Chaos Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 (edited) My personal opinion is that QB and HC compromise about 80% of the formula to win a championship. These are generally the two positions that allow the rest of the talent to produce at a higher level (or lower level) than they would otherwise achieve. It is a common exercise for people to group QBs into tiers. I think it is widely accepted that Allen, Burrows and Mahomes compromise the top tier of QBs and that everyone else is not at their level. I have not seen people group HCs in a similar manner. There seems to be an argument for Kyle Shanahan being the magic coach of 2023 making it to the championship game with a rookie 7th round draft pick at the helm. And his past success maybe justifies him being in the top tier. Seems like parsing HC's is harder than QBs. I think people separate Aaron Rodgers talent from the team failing to make the playoffs this year. I think people can develop opions about Tua or Deshone Watson independent of their teams success. Not sure it is easy to do the same with HCs. Pretty sure that Bill Belichek, the only current coach with more than one SB Ring, wasn't a doofus carried along by Tom Brady only, and that all of a sudden he sucks because he is saddled with Zac Jones. My take on the top tier is that it is 1A) Reid, Belichek, Shanahan and McVay 1B) Zac Taylor. Nick Siriani, Carroll, Harbaugh 2) McDermott, Pederson, Tomlin, Pederson, Vrabel, Lafleur 2B) Stefanski, Saleh, McDaniel, Daboll 3) Campbell everyone else below that. I am not at all sure my conclusions are correct. But I am curious what others think. I am much more interested overall on where our coaches stack up against the other teams, than how our coaches stack up against past Bills coaching staffs (arguably the lowest bar possible) Edited February 1, 2023 by Chaos 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Egg Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 Other HC’s. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 I think McVay is too high. His luster has worn off for me. I also think you have Saleh and McDaniels too high. But I think you have McDermott in the right place. He is in that 5 to 10 range. Good coach. 4 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 22 minutes ago, Chaos said: My personal opinion is that QB and HC compromise about 80% of the formula to win a championship. These are generally the two positions that allow the rest of the talent to produce at a higher level (or lower level) than they would otherwise achieve. It is a common exercise for people to group QBs into tiers. I think it is widely accepted that Allen, Burrows and Mahomes compromise the top tier of QBs and that everyone else is not at their level. I have not seen people group HCs in a similar manner. There seems to be an argument for Kyle Shanahan being the magic coach of 2023 making it to the championship game with a rookie 7th round draft pick at the helm. And his past success maybe justifies him being in the top tier. Seems like parsing HC's is harder than QBs. I think people separate Aaron Rodgers talent from the team failing to make the playoffs this year. I think people can develop opions about Tua or Deshone Watson independent of their teams success. Not sure it is easy to do the same with HCs. Pretty sure that Bill Belichek, the only current coach with more than one SB Ring, wasn't a doofus carried along by Tom Brady only, and that all of a sudden he sucks because he is saddled with Zac Jones. My take on the top tier is that it is 1A) Reid, Belichek, Shanahan and McVay 1B) Zac Taylor. Nick Siriani, Carroll, Harbaugh 2) McDermott, Peterson, Tomlin, Pederson, Vrabel, Lafleur 2B) Stefanski, Saleh, McDaniel 3) Campbell, Daboll everyone else below that. I am not at all sure my conclusions are correct. But I am curious what others think. I am much more interested overall on where our coaches stack up against the other teams, than how our coaches stack up against past Bills coaching staffs (arguably the lowest bar possible) Pretty good list. I don’t think McDaniel or Saleh have done anything to deserve being ranked ahead of Daboll, and Stefanski is too high, but other than that, it looks about right. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 Tomlin should higher. He won a SB and the Steelers have been competitive almost every year he has been there. 5 2 9 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 (edited) Pretty good list. Except- saleh and mcdaniel ahead of Daboll? Please explain. I also think Mcvay, sirianni and Taylor are a notch too high but understand why you’d place them there. also- who is Peterson? I assume you mean Pederson who you also listed? I’d also put pederson up a notch. Edited February 1, 2023 by NewEra 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Large Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 (edited) McDermott looks different with guys like McDaniels, Daboll, Phillips, Fangio, Evero as his supporting cast. Dorsey and Frazier are merely pedestrian, with the former maybe a little worse than.... If I were him, I'd want much more out of my staff than I'm currently getting... Edited February 1, 2023 by B-Large Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 Daboll led a terrible roster to a divisional game. Not sure how you can put him that low. My list 1) Reid, Belichek, Shanahan 2) Zac Taylor. Nick Siriani, McVay 3) McDermott, Carroll, Daboll, Harbaugh, Peterson, Tomlin, Pederson, Vrabel, Lafleur 4 Stefanski, Saleh, McDaniel, Campbell 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damj Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 = Good enough to get you to the play-offs ... not good enough to win a championship 2 2 1 1 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 2 minutes ago, damj said: = Good enough to get you to the play-offs ... not good enough to win a championship Where's Marv Levy in this montage? 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rm -rf /* Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 3 minutes ago, damj said: = Good enough to get you to the play-offs ... not good enough to win a championship He is nowhere near the Marty Chokenheimer level. Trust me, I have an large extended family of Queef's fan. He may be a burgeoning Chokenheimer comparison but he has many years to go yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Digg? Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 2 hours ago, Chaos said: My personal opinion is that QB and HC compromise about 80% of the formula to win a championship. These are generally the two positions that allow the rest of the talent to produce at a higher level (or lower level) than they would otherwise achieve. It is a common exercise for people to group QBs into tiers. I think it is widely accepted that Allen, Burrows and Mahomes compromise the top tier of QBs and that everyone else is not at their level. I have not seen people group HCs in a similar manner. There seems to be an argument for Kyle Shanahan being the magic coach of 2023 making it to the championship game with a rookie 7th round draft pick at the helm. And his past success maybe justifies him being in the top tier. Seems like parsing HC's is harder than QBs. I think people separate Aaron Rodgers talent from the team failing to make the playoffs this year. I think people can develop opions about Tua or Deshone Watson independent of their teams success. Not sure it is easy to do the same with HCs. Pretty sure that Bill Belichek, the only current coach with more than one SB Ring, wasn't a doofus carried along by Tom Brady only, and that all of a sudden he sucks because he is saddled with Zac Jones. My take on the top tier is that it is 1A) Reid, Belichek, Shanahan and McVay 1B) Zac Taylor. Nick Siriani, Carroll, Harbaugh 2) McDermott, Peterson, Tomlin, Pederson, Vrabel, Lafleur 2B) Stefanski, Saleh, McDaniel 3) Campbell, Daboll everyone else below that. I am not at all sure my conclusions are correct. But I am curious what others think. I am much more interested overall on where our coaches stack up against the other teams, than how our coaches stack up against past Bills coaching staffs (arguably the lowest bar possible) I don't think Taylor is in the 1B category.....for a portion of last year there was a lot of talk that he was going to get fired at the end of the year. They then went on their run and had a better year this year, but he was not doing well for a very long time 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damj Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 42 minutes ago, The Jokeman said: Where's Marv Levy in this montage? 45 minutes ago, damj said: =< Good enough to get you to the play-offs ... not good enough to win a championship At least Levy could get to a Superbowl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerstAusGosheim Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 None of the other coaches made the colossal mistakes of trading away the Mahomes pick and blowing 13 seconds, so it's really hard to compare. The 17-year playoff drought warped peoples brains into thinking this is even remotely acceptable. 2 3 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 Guys who’ve won Super Bowls are absolutely higher than McDermott. That’s 8 guys including Sean Payton. I think I’d put guys like Taylor and Sirianni higher than mcdermott because they’ve made a Super Bowl. definitely shanahan too. That puts mcdermott around 12th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beebe Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 TIER 1 - The clear best coaches in the league. 1. Belichick 2. Reid TIER 2 - Super Bowl champions who have had sustained success across 10+ years with the same team. 3. Carroll 4. Tomlin 5. Payton 6. Harbaugh TIER 3 - Coaches who are clearly very good but don't have the same long-term track record as the guys above them on this list 7. Shanahan 8. Vrabel 9. McVay 10. McDermott 11. Pederson TIER 4 - Coaches who are likely very good but don't have the same short-term track record as TIER 3 guys 12. Daboll 13. McDaniel 14. Taylor 15. Sirianni TIER 5 - League average coaches; with an average team, I think they'd lead them to a .500 record. 16. LaFleur 17. Reich 18. Rivera 19. McCarthy TIER 6 - Not sure, larger sample needed 20. Stefanski 21. O'Connell 22. Campbell 23. Saleh 24. Ryans 25. Eberflus TIER 7 - Open vacancy coaches 26. Vacant 27. Vacant TIER 8 - I've seen enough 28. Staley 29. Smith 30. Bowles 31. Allen 32. McDaniels 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 24 minutes ago, damj said: At least Levy could get to a Superbowl Give McDermott a Thurman Thomas on offense and get back to me. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 3 minutes ago, The Jokeman said: Give McDermott a Thurman Thomas on offense and get back to me. He would need an OL as well. Those 90's teams had a much better OL led by Kent Hull then what they have now. 8 minutes ago, beebe said: TIER 1 - The clear best coaches in the league. 1. Belichick 2. Reid TIER 2 - Super Bowl champions who have had sustained success across 10+ years with the same team. 3. Carroll 4. Tomlin 5. Payton 6. Harbaugh TIER 3 - Coaches who are clearly very good but don't have the same long-term track record as the guys above them on this list 7. Shanahan 8. Vrabel 9. McVay 10. McDermott 11. Pederson TIER 4 - Coaches who are likely very good but don't have the same short-term track record as TIER 3 guys 12. Daboll 13. McDaniel 14. Taylor 15. Sirianni TIER 5 - League average coaches; with an average team, I think they'd lead them to a .500 record. 16. LaFleur 17. Reich 18. Rivera 19. McCarthy TIER 6 - Not sure, larger sample needed 20. Stefanski 21. O'Connell 22. Campbell 23. Saleh 24. Ryans 25. Eberflus TIER 7 - Open vacancy coaches 26. Vacant 27. Vacant TIER 8 - I've seen enough 28. Staley 29. Smith 30. Bowles 31. Allen 32. McDaniels If he were still coaching in the league, I don't think Adam Gase would even make it to your Tier 8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 BillieBilliams, Process, McBean, PrimeTime101. * Oh, 'peers'. I looked quickly, and read it as 'pee-ers'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 37 minutes ago, damj said: At least Levy could get to a Superbowl It took Levy 5 years to get to a Super Bowl with 5 Hall of Famers and about another 4-5 All Pros. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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