PSA: This is Sean McDermott's defense, not Leslie Frazier's

[BillsFan692]

9 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Okay I'm a Bills fan and yes I watch a lot of football I only get wrapped up here.

 

We all saw what happened vs. Cincy and it was not pretty. 

 

The playoffs are a different beast and all year we saw the warts on the defense and yes injuries played a significant factor, but to be swiss cheese regardless of who is put out there is unacceptable. 

 

Let's not forget Cincy was missing 3 OL and did whatever they wanted.  They could have put up 40 if they needed to.

 

Bills fans know that they got lucky with Allen and he has become a QB beyond probably their expectations and they haven't done enough for him on that side of the ball, because this is essentially McD's team.

 

McD is a Defence first coach and spent the money there and constructed a defense that he and Frazier have run for years.

 

They have been terrible the last 4 playoff losses and really played what amounts to 3 decent games in the playoffs (Jax, Baltimore & NE).  

 

They have been terrible the last 3 and this is their philosophy on D.  Bend, don't break and hope for a mistake (fumble, tipped pass....).  They have allowed 29,29 & 30 First downs to opponents a ridiculously high #.

 

And no I will not forget 13 seconds, where two masterminds completely blew it.

And the question: Is the bend dont break philosophy where you give up so many first downs and keep their offense on the field for extended long drives in any way complimentary to josh Allen and our high powered offense???

 

Answer: no. Its not!

 

To be fair the philosophy clearly "works" from a statistical perspective otherwise why would our dvoa numbers be so good. It just doesnt seem to work so well against good teams and especially in the playoffs

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by BillsFan692

[NastyNateSoldiers]

19 minutes ago, WyoAZBillfan said:

See Bill B with the Pats. Reid in KC and Jimmy Johnson in the 90’s. Possibly the 80’s 49’ers and get back to the board. 

Is McD anywhere near these guys? There the exceptions not the rule. 

22 minutes ago, WyoAZBillfan said:

See Bill B with the Pats. Reid in KC and Jimmy Johnson in the 90’s. Possibly the 80’s 49’ers and get back to the board. 

Is McD anywhere near the level of these coaches? All these guys won Superbowls as OC & DCs except for Jimmy and he won titles on college level. Please let me know what if any kind of title has McD won? Btw those are the exceptions not the rule ! Don’t get it twisted… 

[Billsfan1972]

31 minutes ago, WyoAZBillfan said:

You had merit until 13 seconds. If that kick off is appropriate for the situation. KC likely don’t move into position with time left on the board. 
To say the D was terrible in last 3 playoff losses, do you also say the opponents D was terrible as well? The Bengals beat us easily, KC needed a horrible decision and a ton of luck to give them the win with the 13 seconds. AFCC the Bills weren’t even supposed to be there, kind of a wash to say the D was terrible if comparing to other games that year. 

There’s not 32 in the playoffs, that’sa flawed argument, especially when they make it past wildcard round. 

Obviously you do not know me and how much detail I went into breaking down the kick like a zapruder film, or at my house with my friends over screaming 13 seconds is plenty and kick it short, giving up most two plays one which would have had to be in a Hail Mary.

[John from Riverside]

4 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

That's it right there, some need to dream bigger.  

 

Imagine if Kurt Warner had come into the league from stocking shelves at a supermarket as he was, and had been satisfied with a backup QB job.  ... for example.  

 

Again, what's the goal, a championship, or to simply outperform the team that averaged 6.6 wins/season from our last playoff appearance to when they got here.  

 

Some people appear to be satisfied with that.  As long as we have well ranked offenses and defenses, simply make the playoffs despite never advancing to a Super Bowl, and have Allen, I guess their goals are met.  Which is fine I suppose, it's just not our goals.  

