Im convinced its coaching (Chiefs showing how to handle Bengals)

[T master]

23 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

Dont want to get a ban for comparing our team to the teams playing in the GDT so I am putting it here.  Im totally convinced its coaching.  KC its killing that Oline.  Their players arent better than ours.  Jones is a beast but really nobodies outside of that.  The difference is how they actually play the receivers tight and not 10 yards off and back up at the snap.  Burrow cant throw quick because it aint there for free.

 

Same story on offense. Allen may not be Mahomes but he is elite.  Their offensive design and coaching is second to none.  I feel like Dorsey is just backyard football.  A lot of people say "Josh wont take the underneath stuff."  I believe he would if he was coached to and the plays were designed to.  

 

So then with the same coaches that we have if the Chiefs traded us even up Chris Jones, for Ed O, and or Pacheco for Motor or some others even trade you think the Bills would still be the same ?

 

Yes i think we can be more aggressive in some of our coaching schemes for sure but i think players and their individual talent has quite a bit to do with it .

 

I think if Jordan Phillips & Poyer were 100% healthy & Von along with Hyde were on the field the bengals game would have been different .

 

I'm not saying your wrong but it's not totally on just the coaches ! So you are advocating firing someone then i take it ?

[jethro_tull]

23 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

Dont want to get a ban for comparing our team to the teams playing in the GDT so I am putting it here.  Im totally convinced its coaching.  KC its killing that Oline.  Their players arent better than ours.  Jones is a beast but really nobodies outside of that.  The difference is how they actually play the receivers tight and not 10 yards off and back up at the snap.  Burrow cant throw quick because it aint there for free.

 

Same story on offense. Allen may not be Mahomes but he is elite.  Their offensive design and coaching is second to none.  I feel like Dorsey is just backyard football.  A lot of people say "Josh wont take the underneath stuff."  I believe he would if he was coached to and the plays were designed to.  

coaching is a big part of the team's record but it is more complicated than that.  too many moving parts.  

[Boatdrinks]

45 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Oh for sure. That was the difference between their d line pressuring Burrow and ours. Weirdly though, those were his first 2 sacks in 14 postseason games which is wild.  But Jones was huge.

Was huge , but not the difference in the game imo. 

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, finn said:

Just wanted to ask you about this comment, which I hear more and more on this board. Why do you think Mahomes is better than a guy who is bigger, faster, stronger, and a far better runner--and can make every throw Mahomes can make? Is it the, what, two more interceptions Allen has? I know it's not about clutch play, not with Mahomes ending KC's season last year, as well as this year's game against the Bills, with an interception. Maybe he's equal to Allen, but better?

 

The best way I can answer this is my own personal view...

 

I think that its dumb to try and say "this QB is better" "that QB is better" etc.  I personally put them in tiers and view them as equals.  I think Allen and Mahomes are in the same tier.  They are both elite.  Doesnt matter which one someone thinks is better. 

 

They do things in their own ways and have different styles.  For instance, Mahomes may read the field better and hit those short passes more accurately.  Allen can hit any throw on the field from anywhere on the field and even on the run. 

 

At the end of the day, I think they are so close that it doesnt matter.  Put Allen on that KC team instead of Mahomes and I believe they still go to the SBs.  

 

When I said "Allen may not be Mahomes but..."  I more meant it in the sense that the style of play is different, not that I think Mahomes is better or worse.  They are both elite and likely both going to the HoF someday.

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, finn said:

Just wanted to ask you about this comment, which I hear more and more on this board. Why do you think Mahomes is better than a guy who is bigger, faster, stronger, and a far better runner--and can make every throw Mahomes can make? Is it the, what, two more interceptions Allen has? I know it's not about clutch play, not with Mahomes ending KC's season last year, as well as this year's game against the Bills, with an interception. Maybe he's equal to Allen, but better?

It's a results orientated league. Rings and Super Bowl appearence count. Mahomes has the ring and has led his team to Super Bowls. Sure its not all him and its avteam sport. However. QBs like Mahomes and Allen will always get the glory. Until Allen gets a ring Mahomes will alwaus be viewed by most as being better. Might not be correct but it's the truth. Mahomes is a winner. What has Allen won? Not even a AFC title game. 

 

Your thinking is in the minority. Physical traits are great but those are the only assets that make QBs great. See Drew B as an example. I'd but Burrow in that category too. 

[Brand J]

1 hour ago, Billever76 said:

Oline has everything to do with it....no qb does well without a good oline in the playoffs...

No one argued that the OL needs to be improved. Of course a QB needs protection. If you’re insinuating that Allen isn’t throwing to the shorter options because his OL isn’t giving him protection, then I disagree. 

