Old Bills ≠ New Bills

[ShakAttack]

Well, now that KC has represented the AFC in 3 of the past 4 Super Bowls...

 

While the NFC has had a different team reach the SB each year.

 

That's enough for me to root for the Eagles.

 

Because I AM in the "one before I die" camp and I DO believe we would've had that ONE if the Chiefs did not exist.

[Don Otreply]

On 2/3/2023 at 8:25 PM, Hermes said:

I get that a lot of Bills fans love to reminisce about the old days and Kelly and the K-gun and the great D with Bruce and HOF caliber players all over the field. But this incessant nonsense comparing the team now to a team that played together 30 years ago IS A JOKE.

 

Get over your nostalgia and live in the moment. The Bills weren't good enough this year. It's that simple.  I'm so sick of people trying to justify the fact that they weren't the best team in NFL by the fact that 30 years ago things 'felt' similar. 

 

As much as the next guy/gal I want to see the Bills take the next step to win a championship and win a Superbowl it wasn't their year.

 

It sucks.

 

We've all here spent countless hours on TSW and are frustrated. However, saying this team can only follow a specific path to glory is asinine. The team has talent and with some upgrades here and there (OL, WR, etc) will be in the thick of things for years to come.

 

How many people have said 1 B4 I die!? Unless your 70+ years old what kind of sick joke is that. I want to see 50+ before I die and hope I live past 80 years old so I can see them all! 

 

So many Bills fans are so scared to let go of the past and it's infuriating.  If you can't let go of the past how can you grasp

 the future.

 

The Bills didn't live up to expectations this year, how many of you can say the same. 

😉

Hey buddy, I lived up to expectations, I’m on my sailboat in the Bahamas 🇧🇸as I planned to be 😁👍

[StHustle]

4 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Depends on how you look at things, your expectations, and your end goal.

 

This regime as you have stated has made 6 straight playoff appearances. No small feat and a nice accomplishment. 

 

However, what has the team accomplished in the playoffs? Have they even advanced to a AFC conference game? Answer is no. What makes you think they can get over the hump? 

 

If you are happy with consistent playoff appearances with constant disappointment then I get it. That's exactly what this team has done. 

 

You can have hope and be optimistic about the future. I get that. Hope and optimism are great but it's no indication of future results. All we have is past results. Thus far, the Bills team has failed to meet its goals. The last two playoff appearances have been extremely disappointing. Imho, the cracks are beginning to show. Those cracks make it much more difficult to be optimistic. 

Ummmm…we certainly did make it to the AFC Championship game…but anyways you definitely don’t go through a 17 year playoff drought…have this level of consistent success…then fire the head coach and GM cause they haven’t won you a Super Bowl yet. Without them we most likely don’t have Josh or even a legit shot at a title like we do now. How silly it is yo even consider major changes in leadership. We just need to keep tweaking away.

[RevWarRifleman]

On 2/3/2023 at 8:34 PM, Marcus Aurelius said:

Hey pal, I'm 73 and I have yet to see the Bills win the Super Bowl. It's not a "sick joke" to me.

Amen to that Marcus. I'm 74 and I feel that this is our best shot for a SB win with this team/coaching and such. Many of us Boomers

know that this is the time. This is the best Bills team as well as coaching in years.  Lets get it done.        That's my 2 cents.

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, StHustle said:

Ummmm…we certainly did make it to the AFC Championship game…but anyways you definitely don’t go through a 17 year playoff drought…have this level of consistent success…then fire the head coach and GM cause they haven’t won you a Super Bowl yet. Without them we most likely don’t have Josh or even a legit shot at a title like we do now. How silly it is yo even consider major changes in leadership. We just need to keep tweaking away.

I am greatful of the teams playoff appearances, winning the AFC East titles, and their regular season success. No doubt the teams success is great compared to the Bills previous losing ways. Don't you crave more? A Super Bowl appearance and a Lombardi Trophy?

 

I'm not advocating a total blow up. Everyone's idea of tweeking I suspect is relative and different. My main issue is that Beane went to the podium and basically stated they are going to run it back. No major coaching changes, hope for healthy players, hope for player development, hope for a few good moves in FA or the draft. Sell that dream...

 

A Fraizer's lead defense is incapable of stopping or containing the big boys in the playoffs. It's really just that simple. The sample size is there. Do you really think he's going to tweek the defense? The old saying is you can't teach an old dog new tricks. Fraizer really needs to go. Sometimes change is a positive thing. 

 

Dorsey was taken to the woodshed in the playoffs. His offense and his schemes were pretty bad. Clearly, his "learning on the job" hurt the Bills chances this year. (A Daboll lead Bills O might have very well have gotten the Bills over the top.) The real reason the offense statistically did well was because of Allen despite Dorsey's ineptitude. How much better is he going to get? Are you confident in running it back with him? 

