Would you resign Edmunds or a tackle?

[Straight Hucklebuck]

This is such a good discussion. 

 

This Bills team is stalled at the 3rd best team in the Conference now with back to back Divisional losses. 

 

I graded the Bills drafts since 2017 on the basis of simply did the pick work out on an A, B, C, D, F scale, with no weight on Round or Position.

 

This is just one way to look at how the roster has evolved the way it has and here are the results:

 

Offensive A - 3 (Dawkins, Allen, Diggs)
Offensive B - 2 (Knox, Davis)
Offensive C - 4 (Singletary, Brown, Cook, Shakir)
Offensive D - 1 (McCloud)
Offensive F - 13 (Zay Jones, Peterman, Teller, Proehl, Ford, Sweeney, Moss, Fromm, Hodgins, Doyle, Stevenson, Anderson, Tenuta)

 

Gaps: OL, WR
Total: 23
A's/B's: 22%

 

 

Defensive A - 3 (White, Milano, Edmunds)
Defensive B - 2 (Johnson, Jackson)
Defensive C - 7 (Phillips, Neal, Oliver, Rousseau, Hamlin, Elam, Benford)
Defensive D - 3 (Johnson, Epenesa, Basham)
Defensive F - 6 (Vallejo, Joseph, Johnson, Wildgoose, Bernard, Spector)

 

Gaps: DT, DE
Total: 21
A's/B's: 24%

 

The Bills average draft is balanced. Almost always the same number of players on Offense and Defense.

 

I think it's clear where this team has fallen short. We have no organically developed good offensive lineman except Dawkins. The Bills haven't drafted one great WR outside of the Diggs trade. 

 

On defense, despite the massive investment, not one good DT selected, and not one good (not even great) DE. 

 

 

 

Preliminarly, I agree with others, the focus need to be on Allen. He needs a better Offensive Line, and there has to be another great WR added to this team somehow. 

 

I look through the Bills Free Agents, and outside of Edmunds, I don't see where the Bills should go out of their way to extend any but 2 of these 4: Edmunds, Phillips, Jackson, Lawson. 

 

I'd pick Edmunds and Phillips (he'll be cheap) and he's the only DT with size on the team. 

 

With this coaching staff, I have no faith that Hines will see the field unless Singletary is forcibly removed from the equation. 

 

 

 

Conclusions:

 

Doing this means a significant overhaul on the offensive line: Quesenberry, Van Roten, Boettger, Safford, Hart. 

 

The defense looks like it is set to take a rather large step backwards, and that is okay, lean into Allen and the offense. 

 

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by Straight Hucklebuck

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Round 1, Pick 27

Round 2, Pick 59

Round 3, Pick 91

Round 4, Pick 128

Round 5, Pick 135 (from Arizona)

Round 5, Pick 160

 

 

I think you could see something like:

 

1. Best available WR

2. Guard

3. Guard

4. Center/Tackle

5. Linebacker

6. Cornerback

 

In FA, get veteran minimum Safety. 

 

It's up to the Bills coaches to get anything out of Rousseau, Basham and Epensa, but I do not want to see more investment there. 

 

As Beane said, Von was the big-ticket. 

 

 

[BillyBilliams]

Edmunds needs to be signed.  Poyer can go.  There is a reason why other teams are BEGGING for Edmunds to go to FA.  He's a monster.

[colin]

the d needs pass rush, the rest can be filled in schematically (assuming we run the same one).  

 

we need WRs and OL.  not sure i'd pay for a RT, would rather pay up for solid interior guys (more than one) or a LT which would let us move dawkins to RG, bates to C and ditch morse, and then we some options on the right side, including the draft.  

 

i'd go ham and extend guys to sign another solid wr.  letting edmunds walk is part of that.

 

daquan jones (who didn't break the bank) being out kills our run d, miller being out killed our pass rush.  that tells me we need to pay guys like that, and not the back 7 guys we love over paying even tho our scheme protects the heck out of them.

