Should the Bills switch to a 3-4 defense?

[machine gun kelly]

This is not the brightest of ideas.  We’ve just never got the most out of Basham and AJE.

[The Wiz]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

Well, the only problem with that line of reasoning is that they did play a base 4-3 a couple of years ago, but were forced to abandon it because we had no capable LBs to fill those roles, particularly with Edmunds OJT-ing it and Milano primarily a pass-defending LB until late last and this seasons.  

 

Beane's drafting has led to poor day 1 and day 2 results.  When you constantly have overlay your prior draft picks with picks at the same positions, you have no choice but to neglect other unit needs.  

Forced to abandon it or choose to play a with what they still had left on the roster from Rex and build towards the nickel defense they have been using for the last 4 years?

 

2018 had lorax, Edmunds and Milano and lorax started 8 games that year.

 

So if you're referring to 2017 when McD took over as HC then yes, he did play a 4-3 because they didn't have the players they have now to run nickel all the time.

 

Basically they built the team the way that McD and Frazier wanted it and all I see you doing is blaming beane at the end of every reply so if that's where you want to put the blame, so be it, but he's doing what the coaching staff is asking for.

[LABILLBACKER]

4 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

What players do you think would fit better in a 3-4? I’ve got two maybes in Oliver and Edmunds. Oliver is on his 5th year option and Edmunds is an FA. So right now we have 1 excellent LB under contract in Milano. But we don’t have another one that’s even starting level. 

 

Since we do not actually play a 4-3 - we play almost exclusively Nickel - why incorporate a 3-4 at all? when would we even want to put that on the field?

Technically we play a 4-2-5. There's never a 3rd linebacker on the field.  And realistically Edmunds is a strong safety backpedaling into coverage. So we run a 4-1-6 Tampa2 zone. It only works if you get immediate pressure on the qb.  It would take 2-3 years to switch. We need more front 4 pressure.  We need less zone and more man press (30%).

[LABILLBACKER]

8 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Forced to abandon it or choose to play a with what they still had left on the roster from Rex and build towards the nickel defense they have been using for the last 4 years?

 

2018 had lorax, Edmunds and Milano and lorax started 8 games that year.

 

So if you're referring to 2017 when McD took over as HC then yes, he did play a 4-3 because they didn't have the players they have now to run nickel all the time.

 

Basically they built the team the way that McD and Frazier wanted it and all I see you doing is blaming beane at the end of every reply so if that's where you want to put the blame, so be it, but he's doing what the coaching staff is asking for.

Beane is not the glaring problem for this organization.  It's McDermott's incessant need for defensive players over using common sense and building around Josh. Look at all the draft capital and cap$ we've used on defense. I highly doubt Beane just did that on his own. 

[The Wiz]

29 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Beane is not the glaring problem for this organization.  It's McDermott's incessant need for defensive players over using common sense and building around Josh. Look at all the draft capital and cap$ we've used on defense. I highly doubt Beane just did that on his own. 

The other problem is McD's "you have to earn it" mentality to playing players.

 

James Cook - 25% of offensive snap counts

Kalil Shakir - 29% of offensive snap counts

Taiwan Jones - 0% of offensive snap counts

 

But Taiwan gets the spot because why?  He's earned it (not saying he took a roster spot from either of them on game day but just the way he uses players seems to be based on his philosophy).

Edited February 4, 2023 by The Wiz

[Coldfronts]

No, I think they need to play a 5 -2 D

[PrimeTime101]

5 hours ago, Tipster19 said:

Between the players we have and the players that we’ll have coming up for new contracts it may be time to change the defensive philosophy. I also think that replacing and/or adding new players will be easier and cheaper to do. Looking at the current roster we already have plenty of the pieces in house. Adding more LBers will be needed but once again they should be pretty easy to find, especially in the draft where 4th and 5th rders can provide great replacements.

you have to either have 0 knowledge of what the 3-4 is, 0 knowledge of what we have, little knowledge of what we are set up for right now, Football itself, or a troll..

I will add a mixture of a few things.

 

but.. Ill Bite for the sake of being kind...

 

3-4 is 3 down lineman with 4 LBS. Now. there are a couple teams that run a variant of this by adding an extra DB instead of a LB but thats just a 3-3-5 no matter what they call it. 

 

to run a good 3-4(keeping in mind this is a base defense that is mostly run on short downs and sometimes base on first down) you need a NT that will rock their world.

We do not really have that.

 

THEN you need 4 really good LBS with one of those LBS rotating with a DB and another rotating with Blitz/Cover LB.

 

Now ask yourself (while I still consider the first bolded statement and what fits you best). Do we have the funds do make such a flip on defense knowing all we need on offense and do we have the DC in sight to make such changes happen?

