Accountability?

[somnus00]

This team has been winning a lot of games. Clearly, "the process" has brought playoff caliber football back to Buffalo, and for that I am grateful to McBeane. But this upcoming season is a turning point for this regime.

 

"The process" hasn't brought championship caliber football to Buffalo. We have 3 years of getting out coached in the playoffs and seem to be getting further away from the superbowl rather than closer.

 

Diggs reaction on the field seems to suggest that the players may be feeling the same way. He has that C on his jersey because his teammates chose him as a captain. Rumor is that he was telling Josh to not listen to the coaching and to trust what he sees.

 

McD has shown a willingness to adapt. Frazier has not. It's too early to tell with Dorsey. But it seems that, left unchanged, the players may lose faith in "the process." McD benches players for fumbling. If he's going to keep the staff, he needs to bench his coordinators schemes a bit and get them to adapt the gameplan to their personnel.

[Billsfan1972]

42 minutes ago, somnus00 said:

This team has been winning a lot of games. Clearly, "the process" has brought playoff caliber football back to Buffalo, and for that I am grateful to McBeane. But this upcoming season is a turning point for this regime.

 

"The process" hasn't brought championship caliber football to Buffalo. We have 3 years of getting out coached in the playoffs and seem to be getting further away from the superbowl rather than closer.

 

Diggs reaction on the field seems to suggest that the players may be feeling the same way. He has that C on his jersey because his teammates chose him as a captain. Rumor is that he was telling Josh to not listen to the coaching and to trust what he sees.

 

McD has shown a willingness to adapt. Frazier has not. It's too early to tell with Dorsey. But it seems that, left unchanged, the players may lose faith in "the process." McD benches players for fumbling. If he's going to keep the staff, he needs to bench his coordinators schemes a bit and get them to adapt the gameplan to their personnel.

Again maybe a little on the offense, but see none of it on the defense and certainly come playoff time, the Defense has crumbled each and every loss. 

 

The only game the Defense did play well was vs. Baltimore (NE was vs. a Rookie and the Bills didn't punt, which is exactly what the Defense is based on). 

 

BTW Bills had 29 First Downs vs. NE winning 47-17.  KC in their two wins over Buffalo 29 & 30, Cincy 30 (but only 27 points).

Edited February 1, 2023 by Billsfan1972

[T master]

3 hours ago, 5ths the charm said:

So at this point the only coaching change is a safeties coach that held his position together with tape and glue. Is it about accountability or familiarity for the Bills. The same can be said with our scouts missing on draft picks. Our Defense was reliant on the offense scoring which put other teams in catch up mode. We cannot survive with an offense that needed josh to scramble or throw 50 yard bombs twice a game. Thoughts?

 

There may be some changes that need to be made & for the most part there are every year in the coaching ranks, scouting, & players but it seems that you feel the draft has sucked since Beane & McD have been here .

 

Tre White, Dion Dawkins, Matt Millano, Josh Allen, Tremaine Edmunds, Harrison Phillips, Taron Johnson, Siran Neal, Ed Oliver,Devin Singletary, Dawson Knox, Jaquan Johnson, Sweeney, AJ, Gabe, Bass, Isaiah Hodgins, Dane Jackson, Rousseau, Boogie, & so on .

 

Sure they have had some misses Nathen Petermen comes to mind along with some others but i think the scouting department although this is not a list of HOF players they don't out & out suck & have helped this team go from a perennial bottom feeder to being in the play offs every year since Beane & McD got here .

 

Some players that they have drafted have went on to do very well with other teams so although yes the Bills need to do better I'm thinking from what they were to why they are isn't as terrible as some make it out to be .

 

 

[Johnnycage46]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Accountability doesn't automatically mean "firings."

 

Honestly. It is one of my least favourite words in the social media age because people throw it around without any concept of what it actually means or looks like. 

Agreed.  I'm sure internally there has been a lot of discussion and will continue to be a lot of discussion on how and where to improve.  To me, that IS accountability.  If the team just literally went on vacation and put on blinders and thought everything was just fine, then obviously that would be zero accountability.  But I agree that firing someone is not the only form of "accountability".

 

I mean all jobs have forms of accountability that don't automatically equate to firings (e.g. performance meetings with a supervisor, recalibration meetings on where things need to be improved, etc.).

[5ths the charm]

On 2/1/2023 at 7:23 AM, PatsFanNH said:

First, you’re assuming it’s the scouts doing a bad job and not the GM and those around him ignoring them and just choosing who they want. Yes that does happen.

 

Your D was 4th overall and 8th in scoring D. So while people are screaming for change here the stats don’t show it and who will you get that’s better? 
 

Your O is Elite but to reliant on Allen.

Defense was great in first half because offense was outstanding and teams tried to play catch up. But when white and Miller went down we became easy prey for the good teams. We couldn't beat Bengals and wouldn't have won against Kc.

On 2/1/2023 at 8:32 AM, KHAN said:

I hold Beane and McDermott personally responsible for what we have seen here!!!!!