[hondo in seattle]

I like Edmunds better than most but, man, we need OL help.

 

A better OL means a better running attack, which means a less predictable offense, which means a better passing attack too.

 

And a better OL means a healthier Allen.  They guys is getting beat up and we're asking him to do too much.  He needs capable bodyguards.

[BarleyNY]

3 hours ago, Logic said:

My only question to all of the "let Edmunds walk" people is this:

Middle linebacker is a pretty important position in the McDermott/Frazier defense. If they let Edmunds walk and, let's say, spend the money instead on the offensive line or a wide receiver...are you cool with them turning around and spending a 1st round pick on a linebacker? Because it sure seems like an important enough position to this coaching staff that they'd need to devote meaningful resources to finding a replacement.

While I can understand wanting to let Edmunds walk and to spend money elsewhere, it still leaves behind the question of: Who replaces Edmunds, and are you okay with the answer being "a premium draft pick"?

F no. It seems like every freaking position - including 4 backup defensive lineman - is of utmost importance in McDermott’s/Frazier’s defense. Yet that defense still falters every year in the playoffs. How about they spend some money and picks on the offense and make do with a modestly priced FA at MLB and see how that goes? Maybe even coach a guy up. It’s time to flip our resource allocation and help Allen and the offense out. 

Edited January 31, 2023 by BarleyNY

[nosejob]

The biggest problem is the coaching! Dorsey didn't pressure Josh to take the check downs and move the chains or concentrate on using his Oline to pull and run outside to help the run game.

 

On Defense, Frazier is stuck in his geriatric ways and can't stop a clock. He has no ability to come up with anything new or scheme specific game plans according to opponents.

 

I get it, we had Jags on the Oline, but I don't think Beane's contract planning was to bankrupt us. I think there are D.C.s in this league that could have done way more with what we have than what we got out of ours. That Cincy game was pathetic. The defense didn't win games, Josh did.

 

Blaming players( unless your name is Saffold), is the biggest load of crap when we've all seen the rush fo, soft zone B.S. right in front of us to view over and over.

Until the D.C. changes it ain't gonna matter who we draft because the idea of simply outscoring opponents is asinine.

 

McD is turning out to be a Mon. thru Sat. coach who doesn't seem to be able to put his foot up anybody's ass.

 

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by nosejob

[Straight Hucklebuck]

3 minutes ago, nosejob said:

The biggest problem is the coaching! Dorsey didn't pressure Josh to take the check downs and move the chains or concentrate on using his Oline to pull and run outside to help the run game.

 

On Defense, Frazier is stuck in his geriatric ways and can't stop a clock. He has no ability to come up with anything new or scheme specific game plans according to opponents.

 

I get it, we had Jags on the Oline, but I don't think Beane's contract planning was to bankrupt us. I think there are D.C.s in this league that could have done way more with what we have than what we got out of ours. That Cincy game was pathetic. The defense didn't win games, Josh did.

 

Blaming players( unless your name is Saffold), is the biggest load of crap when we've all seen the rush fo, soft zone B.S. right in front of us to view over and over.

Until the D.C. changes it ain't gonna matter who we draft because the idea of simply outscoring opponents is asinine.

 

McD is turning out to be  Mon. thru Sat. coach who doesn't seem to be able to put his foot up anybody's ass.

 

 

Beane is a big part of this though. 

 

There has been a ton of investment - Rousseau, Basham, Epenesa with nothing to show for it. 

 

[nosejob]

8 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Beane is a big part of this though. 

 

There has been a ton of investment - Rousseau, Basham, Epenesa with nothing to show for it. 

 

Then run some stunts and or put any one of them inside!. For Pete's sake blitz a little more! How about some press man instead of playing the receivers beyond first down markers? I'm not the smartest, but rushing four against 5 lineman, a TE and a back is  probably not gonna work week in and week out....let alone allow any of the guys you mentioned a chance to get home. The definition of insanity.

