Looking at our options to rebuild the o-line in 2023

[GreggTX]

Orlando Brown is still available, he's only 27 and we've just cleared up more than $30 million in cap space. If we're serious about winning the SB, we need to be talking to him instead of always trying gto get by with discount O Linemen posing as starters. OB could play on either side or even at G and be a HUGE upgrade over any OL currently on our roster. Dawkins is the only quality starter we have and maybe Morse, but Mitch's performance did slip a bit last year. Perhaps if he had better talent around him he would again be an above average Center. Besides, I'm concerned for his health. Concussions can have very serious lifelong consequences. Just ask Jim McMahon.

[LyndonvilleBill]

32 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

Orlando Brown is still available, he's only 27 and we've just cleared up more than $30 million in cap space. If we're serious about winning the SB, we need to be talking to him instead of always trying gto get by with discount O Linemen posing as starters. OB could play on either side or even at G and be a HUGE upgrade over any OL currently on our roster. Dawkins is the only quality starter we have and maybe Morse, but Mitch's performance did slip a bit last year. Perhaps if he had better talent around him he would again be an above average Center. Besides, I'm concerned for his health. Concussions can have very serious lifelong consequences. Just ask Jim McMahon.

We may have cleared 30m, but, only have about 14m left. About 3.3m for draft class, leaves just over 10m to play with. Seriously doubt Brown is even a thought.

[BillsFanForever19]

43 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

Orlando Brown is still available, he's only 27 and we've just cleared up more than $30 million in cap space. If we're serious about winning the SB, we need to be talking to him instead of always trying gto get by with discount O Linemen posing as starters. OB could play on either side or even at G and be a HUGE upgrade over any OL currently on our roster. Dawkins is the only quality starter we have and maybe Morse, but Mitch's performance did slip a bit last year. Perhaps if he had better talent around him he would again be an above average Center. Besides, I'm concerned for his health. Concussions can have very serious lifelong consequences. Just ask Jim McMahon.

 

We can't afford Orlando Brown.

 

Although we saved 45.3 million on the cap, we started at 18.7 million over the cap according to Spotrac.

 

And then we agreed to terms with Connor McGovern, re-signed Sam Martin, Tyrel Dodson, Ike Boettger, Tyler Matakevitch, Cam Lewis, and tendered Dane Jackson.

We're sitting at roughly 15-17 million under the cap right now. Orlando Brown's predicted value is 22.4 million annually. Which is pretty on par since Mike McGlinchey just signed just signed for 17.5 annually.

 

We have many holes still to fill having 24 FA's that either need re-signing or replacing. Not to mention needing space to sign our draft picks. The 15-17 we have probably won't be enough to even cover that. We absolutely couldn't put it all into one player.

 

Even if we COULD afford Orlando Brown - him playing Guard is a pipe dream. He's one of the top (maybe the top) Left Tackle's in football. He's not going to a team to play Guard and he's not going to be paid what he commands to play Guard. Not to mention, we're not going to pay Dion Dawkins what we're paying Dion Dawkins to play Right Tackle.

 

Long story short, Orlando Brown isn't even a thought.

Edited March 15, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[John from Riverside]

On 3/13/2023 at 4:46 PM, Einstein said:

Just saw that Ben Powers signed in Denver for only $12M per year. That sucks so much. He is a great linemen and getting better. Would have loved to have him here.

Stop bring so much about the name on the back of the jersey
 

The attributes of the player are much more important

 

We’re not making big splash is this year

 

Help for the line should be coming through the draft anyway

[Einstein]

On 2/1/2023 at 6:34 PM, Einstein said:

In my opinion, we missed a prime opportunity to rebuild the o-line the last two off-seasons. I did a bit of thinking about what we could have done last offseason and that's the first part of the post, but then below that I go over what options are available this offseason.

 

O-line we could have had maybe

 

LT- Dion Dawkins

LG- Brandon Scherff or Ryan Bates (I prefer Bates)

C- Creed Humphrey

RG- James Daniels

RT- L'aell Collins

 

Collins signed a 3 year, $21M contract with the Bengals last off-season. 

Daniels signed a 3 year, $26.5M contract with the Steelers last off-season.

Scherff signed a 3 year, $49.5M contract with the Ravens last off-season. 

Creed Humphrey is on a rookie 4 year, $5.5M contract with the Chiefs.

 

All of these players COMBINED were signed/drafted for LESS than the Bills gave Von Miller (in both total money and guaranteed money). Would you trade Von for a brand new o-line? I like Von, but I think I would do that trade. In addition to this, we would have offset the $19.5M given to Morse last year (on a 2 year deal), and $6.5M we gave to Saffold to be a turnstile this year. I guess you could say that we dont know if some of these players would have wanted to come to Buffalo, but I think the days of players spurning Buffalo just because are over.

 

Looking ahead - Here are the linemen due to be free agents this offseason:

 

Quick Note: All estimated market values are from SPOTRAC.

 

LT Orlando Brown - Franchised by the Chiefs this season, he hasn't played worth the money he's been paid and many people think the Chiefs don't re-sign him. His estimated market value is $22M per season. Too expensive for the Bills

 

LG Ben Powers - Did plenty of run blocking in Baltimore's run heavy offense, but also excelled in pass blocking in 2022. In fact, he was PFF's highest graded pass-blocking guard and ranked 10th in ESPN's pass block win rate and 2nd in run block win rate. Spotrac doesnt list an estimated market value. At only 26 years old, this is the type of player you would love to throw money at. Problem is, we don't have any. This is a dream signing for me - sigh. 