Absolutely mental
 

You were describing a needle in a haystack of needles with Kurt Warner not the norm why can’t you people get that through your heads the buying a lottery ticket doesn’t guarantee that you’re gonna win it

[Radar]

The only positive is at least now we'll not assume we have a great defense. Injuries or not we're soft defensively. Stats are stats and,yes, they look good but next season both sides of the ball will be scrutinized. Personally I'm more inclined to look at on field talent than coaching.

[QB Bills]

13 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Absolutely mental
 

You were describing a needle in a haystack of needles with Kurt Warner not the norm why can’t you people get that through your heads the buying a lottery ticket doesn’t guarantee that you’re gonna win it

Sure. And when you play the local scratch-off ticket, you might win 20 bucks the odd time. But you'll never hit the jackpot. 

[Chaos]

7 hours ago, MJS said:

That's what everyone said about Andy Reid.

Reid could not get over the hump without an elite QB. McDermott has not got over the hump with an elite QB.  

[WyoAZBillfan]

1 hour ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Is McD anywhere near these guys? There the exceptions not the rule. 

Is McD anywhere near the level of these coaches? All these guys won Superbowls as OC & DCs except for Jimmy and he won titles on college level. Please let me know what if any kind of title has McD won? Btw those are the exceptions not the rule ! Don’t get it twisted… 

Just curious, those are accepted as some of the best coaches ever. How many SB’s combined, years coaching/teams before said wins. Constant change don’t work, we’ve seen that. 
Let’s see your solutions, names that are going to get the Bills over that hump, it’s way too easy to whine, complain and just vent the same vomit repeatedly. Let’s hear those names/hiring that are going to do it. 
John Harbaugh is in my mind a great coach with a long history, and how many rings…?

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Obviously you do not know me and how much detail I went into breaking down the kick like a zapruder film, or at my house with my friends over screaming 13 seconds is plenty and kick it short, giving up most two plays one which would have had to be in a Hail Mary.

I don’t, at all! Please elaborate. That whole …paragraph makes my point. 

[nosejob]

1 hour ago, BillsFan692 said:

And the question: Is the bend dont break philosophy where you give up so many first downs and keep their offense on the field for extended long drives in any way complimentary to josh Allen and our high powered offense???

 

Answer: no. Its not!

 

To be fair the philosophy clearly "works" from a statistical perspective otherwise why would our dvoa numbers be so good. It just doesnt seem to work so well against good teams and especially in the playoffs

 

I read somewhere back during the season that we were 2nd worst in the league in terms of the time of drives we allowed opponents. Given the fact that the field is crowded in the red zone and we forunately on occasion get some good plays from our talent in that situation, this has got to change. I don't care what they do in FA and the draft, unless this Defensive and Offensive scheme changes along with the brain farts on game day, I got nothing.

 

Frazier has to go and Dorsey needs to learn he can't live vicariously through Josh and that his ass is on the line. Do you want to be a Nate Hackett?...and you haven't even measured up to him?  If I'm Mcd, I'm breathing fire. He needs to come out with a fresh sale of goods, cause I just can't buy into another year of B.S. I'm glad you're a man of faith and have instilled a culture, but now it's time light a fire.

Edited February 3, 2023 by nosejob

[MJS]

17 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Reid could not get over the hump without an elite QB. McDermott has not got over the hump with an elite QB.  

Let's try again. Let's not blow anything up.

[Chaos]

Just now, MJS said:

Let's try again. Let's not blow anything up.

In real life coaches get to the Super Bowl within a couple of years if getting an elite qb on board.  McDermott has had a long chance.  He is currently the longest tenured coach without a Super Bowl win for his team. McVay , Taylor and Siriani are examples of recent guys who have gotten to the Super Bowl with a much quicker process.  

[frostbitmic]

The Bills got rid of the Safeties coach ... All is well and the defense will perform better in next years playoffs.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Chaos said:

In real life coaches get to the Super Bowl within a couple of years if getting an elite qb on board.  McDermott has had a long chance.  He is currently the longest tenured coach without a Super Bowl win for his team. McVay , Taylor and Siriani are examples of recent guys who have gotten to the Super Bowl with a much quicker process.  

