Im convinced its coaching (Chiefs showing how to handle Bengals)

[TampaBillsJunkie]

On 1/29/2023 at 7:20 PM, 4th&long said:

The bills D scheme is tired and has been figured out a long time ago. 

We've got to get aggressive on defense. Seems like Von was the only person to cause pressure without a blitz and once he went down the defensive philosophy barely changed and they expected Shaq to do what Von was doing. Just plain stupid.

On 1/29/2023 at 7:24 PM, peterpan said:

All 4 teams today have great OL play.  
 

But wait! Don't we have 3OL in the Pro Bowl. What a joke!

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, UKBillFan said:

He is unusually good at escaping pressure but, by this time, his default is to look deep. He looks towards the end zone rather than short field. If the O Line held up, as it did pre bye, it’d open up more of the field for Josh to exploit.

 

Two examples from yesterday I will use:

 

1) 4th and 1 in the red zone, Mahomes has Smith-Schuster open in the flat for an easy 1st down. He instead tosses it to Kelce in single coverage downfield in the endzone. TD.

 

2) 4th and 6 at midfield, Burrow launches a deep ball to Chase in double coverage. Huge completion and sets them up for a TD.

 

Our version of that play - 3rd and 2, Allen launches a deep ball to Davis. Bounces off his hands and we punt.

 

What's the difference in those plays? Not the decision. Mahomes' and Burrow's guys made plays for them. Our guy dropped his. So of course our fanbase screams at Allen for being over aggressive. Yeah this stuff really bothers me.

 

Throwing deep in short yardage situations a lot of times is a good thing because the defense is overplaying the sticks. I don't ever want Allen to lose that part of his game. Instead I want Beane to draft guys that hold up their end of the bargain for him.

[Senth]

Ravens ran a good D against the Bengals ..... they are the model to follow.

[Brand J]

37 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

You just answered your previous question to why Mahomes is better in most people's eyes. 

I didn’t ask that question. Mahomes has a lot more cred (awards, MVPs, championships) than Allen, so I can’t pretend like I don’t see what most other football analysts and fans see. Allen isn’t on Mahomes’ level yet, but let’s see if that changes when he’s given a credible OL and WRs who bail him out rather than drop passes.

[newcam2012]

42 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

I didn’t ask that question. Mahomes has a lot more cred (awards, MVPs, championships) than Allen, so I can’t pretend like I don’t see what most other football analysts and fans see. Allen isn’t on Mahomes’ level yet, but let’s see if that changes when he’s given a credible OL and WRs who bail him out rather than drop passes.

I agree but I have a question for you. Do you have faith that the Bills organization will get a credible OL and WRs for Allen?

If so how and how long will it take. Past history by regime isn't exactly a scathing vote of confidence. Let me show you.

 

Brandon Beane's OL Draft investments to ensure the protection of the franchise QB. 

2018 Wyatt Teller Rd 5 ❌️
2019 Cody Ford Rd2 ❌️
2021 Spencer Brown Rd 3
2021 Tommy Doyle Rd 5
2021 Jack Anderson Rd 7 ❌️
2022 Luke Tenuta Rd 6 ❌️

❌️ No longer on the team. 

Edited January 31, 2023 by newcam2012

[RandomBengalFan]

I completely agree with your thread.  That's its not on your personnel, it's mostly coaching, and that you'd have a much better team with the roster you have.

 

Can I ask you guys, do any of you feel the Chiefs got some help from the officials during this game?

And I don't mean the Joseph Ossai penalty at the end, that was legit and can't argue with it.

Just meaning the previous 5 calls or so, and missed calls.

1) missed hands to the face on Chris Jones vs Adeniji on one of his sacks

2) do over 3rd down/5 downs lol

Yeah me made them punt but still field position and time

3)missed block in the back long punt return

4) no late hit on burrow

5) holding against Hendrickson on the Mahones scramble penalty play

 

I mean in the 4th their was zero penalties on the Chiefs, all against the Bengals.

Still it was a 3 point game and proud of them.  Love Ossai and he played his *ss off.  Not mad.  Feel like it should of been decided in OT.

