Perhaps Kromer is overrated as an OLine coach?

[BigPappy]

Not for nothing but Kromer is considered one of the best offensive linemen coaches in the league. In his first stint at Buffalo, the Bills led the NFL in rushing yards. Your O-line is only as good as it's weakest link, and pretty much anywhere he has been, the o-lines have been high performers. I am more inclined to think that the issue is  player skill set and not the person coaching.

[hondo in seattle]

I don't trust PFF enough to conclude that Kromer is failing.

 

Just watching our guys get manhandled some games tells me the quality of the players - regardless of the coaching - just isn't good enough. 

 

Better blocking schemes might have made them look a little better.  Better passing schemes (that got receivers open and got the ball out quickly) for sure would have made them look better.  But they're just not very good.

[PrimeTime101]

4 hours ago, Big Turk said:

Every OLineman regressed...

 

 

Lol

Lets break this mess down... the Who, The responsibilities that concern the line on any given play and my personal opinions. Variables and Bottom Line to follow. 

 

Who:                                                  <Responsibilities>                                                                                                               <Personal Opinion>

GM:  Is the gm doing the right job getting the right type of OL Men we need? NO We need a line that can pass protect better than run block.

HC:  How much of the offensive scheme is on the HC and how involved is he imposing his will on the overall Scheme. Defensive HC is invoved but not enough to change a ton

OC:  Is putting the best players out there going from one year to the next? Is his play designs on the OL proper to the play? For example, for screens is his lines running the right stunts? is he play calling for what the OL Does best? We do not use the whole field, We need routs that take up the field more that splits the defenders up more. 3 man routs for example on first and 10, 2 going deep, another going 10 yards+ and HB hitting flat. This is not using the whole field.

TEC:  Are the TE's doing a good enough job chipping at the line? I think the TE's do an average to good job chipping away at the OL as they go out to receive. 

HBC:  When they go out to catch, how often are HB's helping by chipping at the line? I think if HB's are going out to receive with this line? they need to chip more

OLC: Is the OLC Teaching these guys proper technique? Only the Coaches on the field can tell if he is doing a good job. NO WAY can anyone not on the field tell us otherwise.

 

Variables:

OC needs better play designs then what we are running right now. IF JA is audabising away from the play to frequently then it is up to the coaches to tell him to knock it off.

QB needs to trust the play caller coming in and not think he has to gun it 10+ yards on every down

Plays need to be designed so the HB and the TE's are either staying in to block OR Chipping and not just free running. Thats how you help the OL.

The OLC needs to know when his line needs help and remind the coaches more when they are failing.

These PFF grades? just the overall right? where we failing more? what is the breakdown? We failing more at pass protection or run blocking? PFF is a GREAT TOOL if your not just looking at ONE number.

 

Bottom Line

you guys want to just put the blame game on one person? keep rolling with that!  

 

 

[Billever76]

3 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

 

Your QB has terrible pocket awareness.  That's what its saying.  But people will continue to blame the O line.  

 

For some reason, Allen can do no wrong on this board.

You are wrong 😆....the oline finished the season ranked 28th in the league..the highest rated oline players were morse and Dawkins both ranked 24th at their respective positions 😆 

[Jerome007]

1 hour ago, T master said:

because when he was here before with Shady in the back field the Bills had the number 1 run game

Incognito and Shady were MONEY for the Bills, And it was also Roman's great run schemes (and awful pass schemes). I'd much rather have what we have now... while improving the run game of course. Not a tall task with better overall offensive schemes and 1 or 2 great additions to the Oline.

[PrimeTime101]

17 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Lol

Lets break this mess down... the Who, The responsibilities that concern the line on any given play and my personal opinions. Variables and Bottom Line to follow. 

 

Who:                                                  <Responsibilities>                                                                                                               <Personal Opinion>

GM:  Is the gm doing the right job getting the right type of OL Men we need? NO We need a line that can pass protect better than run block.

HC:  How much of the offensive scheme is on the HC and how involved is he imposing his will on the overall Scheme. Defensive HC is invoved but not enough to change a ton

OC:  Is putting the best players out there going from one year to the next? Is his play designs on the OL proper to the play? For example, for screens is his lines running the right stunts? is he play calling for what the OL Does best? We do not use the whole field, We need routs that take up the field more that splits the defenders up more. 3 man routs for example on first and 10, 2 going deep, another going 10 yards+ and HB hitting flat. This is not using the whole field.

TEC:  Are the TE's doing a good enough job chipping at the line? I think the TE's do an average to good job chipping away at the OL as they go out to receive. 

HBC:  When they go out to catch, how often are HB's helping by chipping at the line? I think if HB's are going out to receive with this line? they need to chip more

OLC: Is the OLC Teaching these guys proper technique? Only the Coaches on the field can tell if he is doing a good job. NO WAY can anyone not on the field tell us otherwise.

 

Variables:

OC needs better play designs then what we are running right now. IF JA is audabising away from the play to frequently then it is up to the coaches to tell him to knock it off.

QB needs to trust the play caller coming in and not think he has to gun it 10+ yards on every down

Plays need to be designed so the HB and the TE's are either staying in to block OR Chipping and not just free running. Thats how you help the OL.

The OLC needs to know when his line needs help and remind the coaches more when they are failing.

These PFF grades? just the overall right? where we failing more? what is the breakdown? We failing more at pass protection or run blocking? PFF is a GREAT TOOL if your not just looking at ONE number.