I think people like to believe the McDermott and the Bills have a monopoly on process and culture when in reality other teams' processes are point blank superior

[nosejob]

8 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

The Bills got rid of the Safeties coach ... All is well and the defense will perform better in next years playoffs.

Well Heath jumped on the grenade last year. This year someone had to take it up the pooper. In this scenario at some point crap has to roll uphill, hopefully this year( like right now) instead of next.

Edited February 3, 2023 by nosejob

[ProcessTruster]

12 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

The defense lost half of their starters, leaning far towards the best players.

 

Yet they still managed to get 4th in defensive DVOA, 2nd in points allowed and 1st in yards allowed against a tough schedule of offenses. They throttled the Chiefs early in the year when still healthy.

 

So, yeah, it's McDermott's structure and Frazier does the detail work, and that means you can't give Frazier most of the credit.

 

But far from being incompetent, both Frazier and McDermott look really good once again when you look at how well that decimated defense did. (Very well.)

 

Can't imagine Frazier will be fired, though anything is possible.

 

 

yep, play it back please.  55w 21L in 4 years just doesn't lie.....

[Goin Breakdown]

Here's my thought for what it's worth. The OP is right. He'd have to fire the next defensive coordinator too. Firing Frazier will only show the flaws in McDs defense is because of McD. 

[LeGOATski]

7 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

 

McDermott is displaying servant leadership in that instance. It is leadership 101 and fits with his Toyota management system. A servant leader always praises those below them and deflects criticism from them when it does not.

McDermott is a fine person and he has good leadership qualities.  He's just not a good enough coach to be beat the best.  Both statements can be true without any malice.

It's counterproductive in this instance. If he says it's Frazier's defense than we should acknowledge that fact through the good times and the bad times. Coordinators can't just be blameless underlings. They get paid a lot of money to run their side of the ball. Frazier runs that defense.

[Mr. WEO]

12 hours ago, MJS said:

Yeah, McDermott is so incompetent:

 

Defensive rankings:

2019: 2nd

2020: 16th

2021: 1st

2022: 2nd

 

Win Loss record:

2019: 10-6

2020: 13-3

2021: 11-6

2022: 13-3

 

Best win percentage in franchise history. 4th best win percentage in the NFL currently. 21st all time in NFL history and ahead of coaches like Mike Tomlin, Sean Payton, Sean McVay, John Harbaugh, Pete Carrol, etc. (Just needs to get his superbowl like they have)

 

He is among the league leaders in following analytics and being appropriately aggressive on offense.

 

It's just so clear that he is a high quality head coach. He needs to get over the hump in the playoffs, but if we move on from him, it will not be good. And he will get scooped up immediately to be head coach of another team. And he'll probably turn around that team too.

Wow! Matt Lafleur is the 5th best HC of all time!! Will he catch up to the greatest of all time—Guy Chamberlin—-that’s the question….

[The Red King]

I wouldn't look at PPG.  Rather points per drive.  The Bills' defense puts up great stats, but that's due to a bend but don't break defense that can't get off the field.

 

This is an extreme example but it proves my point.  If the opposition has four 10-minute drives and gets 17 points do we say the D was elite?  They only gave up 17 pts., after all.  Likely a low # of total yards too.  As a statline they look like a top D, right?  In practice we only had possession 20 out of 60 minutes.  The D will have still given up 4-5 points a drive.

 

The statline is very misleading for this type of defense.

[PBF81]

3 hours ago, MJS said:

Small sample sizes, for one. During the regular season you play your schedule, which is a mix of bad and good teams. During the playoffs you are only playing good team. But the main issue is small sample size. An average from one or two games is not sufficient to really have meaningful comparison. But I do think those teams are better than the Bills, at least on the AFC side. Who knows on the NFC side?

 

Sounds like excuse making to me.