 

RT Isaiah Wynn - Patriots 1st round pick in 2018 that was a LT but was demoted to RT. Finished the season on IR and has struggled to stay healthy in his short career. I have read that he may have to take a "prove it" deal, but Spotrac disputes that by having him estimated at a 5 year, $77M contract ($15M per year). His name was floated around as a possible trade deadline move in November.

 

G Isaac Seumalo - A lisfranc injury ended his 2021 and some people thought he might be a post June 1 cut, but he has had a really solid 2022 season. Philly papers say he is the most underrated player on a great Philly o-line and is the glue of the line. He is 29 years old and his estimated market value is $12M per season. Can't imagine why he would leave Philly or Philly would let him walk after the season they and he just had but Super Bowl teams typically have to make hard choices.

 

RT George Fant - His estimated market value is $3M per season. He was a fringe starter in 2020 that become a breakout player in 2021 and then went downhill in 2022. He had knee surgery before the season and went on IR twice during the season. He can play both RT and LT and his estimated market value is $3.3M per season. 

 

C Connor McGovern - Didn't miss a snap all season, but is pretty average. Remember when Milano wrecked Mike White and broke his ribs? That was on McGovern. He doesn't handle the blitz well from what I've read. His estimated market value is $12.5M per season. 

 

C Jason Kelce - He is an All-Pro that is about to play in his 2nd Super Bowl in 5 years. But he's also 35 years old, has mentioned in the past how his body is "falling apart", and has publicly pondered retirement. His estimated market value is $11.9M per season and if he comes back I doubt its for anyone but the Eagles.

 

G Justin Pugh - Another player pondering retirement, and he missed most of the season due to an ACL injury. His estimated market value is $5.5M per season if he decides to play again.

 

RT Mike McGlinchey - He is huge like Spencer Brown (6ft,8 ) and his 71.5 PFF grade is better than all the Bills current o-linemen except Dawkins. He is a dominant run blocker but can struggle in pass protection. The 49ers have been grooming his replacement (Colton McKivitz) and conventional wisdom says they let McGlinchey walk. His estimated market value is $10.7M per season.

 

G Wes Schweitzer - His estimated market value is $13.8M per season but I think that's mainly because he is a versatile linemen that can switch from G to C and back effortlessly. Aside from that, he is the definition of "solid", not "great". From everything i've read he is an up and down player, going to be expensive, and I would be shocked if Buffalo looks at him.

 

G Trai Turner - This screams Beane signing. Former Carolina Panther with an estimated market value of $2.6M. He is a former 5 time pro-bowler that is past his NFL expiration date but was better Saffold this year (like, 10 points better, if you believe PFF). 

 

C Garrett Bradbury - Contract year guy. Last season, Bradbury was ranked by 39th out of 41 centers by PFF. He graded out as the third-worst pass-blocking center and was ranked 21st in run blocking. This year (contract year), he was 12th overall, 9th in run blocking, but still ranked 23rd out of 31 centers who played nearly 600 snaps. 

 

C Bradley Bozeman - He signed with Carolina as a backup on a cheap one year deal and parlayed the opportunity into a solid year where he broke into a starting role. He is projected to get a 3 year, $36M contract.

 

RT Kaleb McGary - Another contract year phenom, McGary had his 5th year option declined by the Falcons before breaking out this year. He is estimated to receive $17M per season so he's not coming to Buffalo.

 

RT Dalton Risner - I have read some not so pretty things about Risner. Everything from "slow feet" to "cant sustain blocks". He did win the Darrent Williams Good Guy award though, which probably gives McD some little-blue-pill-like excitement.  The Broncos didnt pick up his 5th year option and it looks like they may let him test free agency. His estimated market value is $9.5M per year.

 

RG Nate Davis - Just had the best season of his career, where he improved his PFF grades by almost 15 points. I'm always wary of contract year performances but this seems like another Beane'ish type move. His estimated market value is $7.4M per year with is only $1M less than Beane paid Saffold. Titans bloggers say he is a "must resign" for Tennessee, so its possible we never get the chance at him.

 

Opinion: Personally, I don't think the Bills should have ever moved Bates from LG to RG.  They did it to put Saffold at LG, but Bates was in the zone at LG at the end of the 2021 season and in the playoffs. n my opinion, I think best case scenario for the line in 2023 is:

 

LT- Dion Dawkins

LG- Ryan Bates

C- Mitch Morse

RG- Trai Turner

RT - Mike McGlinchey

 

I say best case scenario because it would require some restructuring and moving money around to sign McGlinchey. I also say best case scenario because I don't think the Bills are ready to give up on Spencer Brown, so it probably won't happen for that reason either. But even as he gets better,  I just don't ever see Spencer having the agility or speed to handle fast edge rushers. McGlinchey right now is what the Bills hope Spencer Brown develops into. 

 

Ok, tell me how I'm wrong about everything  

 

 

@LabattBlue this thread may interest you, considering your current topic of Von Miller vs OL cap dollars.