[Brand J]

9 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

It's a results orientated league. Rings and Super Bowl appearence count. Mahomes has the ring and has led his team to Super Bowls. Sure its not all him and its avteam sport. However. QBs like Mahomes and Allen will always get the glory. Until Allen gets a ring Mahomes will alwaus be viewed by most as being better. Might not be correct but it's the truth. Mahomes is a winner. What has Allen won? Not even a AFC title game. 

 

Your thinking is in the minority. Physical traits are great but those are the only assets that make QBs great. See Drew B as an example. I'd but Burrow in that category too. 

It’s also consistency. Someone posted Allen’s 3 lowest QBRs from the season and posted Mahomes and Burrows for comparison’s sake. Allen was far behind the other two, meaning when he’s been bad, he's been really bad. Of course it isn’t all on him, doesn’t help when his receivers are dropping passes, or when Saffold is allowing pressure in less than a second, but it is what it is. Allen’s ceiling is as high as any QB in the league, but his floor is lower than the other two and needs to be raised.

[UKBillFan]

3 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

No one argued that the OL needs to be improved. Of course a QB needs protection. If you’re insinuating that Allen isn’t throwing to the shorter options because his OL isn’t giving him protection, then I disagree. 

I think you’re both right in a way. A dodgy O Line shouldn’t mean short routes are missed. Indeed, they should be the go to as they are safer and quicker options. But that’s for pocket passers, who prefer to stay out and throw. Josh is someone who likes to elongate plays, and try and get the best result for the team. He is unusually good at escaping pressure but, by this time, his default is to look deep. He looks towards the end zone rather than short field. If the O Line held up, as it did pre bye, it’d open up more of the field for Josh to exploit.

[UKBillFan]

2 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

It’s also consistency. Someone posted Allen’s 3 lowest QBRs from the season and posted Mahomes and Burrows for comparison’s sake. Allen was far behind the other two, meaning when he’s been bad, he's been really bad. Of course it isn’t all on him, doesn’t help when his receivers are dropping passes, or when Saffold is allowing pressure in less than a second, but it is what it is. Allen’s ceiling is as high as any QB in the league, but his floor is lower than the other two and needs to be raised.

Mahomes’ lowest: 35.6 (vs SEA); 56.0 (vs BUF); 63.2 (vs LVR) - overall regular season average 77.5

Josh’s lowest: 44.7 (at CHI); 49.5 (vs NYJ); 54.2 (at MIA) - overall regular season average 71.4

Burrow’s lowest: 18.7 (at CLE);  24.1 (vs BAL); 32.7 (at BAL) - overall regular season average 58.6

 

Josh did record a rating of 26.0 in the Wildcard round. Mahomes’ lowest to date was 67.2 yesterday; Burrow’s 43.6 vs BAL.

 

I generally agree with your point about ceiling and floor but Josh’s lowest ratings are it massively different to Mahomes and better than Burrow’s.

[FeelingOnYouboty]

We will never win a Super Bowl playing off coverage like the Bills do. 
 

:13 seconds should’ve been enough to learn that lesson and then that horrible Bengals scheme. Meanwhile the Chiefs man up and their piss poor defense show more guts than our supposed top defense. Depressing!

[C.Biscuit97]

28 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

The best way I can answer this is my own personal view...

 

I think that its dumb to try and say "this QB is better" "that QB is better" etc.  I personally put them in tiers and view them as equals.  I think Allen and Mahomes are in the same tier.  They are both elite.  Doesnt matter which one someone thinks is better. 

 

They do things in their own ways and have different styles.  For instance, Mahomes may read the field better and hit those short passes more accurately.  Allen can hit any throw on the field from anywhere on the field and even on the run. 

 

At the end of the day, I think they are so close that it doesnt matter.  Put Allen on that KC team instead of Mahomes and I believe they still go to the SBs.  

 

When I said "Allen may not be Mahomes but..."  I more meant it in the sense that the style of play is different, not that I think Mahomes is better or worse.  They are both elite and likely both going to the HoF someday.

Allen is awesome. So is Burrow. But at this point, if they traded Diggs and Chase, do you think they have a drop off? Because Mahomes had the best year of his career and is going to the SB.  And he has the worst defense out of the third of them. 
 

mahomes is already an all time great and those guys are a notch below. Hopefully, Allen gets there but this year showed there’s a bigger gap than we thought.

[Simon]

2 hours ago, finn said:

Just wanted to ask you about this comment, which I hear more and more on this board. Why do you think Mahomes is better than a guy who is bigger, faster, stronger, and a far better runner--and can make every throw Mahomes can make? Is it the, what, two more interceptions Allen has? I know it's not about clutch play, not with Mahomes ending KC's season last year, as well as this year's game against the Bills, with an interception. Maybe he's equal to Allen, but better?

 

Mahomes sees the whole field better than anybody else in the world right now.

