Looking at our options to rebuild the o-line in 2023

[Motor26]

55 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

Roger that.

Yeah, it is. Still not sure if he falls to us.

 

Torrence isn't a scheme fit, doesn't project to be a great pass blocker, and the Bills sure like to pass. I also prefer to use 1st round picks on premium positions. Rather they go Cody Mauch if they go 1st round OL. 

[Einstein]

5 minutes ago, Motor26 said:

 

Torrence isn't a scheme fit, doesn't project to be a great pass blocker, and the Bills sure like to pass. I also prefer to use 1st round picks on premium positions. Rather they go Cody Mauch if they go 1st round OL. 

 

I think Mauch is projected 2nd round.

[Billz4ever]

21 minutes ago, Motor26 said:

 

Torrence isn't a scheme fit, doesn't project to be a great pass blocker, and the Bills sure like to pass. I also prefer to use 1st round picks on premium positions. Rather they go Cody Mauch if they go 1st round OL. 

I'd rather see a WR in the 1st to be honest but if all the first-round WR projections are gone, it might be an option for us to try and trade out of the first round and pick up an additional pick or two.  I'd rather do that than have them reach on a pick for no reason.  Lots of O-Line talent to be had beyond the first round. 

Edited February 2, 2023 by Billz4ever

[Pirate Angel]

Should be able to get decent interior lineman with our first 2 picks. They'll sign someone cheap to compete with Spencer Brown, Morse most likely will be a cap casualty. Hopefully they can find a stud in the draft. 

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

Yes but I personally dont want anything to do with him. 

You're right, didn't see his 58 rating.  Makes sense why you didn't include him. 

[FeelingOnYouboty]

1. John Michael Schmitz-C Minnesota 6’4 320

 

3. Cooper Beebee-G Kansas State 6’3 320

 

Sign Evan Brown-G Lions

Sign Taylor Lewan-T Titans

 

4 new starters on our OL. That immediately turns us into a top OL unit in one off-season.

Our backups would be Doyle, Boetteger, Bates and Brown.

 

The Chiefs upgraded their OL in one offseason by trading for Orlando Brown-T signing Joe Thuney-G and Andrew Wylie-T and drafting Creed Humphrey-C and Trey Smith-G.

 

They did that in one off-season after losing the Super Bowl. There’s no excuse for us to be sticking with the Ryan Bates and Spencer Browns of the world let alone Roger Saffold.

[BADOLBILZ]

50 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I think Mauch is projected 2nd round.

 

 

Former Bills OL coach Karl Mauck projected as a first round pick for a Gilligans Island re-boot.

[GreggTX]

So you're saying there's no way we can afford to improve the 5th worst OL in the NFL? Then why even talk about it? Perhaps we should trade off an underperformer or 3 and use the money on the OL. Maybe we trade up for a top tier OT candidate. I've been shouting about this awful OL for years while others have been saying this guy is "good enough" or "I'm not worried about this guy. He'll be fine" and I'm tired of hearing it. 

Dawkins is the ONLY good OL on our roster and he's far from elite. Look at the final 4 teams. They all have made big upgrades up front in recent years. The Chiefs let Hill walk rather than decimate their OL and where are they now? No more excuses! No more good enough! I'm sick of hearing it. We will never win a SB with such a lame group of OL. Let some guys walk if you have to. Trade for draft picks if you have to. Just find a way. Maybe ask the league's #1 turnover machine to take a pay cut. Whatever. Difficult choices must be made. Do McDermott and Beane have the mettle to do it? Maybe do a better job of scouting talent than drafting the next Cody Ford. Ok, I'll stop ranting now.

 

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I know Boogie Basham was a bad pick but the obsession with Creed Humphrey on this board is approaching the obsession with runnin' bax.

 

Center is the easiest position to fill on the line.........there is a good chance Creed Humphrey will price himself out of KC with his play.........just like Rodney Hudson and Mitch Morse before him.    

 

And the current Bills center is actually above average.

[PatsFanNH]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

In my opinion, we missed a prime opportunity to rebuild the o-line the last two off-seasons. I did a bit of thinking about what we could have done last offseason and that's the first part of the post, but then below that I go over what options are available this offseason.

 

O-line we could have had maybe

 

LT- Dion Dawkins

LG- Brandon Scherff or Ryan Bates (I prefer Bates)

C- Creed Humphrey

RG- James Daniels

RT- L'aell Collins

 

Collins signed a 3 year, $21M contract with the Bengals last off-season. 

Daniels signed a 3 year, $26.5M contract with the Steelers last off-season.

Scherff signed a 3 year, $49.5M contract with the Ravens last off-season. 

Creed Humphrey is on a rookie 4 year, $5.5M contract with the Chiefs.

 

All of these players COMBINED were signed/drafted for LESS than the Bills gave Von Miller (in both total money and guaranteed money). Would you trade Von for a brand new o-line? I like Von, but I think I would do that trade. In addition to this, we would have offset the $19.5M given to Morse last year (on a 2 year deal), and $6.5M we gave to Saffold to be a turnstile this year. I guess you could say that we dont know if some of these players would have wanted to come to Buffalo, but I think the days of players spurning Buffalo just because are over.