 

I absolutely love Coach McD character and his ability to bond the team. However, the past two years I believe he's lost quite a lot in the football Xs and Os. Nevertheless, he's a very good coach and a better replacement will be a daunting task. I myself would prefer an offensive minded coach who could take Allen to another level. I don't see McD as that guy. He just doesn't seem to have that killer mentality. The old saying nice guys finish last. Coach McD priorities family, God, community, and being a great person over football. He's absolutely correct here. That doesn't sound like the Patriot way. Just throwing it out there for thought. 

 

Running it back with a few tweeks likely doesn't get it done. Cinci is by far better than Buffalo. KC is better coached so they are better too. Miami, LA, Jags, and Jets may very well surpass the Bills. 

 

If you are satisfied with making playoffs appearences and not making Super Bowl appearances this regime will excell. Until they can get over the hump I will remain skeptical. Next season just seems like groundhog day...

 

With that, I'm done expressing this viewpoint. I don't want to be a burden or a pain. Thanks for listening. 

Edited February 6, 2023 by newcam2012

[Hermes]

55 minutes ago, StHustle said:

Ummmm…we certainly did make it to the AFC Championship game…but anyways you definitely don’t go through a 17 year playoff drought…have this level of consistent success…then fire the head coach and GM cause they haven’t won you a Super Bowl yet. Without them we most likely don’t have Josh or even a legit shot at a title like we do now. How silly it is yo even consider major changes in leadership. We just need to keep tweaking away.

 

When it comes to the top teams I think those tweaks and smaller adjustments are where you see the difference.  You don't tear down a house because of a leaky roof, you fix the roof and go from there. The Bills have the foundation to be a great to for a long time now and they have to find out where they can make a series of incremental changes that lead to better results. Whether that be playcalling, specific players, techniques, cleats and equipment, or any other of the litany of factors that affect the team on gameday.

[Hermes]

12 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I am greatful of the teams playoff appearances, winning the AFC East titles, and their regular season success. No doubt the teams success is great compared to the Bills previous losing ways. Don't you crave more? A Super appearance and a Lombardi Trophy.

 

I'm not advocating a total blow up. Everyone's idea of tweaking I suspect is relative and different. My main issue is that Beane went to the podium and basically stated they are going to run it back. No major coaching changes, hope for healthy players, hope for player development, hope for a few good moves in FA or the draft. Sell that dream...

 

A Fraizer's lead defense is incapable of stopping or containing the big boys in the playoffs. It's really just that simple. The sample size is there. Do you really think he's going to tweek the defense? The old saying is you can't teach and old dog new tricks. Fraizer really needs to go. Sometimes change us a positive thing. 

 

Dorsey was taken to the woodshed in the playoffs. His offense and his schemes were pretty bad. Clearly, his "learning on the job" hurt the Bills chances this year. (A Daboll lead Bills O might have very well have gotten the Bills over the top.) The real reason the offense statistically did well was because of Allen despite Dorsey's ineptitude. How much better is he going to get? Are you confident in running it back with him? 

 

I absolutely love Coach McD character and his ability to bond the team. However, the past two years I believe he's lost quite a lot in the football Xs and Os. Nevertheless, he's a very good coach and a better replacement will be a daunting task. I myself would prefer an offensive minded coach who could take Allen to another level. I don't see McD as that guy. He just doesn't seem to have that killer mentality. The old saying nice guys finish last. Coach McD priorities family, God, community, and being a great person over football. He's absolutely correct here. That doesn't sound like the Patriot way. Just throwing it out there for thought. 

 

Running it back with a few tweeks likely doesn't get it done. Cinci is by far better than Buffalo. KC is better coached so they are better too. Miami, LA, Jags, and Jets may very well surpass the Bills. 

 

If you are satisfied with making playoffs appearences and not making Super Bowl appearances this regime will excell. Until they can get over the hump I will remain skeptical. Next season just seems like groundhog day...

 

With that, I'm done expressing this viewpoint. I don't want to be a burden or a pain. Thanks for listening. 

 

You certainly make a number of great points and with the current roster, maybe a change of such great magnitude (i.e. replacing McDermott) would indeed be the catalyst for the team to get over the hump.  I support replacing Frazier with a more aggressive DC and at this point would stand pat with Dorsey and McD.  In the regular season he seems to have that killer instinct but when the playoffs role around he goes into a more conservative approach and that hurts the team. Trying to play like that against top tier teams and bait them into mistakes isn't viable. You have to put pressure on the other team and force the issue rather than waiting on them to screw up.

 

This season I think was a bit anomalous with the team dealing with the Hamlin situation and the injuries to Hyde and Miller. A better DC can probably withstand the injuries through scheme and playcalling adjustments especially since they happened well before the team folded against the Bengals. 