 

Props to the Chiefs for having a great game plan and playing their *sses off.  Chris Jones played amazing, wrecked our patchwork oLine.  Thought their receivers played great, last time Valdez Scandliing was dropping everything, regular season.  He was locked in and Juju.  Props to their fans for making a very hostile environment early and disrupting our offense.

 

Just super disappointed with Ron Torbert and his crew. Same clown that threw the Logan Wilson holding flag on 3rd n goal last year in the Super Bowl. Felt a little fixed to me.  Not counting that final late hit was a late hit and can't argue that.  Any thoughts?

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by RandomBengalFan

[Brand J]

21 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I agree but I have a question for you. Do you have faith that the Bills organization will get a credible OL and WRs for Allen?

If so how and how long will it take. Past history by regime isn't exactly a scathing vote of confidence. Let me show you.

 

Brandon Beane's OL Draft investments to ensure the protection of the franchise QB. 

2018 Wyatt Teller Rd 5 ❌️
2019 Cody Ford Rd2 ❌️
2021 Spencer Brown Rd 3
2021 Tommy Doyle Rd 5
2021 Jack Anderson Rd 7 ❌️
2022 Luke Tenuta Rd 6 ❌️

❌️ No longer on the team. 

Beane has had an issue evaluating the trenches as well as WRs, so I don’t know. Don’t have a ton of hope to be honest, but all I can do is ride it out with everyone else.

 

8 minutes ago, RandomBengalFan said:

I completely agree with your thread.  That's its not on your personnel, it's mostly coaching, and that you'd have a much better team with the roster you have.

 

Can I ask you guys, do any of you feel the Chiefs got some help from the officials during this game?

And I don't mean the Joseph Ossai penalty at the end, that was legit and can't argue with it.

Just meaning the previous 5 calls or so, and missed calls.

1) missed hands to the face on Chris Jones vs Adeniji on one of his sacks

2) do over 3rd down/5 downs lol

Yeah me made them punt but still field position and time

3)missed block in the back long punt return

4) no late hit on burrow

5) holding against Hendrickson on the Mahones scramble penalty play

 

I mean in the 4th their was zero penalties on the Chiefs, all against the Bengals.

Still it was a 3 point game and proud of them.  Love Ossai and he played his *ss off.  Not mad.  Feel like it should of been decided in OT.

 

Props to the Chiefs for having a great game plan and playing their *sses off.  Chris Jones played amazing, wrecked our patchwork oLine.  Thought their receivers played great, last time Valdez Scandliing was dropping everything, regular season.  He was locked in and Juju.  Props to their fans for making a very hostile environment early and disrupting our offense.

 

Just super disappointed with Ron Torbert and his crew. Same clown that threw the Logan Wilson holding flag on 3rd n goal last year in the Super Bowl. Felt a little fixed to me.  Not counting that final late hit was a late hit and can't argue that.  Any thoughts?

 

There was definitely some home cooking going on, but the inverse happened last week. Bills got hit with all sorts of penalties (some I didn’t think were legit), while the Bengals and their makeshift OL got away scott free. Do I think it would’ve made a difference on the scoreboard if the officiating felt more equal last week? No. It was simply the Bengals’ night, aided by terrible game plans. But it definitely would’ve made a difference in the KC game if it was officiated more fairly. 

[RandomBengalFan]

7 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

 

There was definitely some home cooking going on, but the inverse happened last week. Bills got hit with all sorts of penalties (some I didn’t think were legit), while the Bengals and their makeshift OL got away scott free. Do I think it would’ve made a difference on the scoreboard if the officiating felt more equal last week? No. It was simply the Bengals’ night, aided by terrible game plans. But it definitely would’ve made a difference in the KC game if it was officiated more fairly. 

JayBaller,

I appreciate your honest reply.

As long as you guys are discussing coaching changes, did you know our OC and DC are both interviewing for the Arizona job?  And also our OC has a second interview with Indy.  Maybe Buffalo snatches them up 😁

LOL.  Anyway I hope we keep our coaches.  At first didn't care for Anarumo, but im a believer now, once he got his personnel with free agency and draft and implented his plan.  Definitely thought he did an admirable job last night and throughout the playoffs. Good luck in your guys coaching search 👍

[QCity]

45 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I agree but I have a question for you. Do you have faith that the Bills organization will get a credible OL and WRs for Allen?

