2024 Arena Football League is potentially returning with 16 cities. Buffalo Destroyers?

[Buffalo Super Fan]

Does anyone think that the Buffalo Destroyers return when the 2024 Arena Football League starts again? The new owners of the league want to comeback with potentially 16 teams from former AFL cities. Buffalo is a former Arena Football League city. Buffalo has no MLB, no MLS, no NWSL, no USL, no WNBA , no XFL and no USFL to take fans away from a potential new Arena Football League franchise. Buffalo with just the International League Buffalo Bisons for a Arena Football League franchise to compete for fans with seems like a logical choice. I don’t see how the Arena Football League is going to want to compete with USFL, XFL, MLS and MLB in all there potential city choices?
 

Economically that would be s tough proposition for a restarted Arena Football League. 10 games 5 home and 5 away. If Buffalo Destroyers can’t sell 5 home games at let’s say $20 a game for $100 for a season ticket? Don’t tell me Buffalo is happening and on the up swing. If Buffalo gets passed over by this league too it says a lot what outsiders think of Buffalo economically if Buffalo can’t even receive a restarted Arena Football League that Buffalo Destroyers were in for five years. I had season tickets for all five years of the Buffalo Destroyers. Back then there was a lot more games so 5 games shouldn’t be a problem if this city is the sports city everyone seems to think it is. Plus downtown Buffalo will get football after all if the Buffalo Destroyers comeback home in my opinion. Go Destroyers! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Edited February 2, 2023 by Buffalo Super Fan

[SirAndrew]

It’s not just economics, it’s the size of the city as well. Buffalo isn’t one of the larger markets, and you eventually run out of people interested in these secondary leagues. There isn’t much interest anywhere in the country at this point. We’re a smaller market with an NFL franchise. How much demand for football from a lesser league does the city have? That doesn’t make us a bad sports town, it just means people moved on to hockey season. These leagues work best in markets without pro teams or larger markets. I understand your point, but I don’t think an arena football team can be used as measuring stick for Buffalo’s economy. 

[May Day 10]

You would need a willing owner.

 

I feel like pegula wouldn't be in the market for this.  They already operate a lot of teams and there are complications with the current state of that arena.  Also rumors they are looking at finding an equity investor as it is.  Not to mention Kim's health.   

 

I can't see any other of the few big money players in this town going in on this either.

 

The facility is not a nice one.  It is in need of a lot of $ in upgrades and repairs.  

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by May Day 10

[Gugny]

40 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

It’s not just economics, it’s the size of the city as well. Buffalo isn’t one of the larger markets, and you eventually run out of people interested in these secondary leagues. There isn’t much interest anywhere in the country at this point. We’re a smaller market with an NFL franchise. How much demand for football from a lesser league does the city have? That doesn’t make us a bad sports town, it just means people moved on to hockey season. These leagues work best in markets without pro teams or larger markets. I understand your point, but I don’t think an arena football team can be used as measuring stick for Buffalo’s economy. 

Buffalo is the 2nd largest city in New York State. 

[May Day 10]

I also think these leagues need to start smaller and more regional.  They always try to jump into these giant markets and act like a major pro sports league.  Start modestly and build a following and an interesting product.

 

Id so go 8 teams and play in one region.  Honestly, I think the rust belt/midwest makes a lot of sense because the lack of things to do in the winter.  Detroit, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Iowa (werent they successful?), Indianapolis, Chicago, Columbus, St Louis?

[SirAndrew]

4 hours ago, Gugny said:

Buffalo is the 2nd largest city in New York State. 

Right, but that doesn’t have much to do with a random arena football league placing a franchise in Buffalo imo. They’re looking at the entire country. These leagues tend to choose larger markets. Buffalo is the 53rd largest TV market in the US with Fort Myers/Naples soon to surpass it. Buffalo is a great sports town, but that doesn’t mean these type of leagues are coming here, and I don’t think we’re missing much. I’d rather see Sabres playoff games, and more great concerts in Buffalo. The novelty of these leagues wear off quickly, and I’m not convinced Buffalo, or anywhere can sustain them. The Bills consume most of my football energy, but I’m not going to say an arena team wouldn’t be cool either. I’d just be surprised. 

Edited February 2, 2023 by SirAndrew

[SirAndrew]

2 hours ago, May Day 10 said:

I also think these leagues need to start smaller and more regional.  They always try to jump into these giant markets and act like a major pro sports league.  Start modestly and build a following and an interesting product.

 

Id so go 8 teams and play in one region.  Honestly, I think the rust belt/midwest makes a lot of sense because the lack of things to do in the winter.  Detroit, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Iowa (werent they successful?), Indianapolis, Chicago, Columbus, St Louis?

