Im convinced its coaching (Chiefs showing how to handle Bengals)

[WhoTom]

31 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Watch Vikings game back. All the press you can eat. DBs got toasted. Browns game, toasted. Plenty of film on our DBs getting toasted in press man. Even with pass rush.

 

 

True. And it didn't help that all season, we never had our full complement of starting DBs. For most of the season, we were down to second-stringers, third-stringers, and guys off the street in several DB positions.

 

I think Shaw pointed this out a few weeks ago, but our D is designed to work as a system; when one player goes down, they need to rework the system around the strengths and weaknesses of the fill-in. With our defensive players dropping like flies this season, the coaches were making adjustments every week, often during the games themselves. Looking at the stats, I'd say they got as much out of those players as anyone could reasonably expect.

 

 

[newcam2012]

11 minutes ago, KOKBILLS said:

 

I felt the same way listening to that presser...How much better would the Bills be if they only got a solid double from some of their premium picks? They're rostering a 1st round pick in Oliver that is not performing like a top 10 pick. A 1st Round pick in Elam who, for whatever reason, can't beat out Dane Jackson. Two second round picks in Epenesa and Basham who are just guys. A 3rd round starting RT who has struggled...And then Bernard who is basically a special teamer...

I don't think anyone can validly challenge your post. 

 

My thoughts are completely in line with yours. 

[msw2112]

I wonder of player development is an issue with the Bills' staff.  I realize it's a different sport, but look at the Sabres.  Young guys like Rasmus Dahlin, Tage Thompson and others were lost under coaches like Phil Housely and Ralph Kreguer.  Even veterans like Jeff Skinner and Kyle Oposo were playing themselves out of the league under previous coaches, yet all of them are flourishing under Don Granato.  Could players like Oliver, Epensea, Basham, Elam, etc. improve and flourish with better coaching?  Or maybe they are developing fine, but the scheme the team is employing fails to take advantage of their talents?  A few former Bills have succeeded in other places, such as Wyatt Teller with the Browns, Isiah Hodgins with the Giants, Ray Ray McCloud with the 49ers, etc.  I even see a guy like Taylor Vallejo starting for the Cardinals, but he couldn't make the Bills roster as a backup.

 

In making this point, I realize that the Bills are a 13-3 team and perennial playoff team, while the Sabres have not made the playoffs in more than a decade.  There's a recency bias, as the Bills just lost a playoff game, but have had a lot of success over the last few years, and the Sabres are red hot right now.  But if you watch other teams in the playoffs and how they perform, and how lesser teams have given the Bills very tight games this season (Miami, Jets, Detroit, etc.), you have to wonder if the Bills are maximizing what they have.

[Alphadawg7]

16 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

Dont want to get a ban for comparing our team to the teams playing in the GDT so I am putting it here.  Im totally convinced its coaching.  KC its killing that Oline.  Their players arent better than ours.  Jones is a beast but really nobodies outside of that.  The difference is how they actually play the receivers tight and not 10 yards off and back up at the snap.  Burrow cant throw quick because it aint there for free.

 

Same story on offense. Allen may not be Mahomes but he is elite.  Their offensive design and coaching is second to none.  I feel like Dorsey is just backyard football.  A lot of people say "Josh wont take the underneath stuff."  I believe he would if he was coached to and the plays were designed to.  

 

It 100% is, always has been in the last 3 playoff losses where our "top 5 defense" has given up 107 points and 1403 yards in those 3 consecutive losses in the playoffs.  

 

How the hell Frazier is keeping his job right now is utterly MIND BLOWING.  It is absolutely clear that its a failed scheme against top ranked offenses in the playoffs.  If we run the same D next year, nothing is going to change.  

 

And same goes for Dorsey...he is as much a problem as Frazier.  FIRE THEM NOW.  

 

[Rebel101]

1 hour ago, Reverse Meathead said:

Plain as day.  KC coaches had a plans, schemes, all sorts of things our kindergarten coach and his defensive coordinators could never even imagine.  The more the season comes to a conclusion, McDermott and his staff should follow.

Gotta get rid of beane he’s never firing McDermott 

[Chicken Boo]

16 hours ago, Success said:

 

I was thinking more "hot at one time, a long time ago."  But I'm open to interpretations.