If so how and how long will it take. Past history by regime isn't exactly a scathing vote of confidence. Let me show you.

 

Brandon Beane's OL Draft investments to ensure the protection of the franchise QB. 

2018 Wyatt Teller Rd 5 ❌️

 

18 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

Beane has had an issue evaluating the trenches

 

Teller was an incredible pick. An absolute grand-slam home run in the 5th round. The kind of pick you talk about for years. A total mauling, road grader guard that this team so desperately needs.

 

Except he wasn't coached and developed properly here. He started half a season for us and looked completely lost. This staff concluded he had a limited ceiling and traded him for peanuts. Cleveland saw something we didn't, and after 1 season there he's been a 2nd team All Pro for the past 2 years. That's right, we got played by Cleveland.

 

Every GM is going to miss more picks than they hit, but you have to correctly develop the hits.

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, QCity said:

 

 

Teller was an incredible pick. An absolute grand-slam home run in the 5th round. The kind of pick you talk about for years. A total mauling, road grader guard that this team so desperately needs.

 

Except he wasn't coached and developed properly here. He started half a season for us and looked completely lost. This staff concluded he had a limited ceiling and traded him for peanuts. Cleveland saw something we didn't, and after 1 season there he's been a 2nd team All Pro for the past 2 years. That's right, we got played by Cleveland.

 

Every GM is going to miss more picks than they hit, but you have to correctly develop the hits.

Kind of a paradox saying you have to correctly develop the hits. If you don't have the ability to coach and develop its very likely you will think it's a miss. Teller is a perfect example of that. See Zay Jones too. 

[QCity]

28 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Kind of a paradox saying you have to correctly develop the hits. If you don't have the ability to coach and develop its very likely you will think it's a miss. Teller is a perfect example of that. See Zay Jones too. 

 

Yes, exactly my point.

 

Ed Oliver was a consensus top 10 pick. Rousseau was slated to go late in the 1st round. Epenesa and Basham were both projected 2nd round picks. None of these players were "reaches" or what you would call "egregious" picks. Are all 4 of them actually just poor to mediocre players? I guess it's possible but I would expect at least one of them to flash considering their pedigrees.

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

Kind of a paradox saying you have to correctly develop the hits. If you don't have the ability to coach and develop its very likely you will think it's a miss. Teller is a perfect example of that. See Zay Jones too. 

Couple of late bloomers it happens 

[Billsfan1972]

9 hours ago, Chaos said:

Dawson Knox hard count was innovative. 

He asked for 2-3....  That was one and certainly drew a penalty, but how about a play when the ball was snapped.

[Billsfan1972]

6 hours ago, QCity said:

 

 

Teller was an incredible pick. An absolute grand-slam home run in the 5th round. The kind of pick you talk about for years. A total mauling, road grader guard that this team so desperately needs.

 

Except he wasn't coached and developed properly here. He started half a season for us and looked completely lost. This staff concluded he had a limited ceiling and traded him for peanuts. Cleveland saw something we didn't, and after 1 season there he's been a 2nd team All Pro for the past 2 years. That's right, we got played by Cleveland.

 

Every GM is going to miss more picks than they hit, but you have to correctly develop the hits.

Wait. are you saying Coaching is important as to the development of players????

 

And some FA's too are busts.

 

Again this where we are 24 pages in.  The coaching was terrible vs. Cincy and heck also has an affect on player development.  Maybe that is the reason only developed one All-Pro from the drafts.

[Chugga]

Of course it’s coaching.  We lose our identity in the playoffs.  The Chiefs are Chiefs-lite all season long then as soon as the playoffs hit you know they are going to get creative on offense and sling it around and their defense is going to press and play gritty clingy coverage.  Same thing for the 49ers they are a fantastic regular season team but it almost feels like their defense moves faster and hits harder in the playoffs.  The Eagles leaned heavy into their running QB and running game all playoffs.  Barring Josh’s epic playoff run in 2021, once the playoffs hit I don’t feel like I’m watching “Bills football” let alone an amped up version of it.