Agree, the OP’s premise is arena football not choosing Buffalo means the economy is weak. I don’t think arena football can be used to assess economic health, negative or positive. These leagues typically go for the largest markets, with occasional outliers. The original arena league with Buffalo as an expansion team was many years ago. Leagues all seem to use a large market business model now. I suppose we’ll see. 

Edited February 2, 2023 by SirAndrew

[rm -rf /*]

I have always found indoor football to be a mess.  AFL? IFL? NAL?  They would have alot more luck consolidating IMO.

[May Day 10]

I was always a fan of the ROFL

[PromoTheRobot]

13 hours ago, Buffalo Super Fan said:

Does anyone think that the Buffalo Destroyers return when the 2024 Arena Football League starts again? The new owners of the league want to comeback with potentially 16 teams from former AFL cities. Buffalo is a former Arena Football League city. Buffalo has no MLB, no MLS, no NWSL, no USL, no WNBA , no XFL and no USFL to take fans away from a potential new Arena Football League franchise. Buffalo with just the International League Buffalo Bisons for a Arena Football League franchise to compete for fans with seems like a logical choice. I don’t see how the Arena Football League is going to want to compete with USFL, XFL, MLS and MLB in all there potential city choices?
 

Economically that would be s tough proposition for a restarted Arena Football League. 10 games 5 home and 5 away. If Buffalo Destroyers can’t sell 5 home games at let’s say $20 a game for $100 for a season ticket? Don’t tell me Buffalo is happening and on the up swing. If Buffalo gets passed over by this league too it says a lot what outsiders think of Buffalo economically if Buffalo can’t even receive a restarted Arena Football League that Buffalo Destroyers were in for five years. I had season tickets for all five years of the Buffalo Destroyers. Back then there was a lot more games so 5 games shouldn’t be a problem if this city is the sports city everyone seems to think it is. Plus downtown Buffalo will get football after all if the Buffalo Destroyers comeback home in my opinion. Go Destroyers! Let’s Go Buffalo 

 

I'd rather have a USFL/XFL spring team than an Arena franchise. That said I don't think Buffalo can handle any more sports teams. We barely support what we have.

[davefan66]

Destroyers were a blast to go to.  Had season tickets for them and had a heck of a lot of fun.

 

Don’t see why they wouldn’t do well here. Tickets would be cheap enough to broaden the at game fan base.

[Just Jack]

Syracuse had a minor arena league team, I think it was spring of 2006, did not even last the entire season.  Went through three owners in that one season, and by the end, they weren't even playing home games anymore, they were always a road team for other, better teams to play against.  

[PromoTheRobot]

I can't get into arena ball. Too much like shooting fish in a barrel. TDs come like buckets in the NBA. The sport just doesn't translate well to a hockey rink. At least with the XFL and USFL it's still four-down football and a handful of players get a shot at the NFL.

 

I could see a spring outdoor team in Buffalo. People love to tailgate. Keep ticket prices reasonable and I could see 15-20K attendance, which would be terrific for spring ball.

Edited February 6, 2023 by PromoTheRobot

[Saxum]

On 2/3/2023 at 12:20 PM, PromoTheRobot said:

I can't get into arena ball. Too much like shooting fish in a barrel.

 

That is the goal of NFL with changes making it harder to defend.

The Air Coryell offense was a factor in changing rules in NFL to add more excitement and the current changes are ways to add more excitement to NFL owners' wallets.

 

[Saxum]

 

Other than NFL I have only watched alternate football - the CFL when they temporarily expended to US and when I was working in Canada at bars.

[PromoTheRobot]

9 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

That is the goal of NFL with changes making it harder to defend.

The Air Coryell offense was a factor in changing rules in NFL to add more excitement and the current changes are ways to add more excitement to NFL owners' wallets.

 

Sure. Offense is fun. But there's a point where it gets stupid.

[BillsPride12]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Sure. Offense is fun. But there's a point where it gets stupid.

I was watching the 30 for 30 on the Baltimore Ravens last night and the whole time I was thinking about how I miss when Defense could be played like that. 

[Mike Petro]

On 2/2/2023 at 2:26 AM, Buffalo Super Fan said:

Does anyone think that the Buffalo Destroyers return when the 2024 Arena Football League starts again? The new owners of the league want to comeback with potentially 16 teams from former AFL cities. Buffalo is a former Arena Football League city. Buffalo has no MLB, no MLS, no NWSL, no USL, no WNBA , no XFL and no USFL to take fans away from a potential new Arena Football League franchise. Buffalo with just the International League Buffalo Bisons for a Arena Football League franchise to compete for fans with seems like a logical choice. I don’t see how the Arena Football League is going to want to compete with USFL, XFL, MLS and MLB in all there potential city choices?
 