 

Looking ahead - Here are the linemen due to be free agents this offseason:

 

Quick Note: All estimated market values are from SPOTRAC.

 

LT Orlando Brown - Franchised by the Chiefs this season, he hasn't played worth the money he's been paid and many people think the Chiefs don't re-sign him. His estimated market value is $22M per season. Too expensive for the Bills

 

LG Ben Powers - Did plenty of run blocking in Baltimore's run heavy offense, but also excelled in pass blocking in 2022. In fact, he was PFF's highest graded pass-blocking guard and ranked 10th in ESPN's pass block win rate and 2nd in run block win rate. Spotrac doesnt list an estimated market value. At only 26 years old, this is the type of player you would love to throw money at. Problem is, we don't have any. This is a dream signing for me - sigh. 

 

RT Isaiah Wynn - Patriots 1st round pick in 2018 that was a LT but was demoted to RT. Finished the season on IR and has struggled to stay healthy in his short career. I have read that he may have to take a "prove it" deal, but Spotrac disputes that by having him estimated at a 5 year, $77M contract ($15M per year). His name was floated around as a possible trade deadline move in November.

 

G Isaac Seumalo - A lisfranc injury ended his 2021 and some people thought he might be a post June 1 cut, but he has had a really solid 2022 season. Philly papers say he is the most underrated player on a great Philly o-line and is the glue of the line. He is 29 years old and his estimated market value is $12M per season. Can't imagine why he would leave Philly or Philly would let him walk after the season they and he just had but Super Bowl teams typically have to make hard choices.

 

RT George Fant - His estimated market value is $3M per season. He was a fringe starter in 2020 that become a breakout player in 2021 and then went downhill in 2022. He had knee surgery before the season and went on IR twice during the season. He can play both RT and LT and his estimated market value is $3.3M per season. 

 

C Connor McGovern - Didn't miss a snap all season, but is pretty average. Remember when Milano wrecked Mike White and broke his ribs? That was on McGovern. He doesn't handle the blitz well from what I've read. His estimated market value is $12.5M per season. 

 

C Jason Kelce - He is an All-Pro that is about to play in his 2nd Super Bowl in 5 years. But he's also 35 years old, has mentioned in the past how his body is "falling apart", and has publicly pondered retirement. His estimated market value is $11.9M per season and if he comes back I doubt its for anyone but the Eagles.

 

G Justin Pugh - Another player pondering retirement, and he missed most of the season due to an ACL injury. His estimated market value is $5.5M per season if he decides to play again.

 

RT Mike McGlinchey - He is huge like Spencer Brown (6ft,8 ) and his 71.5 PFF grade is better than all the Bills current o-linemen except Dawkins. He is a dominant run blocker but can struggle in pass protection. The 49ers have been grooming his replacement (Colton McKivitz) and conventional wisdom says they let McGlinchey walk. His estimated market value is $10.7M per season.

 

G Wes Schweitzer - His estimated market value is $13.8M per season but I think that's mainly because he is a versatile linemen that can switch from G to C and back effortlessly. Aside from that, he is the definition of "solid", not "great". From everything i've read he is an up and down player, going to be expensive, and I would be shocked if Buffalo looks at him.

 

G Trai Turner - This screams Beane signing. Former Carolina Panther with an estimated market value of $2.6M. He is a former 5 time pro-bowler that is past his NFL expiration date but was better Saffold this year (like, 10 points better, if you believe PFF). 

 

C Garrett Bradbury - Contract year guy. Last season, Bradbury was ranked by 39th out of 41 centers by PFF. He graded out as the third-worst pass-blocking center and was ranked 21st in run blocking. This year (contract year), he was 12th overall, 9th in run blocking, but still ranked 23rd out of 31 centers who played nearly 600 snaps. 

 

C Bradley Bozeman - He signed with Carolina as a backup on a cheap one year deal and parlayed the opportunity into a solid year where he broke into a starting role. He is projected to get a 3 year, $36M contract.

 

RT Kaleb McGary - Another contract year phenom, McGary had his 5th year option declined by the Falcons before breaking out this year. He is estimated to receive $17M per season so he's not coming to Buffalo.

 

RT Dalton Risner - I have read some not so pretty things about Risner. Everything from "slow feet" to "cant sustain blocks". He did win the Darrent Williams Good Guy award though, which probably gives McD some little-blue-pill-like excitement.  The Broncos didnt pick up his 5th year option and it looks like they may let him test free agency. His estimated market value is $9.5M per year.

 

RG Nate Davis - Just had the best season of his career, where he improved his PFF grades by almost 15 points. I'm always wary of contract year performances but this seems like another Beane'ish type move. His estimated market value is $7.4M per year with is only $1M less than Beane paid Saffold. Titans bloggers say he is a "must resign" for Tennessee, so its possible we never get the chance at him.