 

NVM, I have thought it through... its a mix bag of "WOW"

[3rdand12]

4 hours ago, Southern_Bills said:

No. Just no. Maybe if you fired the DC and hired a 3-4 guy and he gave assurances that he can make this roster work. Even then he's going to want a few pieces, which in turn takes away from the offense.

 

I really wish we could just hire Jim Schwartz back in all honesty.

I loved Jim. Wish we could have made that work.

 He and Kromer are both bad asses

[Tipster19]

16 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

you have to either have 0 knowledge of what the 3-4 is, 0 knowledge of what we have, little knowledge of what we are set up for right now, Football itself, or a troll..

I will add a mixture of a few things.

 

but.. Ill Bite for the sake of being kind...

 

3-4 is 3 down lineman with 4 LBS. Now. there are a couple teams that run a variant of this by adding an extra DB instead of a LB but thats just a 3-3-5 no matter what they call it. 

 

to run a good 3-4(keeping in mind this is a base defense that is mostly run on short downs and sometimes base on first down) you need a NT that will rock their world.

We do not really have that.

 

THEN you need 4 really good LBS with one of those LBS rotating with a DB and another rotating with Blitz/Cover LB.

 

Now ask yourself (while I still consider the first bolded statement and what fits you best). Do we have the funds do make such a flip on defense knowing all we need on offense and do we have the DC in sight to make such changes happen?

 

NVM, I have thought it through... its a mix bag of "WOW"

It’s your reading comprehension that impresses me the most…

[PrimeTime101]

1 minute ago, Tipster19 said:

It’s your reading comprehension that impresses me the most…

thanks for making my mind up as to what categories you fall into. You act like this is an easy change. its not.

[Tenhigh]

6 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

What players do you think would fit better in a 3-4? I’ve got two maybes in Oliver and Edmunds. Oliver is on his 5th year option and Edmunds is an FA. So right now we have 1 excellent LB under contract in Milano. But we don’t have another one that’s even starting level. 

 

Since we do not actually play a 4-3 - we play almost exclusively Nickel - why incorporate a 3-4 at all? when would we even want to put that on the field?

 Kind of kidding, but since we have no pressure in a 4-3 anyway, maybe a 3-4 would help vs the pass?

[nucci]

we barely have 2 good LBs. How will we find 4?

[Johnnyp566]

It feels like 2009 again. 

[Billz4ever]

How about we just hire the ghost of Buddy Ryan as our DC and bring back the 46? 😂

[Rico]

5 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

How about we just hire the ghost of Buddy Ryan as our DC and bring back the 46? 😂

 They do need someone to kick their asses & play with fire, been saying that since the AFCCG Chiefs debacle.

[JaCrispy]

I prefer 4-3 under we ran under Pettine 👍

[nedboy7]

I think we should run the triangle.  Get Phil to come out of retirement. 

[LABILLBACKER]

46 minutes ago, nucci said:

we barely have 2 good LBs. How will we find 4?

Exactly...Spector and Bernard are terrible...we're about to lose Edmunds...that leaves Milano....it's not happening,  would take way to long to flip back. 

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, The Wiz said:

Forced to abandon it or choose to play a with what they still had left on the roster from Rex and build towards the nickel defense they have been using for the last 4 years?

 

2018 had lorax, Edmunds and Milano and lorax started 8 games that year.

 

So if you're referring to 2017 when McD took over as HC then yes, he did play a 4-3 because they didn't have the players they have now to run nickel all the time.

 

Basically they built the team the way that McD and Frazier wanted it and all I see you doing is blaming beane at the end of every reply so if that's where you want to put the blame, so be it, but he's doing what the coaching staff is asking for.

 

As I said, Milano wasn't very good back then, in fact, his value was purely as a pass-D LB, his run-D skills were among the worst in the league.  

 

As to Lorax, yes, but he was on the downside as well.  

 

I guess it's possible that they built the roster to only have two competent LBs, although under any circumstances that would seem to be incredibly foolish.  It also feeds into why the D is so bad.  

 

I'll throw another wrench at you, perhaps it's that way because McD isn't in fact a good coach.  He's a former DB, and in coaching a former DB Coach turned average-at-best DC.  So it's quite possible we have a Peter Principle in action here.  

[3rdand12]

2 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

This is not the brightest of ideas.  We’ve just never got the most out of Basham and AJE.

Multiples is what was preached from McD

 Week to week matchups.
surely more flexibility can be  derived from this defense.
and why not put Basham and AJE or even Groot as LB once and agin ?

34 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

How about we just hire the ghost of Buddy Ryan as our DC and bring back the 46? 😂

Hoped for Fangio actually  lol