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, Hermes said:

 

You certainly make a number of great points and with the current roster, maybe a change of such great magnitude (i.e. replacing McDermott) would indeed be the catalyst for the team to get over the hump.  I support replacing Frazier with a more aggressive DC and at this point would stand pat with Dorsey and McD.  In the regular season he seems to have that killer instinct but when the playoffs role around he goes into a more conservative approach and that hurts the team. Trying to play like that against top tier teams and bait them into mistakes isn't viable. You have to put pressure on the other team and force the issue rather than waiting on them to screw up.

 

This season I think was a bit anomalous with the team dealing with the Hamlin situation and the injuries to Hyde and Miller. A better DC can probably withstand the injuries through scheme and playcalling adjustments especially since they happened well before the team folded against the Bengals. 

Very solid post. 👍

[Marcus Aurelius]

3 hours ago, RevWarRifleman said:

Amen to that Marcus. I'm 74 and I feel that this is our best shot for a SB win with this team/coaching and such. Many of us Boomers

know that this is the time. This is the best Bills team as well as coaching in years.  Lets get it done.        That's my 2 cents.

Rev,

We got to see 2 AFL Championships that counts for something I guess.

[RevWarRifleman]

6 minutes ago, Marcus Aurelius said:

Rev,

We got to see 2 AFL Championships that counts for something I guess.

We sure did, and they were great. Now it's time to get that Super Bowl  W.          Go Bills!

[Thrivefourfive]

I don’t get the point of the topic. Comparing the 90s Bills is something I’d expect ALL Bills fans to do. 
 

My comparison isn’t so much with what’s on the field or how the teams were built — it’s impossible to compare these things in their entirety. But comparing Allen and Kelly, go for for it. Of course that makes sense to do.

 

I look for the progression of how each era got to where they got. It was just too easy to compare the 1988 Bills to the 2020 Bills. Both teams surprised with their regular season win-loss record, made it to the AFCCG, and got dominated by a much better team. Then the next year, for both eras, they under achieved. The 1989 Bills could’ve been a team of destiny sans Ronnie Harmon. All the talent was there. Same with the 2021 Bills and 13 seconds. 
 

But 2022 is obviously where things don’t compare. The 1990 squad is the greatest in team history (but I’d love to hear if anyone thinks the 64-65 teams were better), and 2022 will always be a disappointment for not living up to the Super Bowl Champion pre-season expectations. The 1990 Bills had those expectations for seven days prior to SBXXV. But this team had to carry that load all year long, until the cracks were evident and those paying attention knew it wasn’t going to happen — nobody serious thought they’d beat the Bengals the way things were going for them. 
 

Hating on the Old Bills vs New Bills. I hate that!

[boater]

On 2/4/2023 at 7:59 AM, Tommy Shelby said:

More likely, a Generation-Z yells at cloud.

 

Who is OP to tell people how to live their fanhood?

[Hermes]

1 hour ago, Thrivefourfive said:

I don’t get the point of the topic. Comparing the 90s Bills is something I’d expect ALL Bills fans to do. 
 

My comparison isn’t so much with what’s on the field or how the teams were built — it’s impossible to compare these things in their entirety. But comparing Allen and Kelly, go for for it. Of course that makes sense to do.

 

I look for the progression of how each era got to where they got. It was just too easy to compare the 1988 Bills to the 2020 Bills. Both teams surprised with their regular season win-loss record, made it to the AFCCG, and got dominated by a much better team. Then the next year, for both eras, they under achieved. The 1989 Bills could’ve been a team of destiny sans Ronnie Harmon. All the talent was there. Same with the 2021 Bills and 13 seconds. 
 

But 2022 is obviously where things don’t compare. The 1990 squad is the greatest in team history (but I’d love to hear if anyone thinks the 64-65 teams were better), and 2022 will always be a disappointment for not living up to the Super Bowl Champion pre-season expectations. The 1990 Bills had those expectations for seven days prior to SBXXV. But this team had to carry that load all year long, until the cracks were evident and those paying attention knew it wasn’t going to happen — nobody serious thought they’d beat the Bengals the way things were going for them. 
 

Hating on the Old Bills vs New Bills. I hate that!

 

It's the perception that so many fans hold/held that this year's team was destined for a SB and that they were going to make right the SB losses in the past based off of the comparisons to those teams.

 

The changes in the league that have happened since then are staggering. Not to mention the landscape of what teams are good and how the dynamics between the top teams vary. KC and the Bengals could very well be the next dynasties in the AFC and the Bills might just never be able to overtake them. Or the Bills could fire back and get red hot after a down year and become the favorites again, nobody knows what the future holds (besides the NFL script writers).

