of Allen his drafting hasn't been all that great.

[Billsfan1972]

27 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

There were other options and Josh chose to go to Gabe.  Cover 1 or one of the social media outlets broke down that play and Josh missed someone wide open underneath.  It was Beasley I think...wide open.  I think Cook was also open in the flat and could have converted the 1st.  

Now it should have been a catch, it was a bad drop by Davis and we wouldn't be talking about it if it was completed.  But to say that's on coaching is not correct at all.

It was player execution on that.  Allen choosing to go deep over taking the easier 1st down and Gabe not catching it.  That's not coaching.

Something happened and there was a disconnect with Allen & the offense the second half.  You could see it and not sure what it was.  After the Pitt game, there were less long balls and then all of a sudden then there was a huge uptick & not sure what happened.

 

Cover 1 I'm sure is correct, but something happened and either Allen was missing reads or coaching was flawed imo.  I also mentioned that Allen seemed to be pressing as he felt pressure and often the Defense would allow those long drives and Allen would be overanxious when back in.  I used the first NYJ game and 7-8 minute drives and Allen then wanting to score immediately.   

14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yes, the Bills played terribly. Their guys made plays. Ours didn't. 

Bad timing....😉

[Royale with Cheese]

16 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Something happened and there was a disconnect with Allen & the offense the second half.  You could see it and not sure what it was.  After the Pitt game, there were less long balls and then all of a sudden then there was a huge uptick & not sure what happened.

 

Cover 1 I'm sure is correct, but something happened and either Allen was missing reads or coaching was flawed imo.  I also mentioned that Allen seemed to be pressing as he felt pressure and often the Defense would allow those long drives and Allen would be overanxious when back in.  I used the first NYJ game and 7-8 minute drives and Allen then wanting to score immediately.   

Bad timing....😉

 

This we can agree on.  We were outcoached, destroyed in the trenches, our secondary was confused, we missed tackles, we dropped balls etc...

In every facet of that game, we were beat.  

 

I just don't agree that you can just put all blame in one area.  It's a 48 player active roster with a dozen coaches....it's a collective effort.  Sometimes its more player execution, sometimes its more the player/coaching game day decisions, sometimes it's the game plan and sometimes it's an off day.  The Bengals game, it was everyone and everything.  We were beat as bad as the 2020 Colts game.

[Airseven]

Nobody is wasting Allen. Allen has plenty of flaws himself. As a collective, they seem to have plateaued particularly because of poor drafting.

[Billsfan1972]

5 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

This we can agree on.  We were outcoached, destroyed in the trenches, our secondary was confused, we missed tackles, we dropped balls etc...

In every facet of that game, we were beat.  

 

I just don't agree that you can just put all blame in one area.  It's a 48 player active roster with a dozen coaches....it's a collective effort.  Sometimes its more player execution, sometimes its more the player/coaching game day decisions, sometimes it's the game plan and sometimes it's an off day.  The Bengals game, it was everyone and everything.  We were beat as bad as the 2020 Colts game.

I am staying on this site way too long, discussing a game 2.5 weeks old, which while they never deserved to win, funny that I can point out a few plays and next thing you know it would have been a game, the crowd back in it and maybe too the players.

 

With Allen, this team is still a SB contender next year and just about ready to pull the plug and sign off 'til September.  I'm not a draft guy (of course follow it) or X & O's, again watch some film now and replay certain plays.

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yes, the Bills played terribly. Their guys made plays. Ours didn't. 

 

Part of that though is setting the players up for success. Calling runs out of shotgun on a snowy field, never getting the offense in rhythm with quick passes against a potent pass rush, the offensive line looking unprepared to handle delayed blitzes, etc. And that's just on the offensive side. On defense we were also totally out schemed. Free releases to their receivers, letting their below average run game run all over us because they managed to get Taron Johnson matched up against a pulling guard. Frankly the whole team was completely unprepared for everything the Bengals threw at us. That is not a case of their talent making a few more plays than our talent. It was a coaching mismatch as much as it was a talent mismatch.