Economically that would be s tough proposition for a restarted Arena Football League. 10 games 5 home and 5 away. If Buffalo Destroyers can’t sell 5 home games at let’s say $20 a game for $100 for a season ticket? Don’t tell me Buffalo is happening and on the up swing. If Buffalo gets passed over by this league too it says a lot what outsiders think of Buffalo economically if Buffalo can’t even receive a restarted Arena Football League that Buffalo Destroyers were in for five years. I had season tickets for all five years of the Buffalo Destroyers. Back then there was a lot more games so 5 games shouldn’t be a problem if this city is the sports city everyone seems to think it is. Plus downtown Buffalo will get football after all if the Buffalo Destroyers comeback home in my opinion. Go Destroyers! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Hey Buffalo Super Fan

I’m a reporter with the Buffalo News. Any interest in chatting about this subject a little further for an article I’m writing? If so, please email me at mjpetro@buffnews.com. Thanks. 
Mike Petro

[Buffalo Super Fan]

On 2/2/2023 at 12:04 PM, SirAndrew said:

Right, but that doesn’t have much to do with a random arena football league placing a franchise in Buffalo imo. They’re looking at the entire country. These leagues tend to choose larger markets. Buffalo is the 53rd largest TV market in the US with Fort Myers/Naples soon to surpass it. Buffalo is a great sports town, but that doesn’t mean these type of leagues are coming here, and I don’t think we’re missing much. I’d rather see Sabres playoff games, and more great concerts in Buffalo. The novelty of these leagues wear off quickly, and I’m not convinced Buffalo, or anywhere can sustain them. The Bills consume most of my football energy, but I’m not going to say an arena team wouldn’t be cool either. I’d just be surprised. 

The bottom line is that Key Bank Center has way less dates filled than the 1990’s early 2000’s. If Buffalo could support the Buffalo Blizzard NPSL indoor soccer for 9 years 40 games a year 20 home, 20 away and Buffalo Destroyers Arena Football for 5 years and suddenly Buffalo can’t afford to now Arena Football for 5 home games and 5 away games what does that say positive about Buffalo is on the upward swing? Again I had season tickets to all the years they were here for the Buffalo Big 4 basketball, Buffalo Bills, UB Bulls, Buffalo Stampede, Buffalo Bandits, Buffalo Destroyers and Buffalo Blizzard teams. It is a different crowds for each. Buffalo actually supports the Buffalo Sabres worse today than ever before when those teams were playing in Buffalo. So the theory less is more is debunked. Believe me I have heard it all. Key Bank Center needs to become a active arena again. PSE or who ever the new future Buffalo Sabres/Buffalo Bandits owner or owners are should be looking for more programming at Key Bank Center. Why one you aren’t renovating for just the Buffalo Sabres there a major money losing. The last time I heard the Buffalo Sabres actually turned a profit was 1977-78 season in Buffalo Memorial Auditorium when they were sharing expenses with the Buffalo Braves NBA team. The Buffalo Sabres are a major money loser. There would be no Buffalo Bandits if the Knox brothers took the attitude of this board and PSE. The Knoxes were smart they knew to get public money they needed to have more sports events.
 

Again the PSE arena losses are self inflicted. Ok less isn’t more. Any arena operator can tell you that you need to have events more than Wine tasting and NHL Draft parties. Teams like the Buffalo Destroyers and Buffalo Blizzard were good for the area it put people to work in our area. Again PSE owning teams like that you can use the combine staff that you have you have already during the Buffalo Sabres offseason. No way that arena gets renovated in the future with just the Buffalo Sabres and Buffalo Bandits. My goodness what a joke Des Moine and Fort Wayne have more events than Buffalo Key Bank Arena a complete joke. They have minor league hockey AHL, ECHL and NBA G League franchises. Again Buffalo PSE should want to be a part of one of the greatest leagues in the NBA even on the minor league NBA G League level is higher than anything Buffalo has seen since the Buffalo Braves NBA. That needed to happen years ago. Again our city has the local business to support minor league baseball Buffalo Bisons which is a lot harder to support with more games 150 75 home and 75 away. Buffalo local Big 4 basketball schools want no part of Key Bank Center renting it regularly because of the KBC high level which is high by the way.
 

PSE needs to buy a Buffalo NBA G league team because you want your arena associated with the NBA you just do. The NBA gives back to the inner city and the community. The Arena Football League turns the lights on to Key Bank Center in the summer months. Bottom line the more Buffalo teams PSE owns eventually that bum Terry Pegula will get lucky with one of the Buffalo sports teams he actually owns to actually win something championship wise. Which is good public relations for PSE bad image as owners don’t win anything. These leagues are actually realistic for Buffalo economically. Again there is no

such thing as over saturated market you want to make your city great with what you can afford. If Buffalo can’t afford the Buffalo Destroyers and NBA G League then we aren’t happening as a city as much as the Buffalo fans want to believe.
 