 

There's also a contingent of fans whole are consistently down on the team since they saw 17 years of futility and have decided to embed an aura of failure around anything surrounding the Bills.  These are the ones who'll say the game is over at halftime when the Bills aren't winning by 10+ because the other team will come back and it's the "Billsy" thing to do. Allen throws a pick and Singletary fumbles in the 1st quarter and there's no hope the Bills can pull it off. 

 

I'm happy that the Bills organization has positioned itself to be one of the top teams in the NFL. I'm disappointed in the outcome of the season, that doesn't mean the team is cursed or there's no hope to ever win a SB. For all we know the team could go to 10 of the next 15 and win 5 of them. 

 

 

[KeLLy1278]

Let me know when the current group of players and coaches make it to a Super Bowl.. since this year, they will be watching it like the rest of us.   The late 80s and 90s Bills had heart.  The current team is just bizarre.  Some talent is present but thus far it hasn’t done much.  I’m one of those fans who doesn’t care too much about the reg season.  Stats??  Whatever.  Just make it into the playoffs.  That’s where sports legends are made.  
 

Also, Josh Allen is no Pat Mahomes.  So far MAHONEY has quite a better resume so let’s not even go there.  I’ve also seen some Josh Allen is the GOAT posts.. lol.  Say what???

[Hermes]

4 hours ago, KeLLy1278 said:

Let me know when the current group of players and coaches make it to a Super Bowl.. since this year, they will be watching it like the rest of us.   The late 80s and 90s Bills had heart.  The current team is just bizarre.  Some talent is present but thus far it hasn’t done much.  I’m one of those fans who doesn’t care too much about the reg season.  Stats??  Whatever.  Just make it into the playoffs.  That’s where sports legends are made.  
 

Also, Josh Allen is no Pat Mahomes.  So far MAHONEY has quite a better resume so let’s not even go there.  I’ve also seen some Josh Allen is the GOAT posts.. lol.  Say what???

 

Didn't you hear!?! After the first 4 weeks of the season this Bills team established itself as one of the greatest teams of all time. The metrics were off the charts!!! 

[nucci]

On 2/3/2023 at 8:54 PM, TheyCallMeAndy said:

31 teams will fail this year. If a fans view of this team is just of if they win a SB, they are missing something special. 
 

This team is really good, we’ve been waiting for this for a while. There is so much that goes into winning a Championship, and luck is one of the key components. 

what's special about falling short every year? I didn't feel anything special this season

[Thrivefourfive]

18 hours ago, Hermes said:

 

It's the perception that so many fans hold/held that this year's team was destined for a SB and that they were going to make right the SB losses in the past based off of the comparisons to those teams.

 

The changes in the league that have happened since then are staggering. Not to mention the landscape of what teams are good and how the dynamics between the top teams vary. KC and the Bengals could very well be the next dynasties in the AFC and the Bills might just never be able to overtake them. Or the Bills could fire back and get red hot after a down year and become the favorites again, nobody knows what the future holds (besides the NFL script writers).

 

There's also a contingent of fans whole are consistently down on the team since they saw 17 years of futility and have decided to embed an aura of failure around anything surrounding the Bills.  These are the ones who'll say the game is over at halftime when the Bills aren't winning by 10+ because the other team will come back and it's the "Billsy" thing to do. Allen throws a pick and Singletary fumbles in the 1st quarter and there's no hope the Bills can pull it off. 

 

I'm happy that the Bills organization has positioned itself to be one of the top teams in the NFL. I'm disappointed in the outcome of the season, that doesn't mean the team is cursed or there's no hope to ever win a SB. For all we know the team could go to 10 of the next 15 and win 5 of them. 

 

 

One thing there’s no blueprint for is Winning It. So not only are fans disappointed that this year’s team didn’t bring home glory for past failures, it’s one more year of the unknown path to a championship. When/if it ever happens, it will be more than just the SB game ecstasy. It will be the blueprint of how it was accomplished over the course of many many months/years. And more for us to compare to going forward! Ha

[Hermes]

1 hour ago, Thrivefourfive said:

One thing there’s no blueprint for is Winning It. So not only are fans disappointed that this year’s team didn’t bring home glory for past failures, it’s one more year of the unknown path to a championship. When/if it ever happens, it will be more than just the SB game ecstasy. It will be the blueprint of how it was accomplished over the course of many many months/years. And more for us to compare to going forward!

 

 

I love it!

 

Honestly that's the point! There's no single cut and dry formula for a team to win the Superbowl. Should the Giants have beat the undefeated Patriots? What about the Patriots beating the Rams? There's so much more that goes into winning the whole thing than one single person or thing. 

 

In the ever changing league that is the NFL the formula changes year to year. The Superbowl is typically won by the team who gets hot at the right time. Even with an elite QB (Mahomes and Brady) so much of it is dependent on factors outside of their control. Whether that be defense, offensive playmakers, O-Line, or D-line there is so much that factors into a Superbowl victory.