 

 

Well, Madonna successfully reinvented herself multiple times, so there's that.

[Nextmanup]

16 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

Dont want to get a ban for comparing our team to the teams playing in the GDT so I am putting it here.  Im totally convinced its coaching.  KC its killing that Oline.  Their players arent better than ours.  Jones is a beast but really nobodies outside of that.  The difference is how they actually play the receivers tight and not 10 yards off and back up at the snap.  Burrow cant throw quick because it aint there for free.

 

Same story on offense. Allen may not be Mahomes but he is elite.  Their offensive design and coaching is second to none.  I feel like Dorsey is just backyard football.  A lot of people say "Josh wont take the underneath stuff."  I believe he would if he was coached to and the plays were designed to.  

I have often wondered just how much coaching/scheming is a part of NFL success.

 

If you break down ALL teams at this level, they are all composed of pretty much the same commodity: athletic freaks who have been standouts their entire lives, came (mostly) from huge college programs, and have the talent/size/strength/speed to play in the NFL.

 

Some players are better than others, but they are all elite if viewed from a big time college football perspective.

 

If you tell these guys "stand over there, and do this" they will.  If you tell them to do something else, they'll do that too.

 

Look at how we utterly failed to exploit the Bengals weakened OL, and how KC flourish there.

 

Look at how Burrow feasted on our D with the short passing game, yet couldn't get it going against the Chiefs.

 

Is that really b/c our players aren't good compared to the Chiefs players?  No way.

 

Sure, some are marginally better than others, but it's all scheming, coaching, play design, telling guys where to go and when and why.

 

We got our butts kicked in the Bengals game from a coaching/scheming/coordination perspective.

I mean we were ANNIHILATED.

 

And our response to that will be to retain both coordinators, maintain "continuity" and try the same damned stuff again next season in the big playoff game against the great team with the great QB.

 

We'll see if it works any better next year.

 

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Nextmanup

[The Firebaugh Kid]

Oline, Dline, and definitely not giving the receivers a 10 yard cushion. 

[Barnaby Wilde]

1 hour ago, LEBills said:

McDermott and Frazier are too scared of letting up the big play. It was painfully obvious in their two playoffs against KC and last week against the Bengals. 
 

We have Josh freaking Allen so it is ok to be more aggressive because we usually can score with the best of them. Get Josh an OLine and reduce the cushion and hold on routes more in the playoffs. 

Both Cinci and Chiefs coaches were aggressive.  Cinci going for a 4th and 6 and hitting Chase for the TD.  There were no stupid bombs on 3rd and 2.  Wrong time to get aggressive.  

[QCity]

1 hour ago, Reverse Meathead said:

How Do You Watch How KC Prepared 4 Cincinatti & Not Immediately Find McDermott and Frazier Wanting?

 

Plain as day.  KC coaches had a plans, schemes, all sorts of things our kindergarten coach and his defensive coordinators could never even imagine.  The more the season comes to a conclusion, McDermott and his staff should follow.

 

How do they watch? Through thick rose-colored glasses.

 

Get ready for 8 months of "Guys we won 13 games!!!!!"

[Gugny]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

 

Game was over midway through the 3rd Q.  Bengals could have scored alot more. 

 

It was over once they went up 14-0.

 

I agree ... Cincinnati could have EASILY dropped a 50-burger on us that day.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

47 minutes ago, Fleezoid said:

 

So, we'll need a complete overhaul in the defensive backfield, or a new defensive coordinator. because one of those 2 are broken.

 

 

 

Well good news is Micah Hyde, Jordan Poyer, Tre White, and Kaiir Elam didn’t play vs Vikings.

 

But they played press man a lot. Isn’t that strange? 

[GoBills808]

Just now, Gugny said:

 

It was over once they went up 14-0.

 

I agree ... Cincinnati could have EASILY dropped a 50-burger on us that day.

Yes

 

It was over with about 6mins left in the first quarter

[zow2]

1 hour ago, eball said:

I'm not going to get into a whole "thing" about this but KC gave up 20 to Cinci and got a couple of interceptions...we gave up 27 with no turnovers.  The problem for the Bills was not scoring.