Edited January 31, 2023 by nosejob

[Jerome007]

2 hours ago, BigBuff423 said:

If it's the same money and there's a good OT available, I'm spending my money there....drafting LB to replace Edmund

Of coure for the same money, a top OL, be it a guard or tackle, is better.

 

But it seems year after year, most of this board value draft picks so much. Do you realize very few draftees make it a starters, let alone as backups?

 

A 3rd+ round LB pick is a crap shoot. For one Milano there must be 2-3-4 that are not even in  the league a short time later. So yeah, you draft one, but it's no guarantee.

 

Beane has not drafted well but I like his approach of signing backups stuck behind elite starters. At least they have proven they belong in the league. But yeah, time for an OLine signing on the level of the Diggs one! 

[Riverboat Ritchie]

5 hours ago, Big Turk said:

Edmunds is likely gone...someone is going to pay WELL above $11 million a year for him and the franchise tag is $20.9 million, so that isn't a realistic option either. Only hope is if he pulls a Milano and takes less to stay...he openly said how much he loves it here, how he loves the team, the coaches and the locker room...I guess we will see just how much. Perhaps a 6 or 7 year deal that gives him more in guarantees but helps save some money? Trade longer term and more guarantees for less overall money?

Given how young he is, a longer deal where you can spread out hit makes sense. 

[transient]

Are we able to resign Saffold... fresh off his Pro Bowl appearance to recognize his worst in the league status... and then try to re-sign Edmunds and OL help?

[Matt_In_NH]

The 11M came from Spotrac which has a market value on some guys.   I watched that last year for a bunch of guys and they are way under what guys actually sign for in free agency.  If they can get him for that, you have to try and make it work, but I bet he gets way above that.

[BringBackFlutie]

I'd definitely resign the RT. He sucks.

[DrDawkinstein]

Here's what we are looking at for the Edmunds deal:

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/roquan-smith-25103/

 

 

Not too bad if we could actually get something like this done. Get that hit down from $12M this year to $9M next year, have an out after 3 years.

[Thurman#1]

11 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I can sign Taylor (RT) and Pocic (C) and still have money left over. This idea of keeping Tremaine is ridiculous. It's not happening. If this organization dumps 20M into Tremaine instead of helping Josh, that will divide the locker room.

 

 

Dude, the odds are good that they're re-signing Tremaine.

 

And that it will be for considerably less than $20M. 

 

It may be possible for him to get $20M, and if he does insist on that, he's likely gone. But he likes it here.

 

Those are likely. What is a sure thing is that if it did happen, it would absolutely not divide the locker room. And that it's not an either/or between Tremaine and the OL in the first place.

 

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by Thurman#1

[Dopey]

9 hours ago, MarkyMannn said:

We got one last year, how did that work out.  There is no reason to believe another LB drafted won't end up the same way.  I'm assuming picks 1 and 2 are OL & WR.

It worked out the way we thought. He sat the bench as depth and someone we can coach up. You really think he was drafted to start as a rookie? Over Edmunds or Milano?
🤔

[Dopey]

8 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

You need an entire coaching staff change to get what you laid out here. Which Im not necessarily against, but it takes way more than just signing a thumper., and that is a whole different thread.

 

Our scheme does not ask the MLB to play like that, nor is it designed that way. Edmunds is incredibly good at what the team/scheme rely on him to do.

 

 

Thank you. Edmunds does exactly what the coaches want from him. Some people actually sound pissed at Edmunds. I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again to those people, you’re mad at the coaches not Edmunds. But then who would be their whipping boy? 
To answer the op question, Edmunds. 

[nikuman]

O-Line. Period. We can't consistently run the ball and that's not all on the RBs. Give Josh 1 extra second in the pocket before feeling pressure and we're putting up 40 points a game. I'll take a 45-32 victory every day of the week. 

Edited February 1, 2023 by nikuman

[Nitro]

Edmunds loss would open a huge hole on defense.  A FA RT is not a need.  Brown is growing and learning.  He had growing pains but I think he will be a solid RT.