 

Opinion: Personally, I don't think the Bills should have ever moved Bates from LG to RG.  They did it to put Saffold at LG, but Bates was in the zone at LG at the end of the 2021 season and in the playoffs. n my opinion, I think best case scenario for the line in 2023 is:

 

LT- Dion Dawkins

LG- Ryan Bates

C- Mitch Morse

RG- Trai Turner

RT - Mike McGlinchey

 

I say best case scenario because it would require some restructuring and moving money around to sign McGlinchey. I also say best case scenario because I don't think the Bills are ready to give up on Spencer Brown, so it probably won't happen for that reason either. But even as he gets better,  I just don't ever see Spencer having the agility or speed to handle fast edge rushers. McGlinchey right now is what the Bills hope Spencer Brown develops into. 

 

Ok, tell me how I'm wrong about everything  

 

Anyone who signs Wynn is getting a penalty MACHINE! Man is good for 2-3 dumb and poorly timed penalties.  That is of course the rare times he is healthy. Man is a huge BUST! 

[Simon Says]

Morse dead cap is 5 million this year,2.5 in 2024? With the concussion concerns,I dont see him as a good candidate for extension or restructure. 

Bates seems to be an adequate C backup and, yes, he did look better at LG.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Think one new starter on the inside to replace Stafford, agree not giving up on Brown who's on a cheap contract and missed entire past off season.  But could see them bringing in mid tier tackle to step in if Brown doesn't do better.  Can see them drafting an interior lineman to start in 2024 unless they decide to extend Morse (yesterdays Athletic suggested that)

 

If Morse retires then add one more player needed this year, but can see one being a rookie and one a vet.  The one wild card would be if they decided to move Dawkins inside to guard.

 

I've read many posts suggesting the Bills draft 3 or 4 lineman. IMO that's a total waste as will either result in pretty much all backups being rookies or cutting draft picks, neither which is a good idea.  To me doesn't make sense to draft more than two as draft picks need to have a "landing spot" on roster.

[BADOLBILZ]

11 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

And the current Bills center is actually above average.

 

And center might be Bates best position.

 

It's fairly common for guys who can't play tackle or guard a lick to be starting quality NFL centers.    See Jon Feliciano.

[somnus00]

2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Reinforcements are coming through the draft that’s the way we have to do it now

It seems to be a good year for interior o-line. Several good prospects expected to go in rounds 2 and 3. I'd like to use both for that and a playmaker in the 1st.

[Einstein]

2 hours ago, somnus00 said:

It seems to be a good year for interior o-line. Several good prospects expected to go in rounds 2 and 3. I'd like to use both for that and a playmaker in the 1st.

 

May depend on our definition of good. Lots of mid round prospects but not sure they’re immediate starters.

[Mark Vader]

16 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

May depend on our definition of good. Lots of mid round prospects but not sure they’re immediate starters.

Good write-up.

 

The issue on our O-Line is at Guard, not Tackle. Dawkins does a fine job, Brown is only going to be in his 3rd year and is still learning, and we still don't know what we have with Tommy Doyle.

I'm not a fan of Mike McGlinchey. There's a reason why the 49'ers will not attempt to re-sign him.

 

I like players like Seamolu, Powers & Risner. We should be able to sign one of these players.

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Must be Torrence. He's the only 1st round worthy guard i've heard about. 

 

He isn't a 1st round talent IMO. I don't think he is the best guard in the class and I am also not sure he is a fit for the Bills schematically. 

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

May depend on our definition of good. Lots of mid round prospects but not sure they’re immediate starters.

 

I disagree actually. I like this interior offensive line class. There are a lot of decent day 2 types. There isn't an outstanding guy who I'd say must go round 1 but I can see 6 or 7 of these guys sgoing day 2 and starting as rookies. 

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

And center might be Bates best position.

 

It's fairly common for guys who can't play tackle or guard a lick to be starting quality NFL centers.    See Jon Feliciano.

 

Just checking you mean "starting quality" as in "of the required standard to start"? Not as in "starting" and "quality". I know it should be obvious via the lack of punctuation but then this is TSW...

 

But yea, agreed. Feliciano's best games for the Bills came at center when Morse was out and no surprise to see him perform serviceably there for the GMen.

[John from Riverside]

Get an offensive weapon in the first round. After that, the rest of the rounds are all fair game for best available player on the  of line history has shown that you can find good solid lineman throughout the draft.
 

Just don’t wait till like the fifth round

 

If I was beane I would bring in a consultant, a proven consultant on drafting lineman just spend the extra money and get the extra eyes on it

[LyndonvilleBill]

FA will be key and Morse decision (I think he stays for at least one more year).

 

Personally,  I'd re-sign Ike and get a starting RG (VET ONLY). I don't want a rookie or low level starter next to Brown. Re-sign Q, Van Rotten, whoever you choose for depth I'd probably go with Q for flexibility). Then draft 1 or 2 OL. Doesn't really have to be early picks but should be able to compete for a starting position next season and one has to be OG/C combo (day 2/ early 3).

 

Ike and Bates battle for starting  LG. If Ike wins the battle you have a BU Center/ Guard. Bates wins, you have a BU guard. Bates best play is at LG or Center. 

 

LT Dawkins 

LG Ike/Bates 

C Morse

RG VET ONLY

RT Brown