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by HappyDays

[HappyDays]

@GunnerBill I know you disagree with that post. But as an extreme example can you imagine the Patriots in their heyday ever looking completely unprepared for a playoff matchup? They didn't always make it to and win the Super Bowl but they were always prepared for their opponent despite not always being necessarily as talented. That's what great coaching gets you. You're always in it with a chance. This coaching staff under McDermott has not given the team a chance to win in each of the last two playoff exits. I agree the talent discrepancy between us and the Bengals is real but considering they were down three starting OL it was not as big a discrepancy as it looked on the field. Their players were put in a position for success. Ours were not. That's all I'm saying.

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

@GunnerBill I know you disagree with that post. But as an extreme example can you imagine the Patriots in their heyday ever looking completely unprepared for a playoff matchup? They didn't always make it to and win the Super Bowl but they were always prepared for their opponent despite not always being necessarily as talented. That's what great coaching gets you. You're always in it with a chance. This coaching staff under McDermott has not given the team a chance to win in each of the last two playoff exits. I agree the talent discrepancy between us and the Bengals is real but considering they were down three starting OL it was not as big a discrepancy as it looked on the field. Their players were put in a position for success. Ours were not. That's all I'm saying.

 

What about when they lost to the Sanchize? Or when Ray Rice ran all over them in the wildcard round? It happens. It is always a combination of everything... coaching plays a part and execution plays a part too. The Bills got their asses kicked by the Bengals and while the coaches were certainly not faultless it comes down at some stage to man on man you have got to do your job. 

[WideNine]

4 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I don’t believe that is true Josh Allen very seldom has a clean pocket

 

Not sure where he pulls his data from, but it was a reference to when he has a clean pocket. No indication of how small the sample size was.

 

Apparently the few times he did his completion percentage dropped.

 

Perhaps something lost in the translation, here's the link to the podcast worth a listen.

 

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vUFBZNDkwNDU5ODc2Nw/episode/YmU3YTUxNDAtYTA1YS0xMWVkLTlhOTUtOGYyMmRhYTg1ODU2?ep=14

 

 

[GoBills808]

2 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I disagree on Diggs.  He is plenty athletic and Route running is really the best skill.  Most receivers are not markedly faster than most DBs in the NFL.  Quickness, route running and scheme are important.  Yes super top end speed and leaping ability and size help, but there are plenty of great receivers that are good NFL athletes, not great by NFL standards.

 

Agree that Davis and McKenzie are not top level receivers, but that doesn’t mean only super top athletes succeed at receiver.  Look at the NFL receiving leaders, some are super fast, many aren’t.

I'm not only talking about speed

 

I mean athleticism in the sense that it's the ability to make a catch while adjusting for a misplaced ball and stay on balance to make the initial defender miss

 

It's being able to maintain leverage throughout your route to create separation and an easier target which is a function of strength and agility as well as speed

 

Or just the immediate knowledge that once the ball is in your hands you are imposing upon the defense instead of worrying about whether your body is in the right position to secure the pass 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

@GunnerBill I know you disagree with that post. But as an extreme example can you imagine the Patriots in their heyday ever looking completely unprepared for a playoff matchup? They didn't always make it to and win the Super Bowl but they were always prepared for their opponent despite not always being necessarily as talented. That's what great coaching gets you. You're always in it with a chance. This coaching staff under McDermott has not given the team a chance to win in each of the last two playoff exits. I agree the talent discrepancy between us and the Bengals is real but considering they were down three starting OL it was not as big a discrepancy as it looked on the field. Their players were put in a position for success. Ours were not. That's all I'm saying.

The regular season undefeated Patriots offense looked completely unprepared against the Giants in the Super Bowl.  Brady has the quickest release in the NFL and the offensive line couldn’t hold blocks long enough for that.

[newcam2012]

I think the Bills organization has let down Allen and it's fans. They have clearly failed to provide adequate protection and dangerous weapons for theor elite QB.

 

They have mostly missed on drafting solid offensive pieces. Some could argue rhey neglected it with a heavy concentration on the defense side of the ball.

 

They have failed to produce in the playoffs. Look at what KC did. Mahomes wins Super Bowl quickly and appears in another. Eagles with Hurts makes Super Bowl in his 3rd year. Allen in 6 years has no appearances. That says it all folks. You have you answer.. 

[damj]

We should still be a contender, but we need things to fall into place and some luck to win a championship. Our talent and coaching is good enough to get us to the play-offs, but I'm not sold that coaching is strong enough to put us over the top, so we'll have to rely on Josh to overcome coaching