 

Taking a totally irrelevant franchise for nearly two decades to the playoffs 5 out of 6 years, and legit super bowl contenders for the last 3.

 

 

HEADS MUST ROLL!!!!!

 

 

Sarcasm noted, our drafts are mediocre at best and if Allen went down we would be toast. You think Keenum could keep it up? He is the epitome of a clipboard guy.

[5ths the charm]

On 2/1/2023 at 10:26 AM, T master said:

 

There may be some changes that need to be made & for the most part there are every year in the coaching ranks, scouting, & players but it seems that you feel the draft has sucked since Beane & McD have been here .

 

Tre White, Dion Dawkins, Matt Millano, Josh Allen, Tremaine Edmunds, Harrison Phillips, Taron Johnson, Siran Neal, Ed Oliver,Devin Singletary, Dawson Knox, Jaquan Johnson, Sweeney, AJ, Gabe, Bass, Isaiah Hodgins, Dane Jackson, Rousseau, Boogie, & so on .

 

Sure they have had some misses Nathen Petermen comes to mind along with some others but i think the scouting department although this is not a list of HOF players they don't out & out suck & have helped this team go from a perennial bottom feeder to being in the play offs every year since Beane & McD got here .

 

Some players that they have drafted have went on to do very well with other teams so although yes the Bills need to do better I'm thinking from what they were to why they are isn't as terrible as some make it out to be .

 

 

Wow that's alot of quality after the first 5

[OldTimer1960]

On 2/1/2023 at 7:31 AM, GunnerBill said:

Accountability doesn't automatically mean "firings."

 

Honestly. It is one of my least favourite words in the social media age because people throw it around without any concept of what it actually means or looks like. 

Thank you for this post.  I feel exactly the same way.

[Nextmanup]

On 2/1/2023 at 7:31 AM, GunnerBill said:

Accountability doesn't automatically mean "firings."

 

Honestly. It is one of my least favourite words in the social media age because people throw it around without any concept of what it actually means or looks like. 

Without punishment for mistakes, there can be no accountability.

 

Does punishment need to extend to termination?  No, certainly not always.

 

Though I'm not sure what other forms of it exist in a football coaching context.

 

Failure to hit salary incentives in a K?  Maybe.

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Without punishment for mistakes, there can be no accountability.

 

Does punishment need to extend to termination?  No, certainly not always.

 

Though I'm not sure what other forms of it exist in a football coaching context.

 

Failure to hit salary incentives in a K?  Maybe.

 

Disagree. There has to be an acknowledgement of mistakes. There doesn't have to be punishment. 

[John from Riverside]

On 2/1/2023 at 4:04 AM, 5ths the charm said:

So at this point the only coaching change is a safeties coach that held his position together with tape and glue. Is it about accountability or familiarity for the Bills. The same can be said with our scouts missing on draft picks. Our Defense was reliant on the offense scoring which put other teams in catch up mode. We cannot survive with an offense that needed josh to scramble or throw 50 yard bombs twice a game. Thoughts?

13 and 3

[GreggTX]

The accountability falls clearly on Von Miller, Micah Hyde and Da'Quan Jones on defense. They weren't available when we needed them.

On Offense, the OL simply didn't get it done. Others may share in the blame, but they own the lion's share. Maybe we should have run more, but with a bad OL, both running and passing are much harder. I also think Dorsey needs to change his mindset and establish the run much more. He's putting too much on Josh.

As far as unloading or replacing anyone, the entire OL except Dawkins should be replaced and Gabe Davis should be WR3 as before. On defense, we just need to get healthy and replace whoever we can't afford to keep. I suspect they won't resign Singletary or Poyer or most of the guys whose contracts have expired, especially Saffold. I know Saffold did his best, but clearly injuries have taken their toll. Also, Dorsey needs help. I'd give him another chance, but he knows he has to do better.

 

[Southern_Bills]

On 2/1/2023 at 6:23 AM, PatsFanNH said:

First, you’re assuming it’s the scouts doing a bad job and not the GM and those around him ignoring them and just choosing who they want. Yes that does happen.

 

Your D was 4th overall and 8th in scoring D. So while people are screaming for change here the stats don’t show it and who will you get that’s better? 
 

Your O is Elite but to reliant on Allen.

 

Decent logic, but we have seen this defense collapse in big moments way too many times to believe in it, Regards of what "stats" say.

[hondo in seattle]

3 hours ago, Southern_Bills said:

 

Decent logic, but we have seen this defense collapse in big moments way too many times to believe in it, Regards of what "stats" say.

 

 

Every good team - save one - ends the season in failure.   

 

Every defense collapses at some point - both D's collapsed yesterday in the Super Bowl.  Maybe both teams should fire their coaches.

[Olliemets]

I got depressed watching this game and thinking about something Phil Simms said Friday on Russo's Sirius show.

 

Can you imagine if the Bill's had somehow gotten here? IMO They'd have been blown out by this Philly Team. Josh would have been running for his life and Frazier's defense would have been torched. 