 

No doubt the offense failed, but you can’t go down 14-0 with zero resistance, before the snow even started to accumulate on my head. You just can’t, not at home in a huge playoff game. Can’t happen. 

[Barnaby Wilde]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

So you typed out that whole thread title...

but when it came to the word "for", those two extra keystrokes were too much, eh?
 

Yeah, characters are limited on the forum title tab.  You have to adjust phonetically.  lol  

[NewEra]

38 minutes ago, Airseven said:

 

Issues with the defensive scheme have been analyzed to death. But it's a personnel issue too. Chiefs are utilizing one of the best overall draft classes in years. They have talent, depth, and youth everywhere. Quite simply - the Bills are not hitting on draft picks during a period when the cap noose is tightening. I'm not sure they have the personnel to pressure Burrow even if they wanted to.

That’s one way to look at it.

 

another way to look at it:  the chiefs coaching staff does a better job of coaching and cultivating their drafted talent up than the Bills coaching staff.  
 

seems to me like it’s a little of both.  The chiefs have the best coaching staff in the league imo.  

 

[Barnaby Wilde]

45 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

I noticed that too. I see we have have a mix now of those ultra short nondescriptive topics (“Dorsey and Allen” or something like that), and those now popular cryptic two-sentence topics (“The Bills Are Well-Coached. But That’s Part of the Problem”). 
I think we may need a Post-Titling training session: “How to Title a Post. Hint: It’s Not Like This.”

How to write out an informative headline in 13 seconds or less.

[Nextmanup]

One thing that can't be argued is that Frazier likes to run the same damned defensive scheme, pretty much ALL GAME, pretty much EVERY GAME.

I just don't think you can do that at this level, against the best teams with best coaches and best QBs, and expect consistent success...

 

Sure, that will beat a 6 win team in October, but the playoffs aren't about beating 6 win teams in October.

 

McDermott also needs to learn that the regular season is ONLY there to help set your team up for the big push in the playoffs, when it matters.

 

He should have been playing rookies WAY MORE than he did, especially early in the year against weak opponents.

 

Give them experience and teaching when it comes at a cheap price.

 

 

[Billsfan1972]

1 hour ago, Reverse Meathead said:

Plain as day.  KC coaches had a plans, schemes, all sorts of things our kindergarten coach and his defensive coordinators could never even imagine.  The more the season comes to a conclusion, McDermott and his staff should follow.

Because many here are of the opinion that McD walks on water.😉😆

 

Everyone else is to blame.

 

When the Offense doesn't play well it is Dorsey (or prior Daboll) and with the Defense it is always Frazier.  Don't forget we fired the ST last year too.

 

And Beane is to blame for the draft (and being Defense heavy).

[Logic]

7 minutes ago, Reverse Meathead said:

Yeah, characters are limited on the forum title tab.  You have to adjust phonetically.  lol  

Fair enough.

I was just busting balls.

In response to your post: Yeah, it irks me.

The Dolphins, later in the season, seemed to be "figured out", and were not producing much on offense. Then they came to Buffalo, and suddenly they were dynamic again. Yes, the Bills won that game, but still. The games immediately before and after the Bills game, the Dolphins were limp on offense. Against us? Gangbusters.

The Bengals were very effectively limited on offense by the Ravens in the playoffs. Then they played the Bills -- and with a seriously depleted o-line, no less -- and looked completely unstoppable. Then they faced the Chiefs and, sure enough, multiple sacks, only 20 points produced.

Why do teams look stoppable on offense immediately before and after playing the Bills? Why don't the Bills copy what works against these teams on defense, as shown by other teams who played them previously? Why are the Bills so stubborn defensively? Why doesn't a team coached by two undeniably high quality defensive minds in Leslie Frazier an Sean McDermott have more creativity and adaptability on defense? Why do they look great in the regular season and then below average against good offenses in the postseason? If the Bills are going to give up 30+ against the Bengals and Chiefs in the playoffs every year, why bother continuing to have a defensive specialist as a head coach? Why not just find the next young offensive genius and lean into offense?

It's all very infuriating and puzzling, and it's a very valid line of inquiry. I don't have any answers. I'm just venting.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Logic