Again we are talking minor league pay Jack Eichel made more money in one year than what it cost to purchase, startup and pay a year salary of the entire Buffalo Destroyers and Buffalo NBA G League teams. Think about that these are good fits for Buffalo arena business. In the 1990’s Buffalo drew for Buffalo Stampede RHI roller hockey I had season tickets to that they won a Murphy Cup in there first season then problems the second year with the out of town California owners default on RHI league obligations if I recalled. Buffalo can support smaller leagues it is the exact opposite the question is with the NFL and NHL PSL’s and higher ticket prices for big time major leagues not minor professional leagues that Buffalo struggles with. Again nothing any new Buffalo team here or not is stopping the Bills and Sabres out pricing what this market wants to pay for sports entertainment. Taking these teams away or less is more isn’t saving the Bills or Sabres if they foolishly out price the Western New York market which I think is going to happen at some point. Again I think the Buffalo Sabres are most likely done in Buffalo in 10 years unless Buffalo either gets more population or Buffalo income rises for Buffalo workers. The Buffalo Bills are here for 18 more years guaranteed than a lot of maybe. Too many Buffalo Bills fans take it as a given Western New York is going to all want to hand PSE PSL’s in huge numbers. I have serious doubts about that. I have had Buffalo Bills season tickets when I was healthier. No way would I give PSL money even in a dome Downtown with 10 Buffalo Bills Super Bowls am I doing that just on principle. The right to a season ticket is your ticket it is a seat license read the back of the tickets. So no for that nonsense. Last PSE can buy Arena Football League because the NFL gave owner’s permission for that in the early 2000’s. I don’t think the NFL would allow PSE to buy a CFL, USFL or XFL team for the new Bills stadium that PSE would need NFL permission and I doubt the NFL is giving permission for another outdoor football league unfortunately. PSE can rent to a USFL, XFL or CFL team but no own one themselves I believe in my opinion. Go Destroyers! Let’s Go Buffalo 

 

 

 

[Buffalo Super Fan]

The Buffalo Bandits are leading the NLL in lacrosse attendance averaging 13,661. The Bandits are expecting 14,000 plus against the Philadelphia Wings. But some how to some Buffalo fans we are too small television market for Buffalo Destroyers Arena Football and top tier USL soccer for Buffalo? Look face it the Buffalo wealthy don’t believe in this Buffalo area like we do as Buffalo fans. Again there no reason this isn’t asking for NBA or MLB or even MLS that by the way I think Buffalo could support MLS if we are averaging 13,661 for a NLL lacrosse team.
 

The problem is very obvious our Western New York wealthy people aren’t interested. Hence why Terry Pegula a outsider from Pennsylvania owns most of our Buffalo sports teams. Again being wealthy is about giving back to the community you made it in not run to Florida and just become takers for public money for the same business that has been here for decades. The bottom line our wealthy don’t stay and look to make Buffalo and Western New York a better place like past wealthy Buffalonians. Yes it is disappointing 30 years no one wants to build a Buffalo soccer specific stadium but Rochester business people got one built while we didn’t even bother our wealthy business owners. That says it all about Buffalo we don’t try to get better just maintain.

 

Buffalo aren’t really getting a lot of private investment a lot of the usual people looking for public funds for there company then investing elsewhere Delaware North. They haven’t owned sports teams in Buffalo in 50 years. You got to go back to the 1950’s which is sad Jeremy Jacobs and his sons aren’t like past Jacobs family members that gave back to Buffalo owning something sports wise. Bob Rich retired to Florida we haven’t heard anything about that family other than taking the lucrative summer Canalside concerts away from Global out of Philadelphia only after the Rich family saw how successful that was going to be they wanted the contract from Buffalo when Global contract was up. 
 

I am saying this Buffalo area isn’t happening because public money can’t be for everything at some point private money needs to be a lot more. We get tiny grass concert grounds where we should have a soccer specific stadium in the city of Buffalo for a Buffalo professional soccer team and concerts. If Buffalo can’t afford to build a 10,000 seat soccer stadium for top level professional USL Division 2 this city isn’t happening. Oh I forgot it’s the traffic no it is the no where to tailgate ridiculous face it the elites of Western New York don’t believe in Buffalo as much as we do. Buffalo isn’t happening unfortunately sports give you an indication of how one city is really doing sadly. Look at Cincinnati in the last five years than look at Buffalo. Cincinnati MLS soccer stadium and team check. Cincinnati Bearcats move to the Power 5 Big 12 Conference next season check. Buffalo? Ah we are building a NFL football stadium in the middle of nowhere with no real business or any new sports teams too far away for UB. Lovely Buffalo isn’t happening what a joke in my opinion. Go Bandits! Let’s Go Buffalo