 

Simms mentioned  Mahomes, Burrow and Josh and said that Josh has fallen to # 3. But not because of the skill set. He's in the poorest position of the 3. Burrow has a lot of weopons and his OC runs the offence in a way that really helps him. They are running plays to set up the next play or a play later in the game. Like a chess game. Without coming out and directly saying it, he said Josh is carrying a weak OC on his back with limited weopons and is running for his life half the time.

 

Yet other than moving some deck chairs around, there is no indication of a shakeup coming. Other DCs and OCs are getting locked up and next year appears to be same old same old. Where's the"accountability"?

[hondo in seattle]

5 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Without punishment for mistakes, there can be no accountability.

 

Does punishment need to extend to termination?  No, certainly not always.

 

Though I'm not sure what other forms of it exist in a football coaching context.

 

Failure to hit salary incentives in a K?  Maybe.

 

 

 

 

"Without punishment for mistakes, there can be no accountability."  That was probably the leadership model of ancient Rome's Ninth Legion.  There are more modern leadership models available.  

[MJS]

Why a new thread to say the exact same thing everyone else says? There are literally dozens of threads a out the same exact thing.

[Don Otreply]

On 2/1/2023 at 7:04 AM, 5ths the charm said:

So at this point the only coaching change is a safeties coach that held his position together with tape and glue. Is it about accountability or familiarity for the Bills. The same can be said with our scouts missing on draft picks. Our Defense was reliant on the offense scoring which put other teams in catch up mode. We cannot survive with an offense that needed josh to scramble or throw 50 yard bombs twice a game. Thoughts?

You forgot about the guy they brought in to do some of Fraziers job/ replace him, just sayin, 

[hondo in seattle]

57 minutes ago, Olliemets said:

I got depressed watching this game and thinking about something Phil Simms said Friday on Russo's Sirius show.

 

Can you imagine if the Bill's had somehow gotten here? IMO They'd have been blown out by this Philly Team. Josh would have been running for his life and Frazier's defense would have been torched. 

 

Simms mentioned  Mahomes, Burrow and Josh and said that Josh has fallen to # 3. But not because of the skill set. He's in the poorest position of the 3. Burrow has a lot of weopons and his OC runs the offence in a way that really helps him. They are running plays to set up the next play or a play later in the game. Like a chess game. Without coming out and directly saying it, he said Josh is carrying a weak OC on his back with limited weopons and is running for his life half the time.

 

Yet other than moving some deck chairs around, there is no indication of a shakeup coming. Other DCs and OCs are getting locked up and next year appears to be same old same old. Where's the"accountability"?

 

What accountability do you want?  Beane's made the roster better overall.  But he has failed to build a good OL.  A lot of people - McD, Dorsey, Josh, Motor - would perform much better if Beane had acquired better offensive linemen.  So what do you do?  Do you fire Beane?  Do you write him up?   

 

No.  You identify the shortcoming and drive on.  

 

Absolutely, this roster, coaching staff and front office all need to get better.  Firing a bunch of people isn't the best answer unless you have better people waiting to join the team.  

[boater]

Yeah. Because holding accountable, and firing, a long string of head coaches, has worked so well for the Cleveland Browns. The Bills should follow suit.

[PBF81]

9 minutes ago, boater said:

Yeah. Because holding accountable, and firing, a long string of head coaches, has worked so well for the Cleveland Browns. The Bills should follow suit.

 

Hiring the right one is also key.  But today, clearly having a defensive mind as a head coach, isn't the way to go.  That should be obvious, especially for us.  

 

I've always been a fan of firing a non-performing coach when a good one becomes available.  I wouldn't even have a problem with negotiating with one before firing the other, after all, it's a business, right.  

 

What I've objected to in the past, for us namely, is missing out on some good hires over the years, until public/media sentiment forced a firing, then not having any good options that offseason, then "hiring the best one available," who also isn't good and possibly no better than the one that you got rid of. 

 

Nothing wrong with replacing something with something that's better.  And changes have to be made when things aren't working out.  

 

In our case, we're lucky to have Allen, and we're lucky too that he hasn't suffered a major injury given the hodgepodge manner in which we've constructed our OL.  He's 27 next season tho, he'll be 32 in six seasons.  That's not very long with him in his prime, and he's not going to be playing his style in his back-9.  Wasting it on a coach that simply doesn't understand how to get them over that hump, which is our expectation as fans, has its risks.  

 

It's one thing to have a coach that seems to be capable of learning, but the things that we're seeing from McD indicate that he's topped out on the learning.  Some learn at faster rates than others.  His cheer-leading approach only nets a team so much.  

 

We'll see, none of us can do anything about this but gripe, but I have a suspicion that we're not even going to win the division next season.  If that happens the heat will increase exponentially.  The big question is who has power/control over whom, McD over Beane (untypical) or Beane over McD, who hired him.  Could get very interesting.  Perhaps Pegula ends up having enough and gets rid of both of 'em, although I don't see that happening.