[Scott7975]

14 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Allen is awesome. So is Burrow. But at this point, if they traded Diggs and Chase, do you think they have a drop off? Because Mahomes had the best year of his career and is going to the SB.  And he has the worst defense out of the third of them. 
 

mahomes is already an all time great and those guys are a notch below. Hopefully, Allen gets there but this year showed there’s a bigger gap than we thought.

 

Mahomes has better coaching, a better oline by a mile, and still has Kelce.  While his receivers I wouldnt call elite, its not like they are dumpster fires.  They are decent receivers.  

 

Yes, if Diggs and Chase got traded there probably would be some drop off.  Its not like Allen was terrible in 2019 before Diggs got here.  

[newcam2012]

6 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Mahomes has better coaching, a better oline by a mile, and still has Kelce.  While his receivers I wouldnt call elite, its not like they are dumpster fires.  They are decent receivers.  

 

Yes, if Diggs and Chase got traded there probably would be some drop off.  Its not like Allen was terrible in 2019 before Diggs got here.  

I agree with an earlier post of yours where you questioned the merit and debate between the QBs. It's a nice talking point for some but in the end it's pretty insignificant. 

Edited January 31, 2023 by newcam2012

[Royale with Cheese]

I think we don't allow our DL to just go after it.  I think we try to be way too disciplined upfront.  Jerry Hughes had 6.5 sacks in the last 2 years with Buffalo.

He has 9 in his first year with the Texans.  

 

QB's are very comfortable playing us.  Frazier always says that we need to affect the QB....our philosophy doesn't seem to be that.

Our philosophy is keep everyone in front of you, except when we play the Dolphins. 

 

Let the DL unleash.

[BillyBilliams]

I've been pounding the table that Beane needs to get rid of McDermott because he doesn't learn, and he's too loyal to his staff.  I also believe Beane needs to be put on STRICT notice.  He invested SOOOOOOO much on that defensive line.  The fact that we can't get home unless a 33 year old pass rusher (albeit he's a HOF player) is on the field is egregious.  Boogie is no good.  Epenesa is a BUST.  Oliver needs to go, he can't handle the interior without someone like DaQuan Jones eating up the blocks (even then, he doesn't dominate, and when he does, it's sparingly).  Rousseau is a nice piece, but that's it.  Settle is straight garbage.  I don't think he can evaluate either line, or the WR's.  McDermott's refusal to play rookies is EGREGIOUS.  The fact that the Chiefs did it this year and are in the SB because of them pisses me off to no end.  In the meantime, we are standing pat while Moore goes to the Chargers to be their OC, and Fangio goes to the Dolphins to be their DC.  I guess we'll just play soft zone and run 4 Verts.

[BearNorth]

After reading this thread, I took a few minutes.

Pretty much everyone agrees that the offensive line has been in a word "offensive"

 

In the entire history of the franchise [I was 12 yrs old living in Buffalo in 1960], here are the significant honors earned by Buffalo O-Lineman

 

Hall of Fame                     

Billy Shaw                         Guard     1961-1969

Joe DeLamielleure           Guard     1973-1979, 1985

                             

All Pro                 

 

Billy Shaw                           5X          1962, 63, 64, 65, 66

Joe DeLamielleure             3X          1975, 76, 77

Stew Barber                       2X          1963-1964

Kent Hull                             2X          1990,91

Reggie McKenzie               1X           1973 [Thanks to OJ]

                            

Multiple Pro Bowls                        

 

Billy Shaw                          8X 

Ruben Brown                     8X 

Stew Barber                      5X

Joe DeLamielleure            5X   

Kent Hull                            3X      

House Ballard                    2X          

Jason Peters                     2X          

Jim Ritcher                        2X       

 

So out of 310 player years [5 players 62 years], we have had 2 Hall of Famers, 13 All-Pro's, and 35 years of players who went to multiple pro-bowls. I didn't count single pro-bowls, cause it's a popularity contest for the most part.

 

That's an indictment of our scouting department and O-line coaching over almost the entire history of the franchise.  The screwup with Peters is one of the most egregious front office mistakes along with Patulski and Cousineau. 

 

This is not just coaching, this is scouting and drafting effectively