[Brand J]

9 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

Mahomes’ lowest: 35.6 (vs SEA); 56.0 (vs BUF); 63.2 (vs LVR) - overall regular season average 77.5

Josh’s lowest: 44.7 (at CHI); 49.5 (vs NYJ); 54.2 (at MIA) - overall regular season average 71.4

Burrow’s lowest: 18.7 (at CLE);  24.1 (vs BAL); 32.7 (at BAL) - overall regular season average 58.6

 

Josh did record a rating of 26.0 in the Wildcard round. Mahomes’ lowest to date was 67.2 yesterday; Burrow’s 43.6 vs BAL.

 

I generally agree with your point about ceiling and floor but Josh’s lowest ratings are it massively different to Mahomes and better than Burrow’s.

Odd because those weren’t the numbers that person had posted! Also odd that Mahomes would have a QBR of 35 vs Seattle with a 106.8 rating and a 68 against LV with a rating of 110. I know QBR takes into account actual game play more than the stats, but I don’t know how they reached those statistics. Perhaps it was rating, not QBR, that person had posted. 
 

EDIT: Burrow had a 96 rating to go with his 18 QBR and Josh had a 46.8 rating to go with his 63.9 QBR, so I’m assuming it was the ratings that were posted. 

Edited January 31, 2023 by JayBaller10

[UKBillFan]

4 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

Odd because those weren’t the numbers that person had posted! Also odd that Mahomes would have a QBR of 35 vs Seattle with a 106.8 rating and a 68 against LV with a rating of 110. I know QBR takes into account actual game play more than the stats, but I don’t know how they reached those statistics. Perhaps it was rating, not QBR, that person had posted. 

Had a quick look at passer rating - there is a greater discrepancy there. But have to bear in mind Josh was playing for the bulk of the season with a bad elbow and Buffalo were one of the top teams, if not top, for dropped catches this year.

Edited January 31, 2023 by UKBillFan

[Brand J]

3 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

Had a quick look at passer rating - there is a greater discrepancy there. But have to bear in mind Josh was playing for the bulk of the season with a bad elbow and Buffalo were one of the top teams, if not top, for dropped catches this year.

The elbow was an issue for sure, but it was halftime of that Packers game where he started to look like a different QB. The game that next week against the Jets was extremely rough long before he injured the elbow. And then the MIN game… nevermind. Anyway, the elbow hindered his arm, but he was still making questionable decisions, pre and post injury. The Packers game is seemingly where it started to derail and he never fully recaptured the magic from earlier in the year IMO. All QBs have drops, but yes, Josh had some brutal ones.

[Since1981]

No joke here. Seriously. 
Can you name 2-3 on field, innovative things Bills have done in the past year?

 

Low % of punts on 4th down?

high % nickel defense?

high % QB rush 800 yds?

 

Anything?

Edited January 31, 2023 by Since1981

[Chaos]

Just now, Since1981 said:

No joke here. Seriously. 
Can you name 2-3 on field, innovative things Bills have done in the past year?

 

Low % of punts on 4th down?

high % nickel defense?

 

Anything?

Dawson Knox hard count was innovative. 

[ArtVandalay]

11 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

 

Never seen this breakdown.  Beyond infuriating and completely inexcusable.  Unreal 

The coaching of this team is so horrible.

 

There's a difference between building a culture, assembling talent and scheme/gameplanning. We severely lack in the latter, so much behind other contenders in the league. 

[HappyDays]

3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Pat Mahomes is the current goat. Not a great defense, bum ankle, a bunch of number 3 at best wrs (Kelce is a goat as well), and no running game. Every other qb is a level down from him. Allen and Burrow almost got there but still need to level up. 

 

His not great defense held the Bengals to 20 points and carried him to victory after he personally made big mistakes on several drives in the 2nd half. His #3 WRs and no running game didn't stop Chad Henne from learning a 98 yard TD drive a week before. Sorry but the support system around him is much better. Allen has to play perfect for the Bills to have a chance against good opponents. Mahomes can leave the game for a quarter or singlehandedly cost his team 3 consecutive drives in the 2nd half and still end up the victor. Not taking anything away from his greatness. But greatness still needs support from time to time.

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by HappyDays

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, JayBaller10 said:

It’s also consistency. Someone posted Allen’s 3 lowest QBRs from the season and posted Mahomes and Burrows for comparison’s sake. Allen was far behind the other two, meaning when he’s been bad, he's been really bad. Of course it isn’t all on him, doesn’t help when his receivers are dropping passes, or when Saffold is allowing pressure in less than a second, but it is what it is. Allen’s ceiling is as high as any QB in the league, but his floor is lower than the other two and needs to be raised.

You just answered your previous question to why Mahomes is better in most people's eyes.