 

Bottom Line

you guys want to just put the blame game on one person? keep rolling with that!  

 

 

 

48 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

I don't trust PFF enough to conclude that Kromer is failing.

 

Just watching our guys get manhandled some games tells me the quality of the players - regardless of the coaching - just isn't good enough. 

 

Better blocking schemes might have made them look a little better.  Better passing schemes (that got receivers open and got the ball out quickly) for sure would have made them look better.  But they're just not very good.

yea this is why I posted the above. How can we the fans judge one person on doing what we don't see when there is just so much more involved?

5 hours ago, Big Turk said:

Every OLineman regressed...

 

 

and by the way.... Tasker is getting SLAMMED for this dumb post.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Looking at splits - 

 

Fewer RPOs than last year, despite similar levels of success.  

Similarly effective on Play action.  

He was less effective under center this season.

Intended Air yards were way up

Throwaways way down, drops up

[colin]

if the D doubles diggs, knox isn't great at getting open quick, we have no screen game, davis is not a route runner, mckenzie is not trusted nor should he be, so who is getting open with a quickness?

 

compound that with not snap to snap horrible play, but just total jail breaks once in a while, and you got yourself a bad line stew going!

[BarleyNY]

5 hours ago, ngbills said:

OL, Kromer, Allen, Dorsey...pick your poison. But some combination of this group did a bad job. 

Perfect answer. None of us know what combination of the above is the reason for the Bills OL declining from below average last season to even more below average this season. But my eyes told me that was the case long before today when I saw those numbers from PFF.   

[hemma]

Kromer is not attached to Spencer Brown’s feet.

[gjv]

Let's see, Kromer sucks, Dorsey sucks, Frazier sucks, McDermott sucks, and other than Allen, Beane sucks at drafting. How the hell did we win any games these last few years?

[quinnearlysghost88]

You know what warms my heart? People still pissed at the bills like two weeks later. It really shows true adoration. We are all scorned lovers. 

Edited January 31, 2023 by quinnearlysghost88

[3rdand12]

6 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

But the fact remains the Bills identified this as a point of weakness and wanted to get better and they got worse...

O scheme confusing ?
Allow me to blame Dorsey once again here for running some hairbrained offense with no balance. Kinda surprised Aaron never too him out back of his to try out the lawn chairs he just bought for such and occasion to b slap lil Kenny.

 Yes I know. Its a problem I am working through  lol

12 minutes ago, gjv said:

Let's see, Kromer sucks, Dorsey sucks, Frazier sucks, McDermott sucks, and other than Allen, Beane sucks at drafting. How the hell did we win any games these last few years?

Allen kinda sucked too ?
Jk
On to next season !

[Billz4ever]

6 hours ago, JohnNord said:

He was 50th out of 50 guards in PFF.  Say what you will about their grading but that is BAD

We paid Saffold $6M to come here and be the worst. 🤦‍♂️

Edited January 31, 2023 by Billz4ever

[T master]

2 hours ago, Jerome007 said:

Incognito and Shady were MONEY for the Bills, And it was also Roman's great run schemes (and awful pass schemes). I'd much rather have what we have now... while improving the run game of course. Not a tall task with better overall offensive schemes and 1 or 2 great additions to the Oline.

 

Now that Roman is unemployed we need to send Beane a message to hire him back as run game coordinator him & Dorsey could make a good team

 

Players have come back & Kromer came back so why not him ? Could be a good get !! Heck maybe they could even coax Incognito out of retirement 🤔 ...

Edited January 31, 2023 by T master

[PrimeTime101]

10 hours ago, JohnNord said:

He was 50th out of 50 guards in PFF.  Say what you will about their grading but that is BAD

wrong, 50th of the top 50, not all 50

[Saxum]

20 hours ago, Big Turk said:

Every OLineman regressed...

 

 

 

Maybe PFF regressed?  Hard to do from bottom however but you could make a underground level.

 

[Big Turk]

49 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Maybe PFF regressed?  Hard to do from bottom however but you could make a underground level.

 

FWIW, all teams subscribe to their service so they must feel it has SOME use.

 

Started from the bottom, now we here...

 

Started from the bottom, now my whole team's FREAKIN' here!

 

 

[Don Otreply]

I think it is more so, on the overall offensive scheme, primarily related to personnel usage and play call sequencing, as well getting Joshy to take the underneath stuff with some regularity, the offense is not keeping the opposing defenses honest, as the phrase goes, we have become a predictable offense, this is principally  on Dorsey and then sprinkled down to his assistant coaches. To me Dorsey calls plays like one would imagine a college QB doing the job. 
 

GO BILLS!!!
 

 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

On 1/31/2023 at 3:37 PM, BigPappy said:

Not for nothing but Kromer is considered one of the best offensive linemen coaches in the league. In his first stint at Buffalo, the Bills led the NFL in rushing yards. Your O-line is only as good as it's weakest link, and pretty much anywhere he has been, the o-lines have been high performers. I am more inclined to think that the issue is  player skill set and not the person coaching.

I would agree. Run blocking was improved, or at least production was. 
 

Age hit Saffold HARD, and Browns lack of off-season hurt in the long run. I have no issues with the performances of Dawkins, Bates, or Morse. They are good and can be great. 

Edited February 1, 2023 by TheyCallMeAndy