All GM's Make Mistakes

[Billl]

11 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

Let's look at a AFC counter parts draft from 2020.

 

 

Clyde Edwards-Helaire averaging about the same rushing yards as Devin Singletary but has missed 12 games the last two seasons. C

 

Willie Gay Jr. Became a starter mid way through his rookie season. Put up some good tackles numbers this year. B

 

Lucas Niang 9 offensive snaps since drafted. D-

 

L'Jarius Sneed starter and good not great #2 CB. B

 

Michael Danna lost starting job this season but did get a career 5 sacks.  C

 

Thakarius Keyes no longer a Chief F.

Are you high?  Sneed is a top 15 CB in the league.  That’s an A+ pick for a 4th rounder.  Danna was never a starter, but he’s been a huge contributor who was incredibly raw but is turning into a key piece on a team headed to the Super Bowl.  Even Keyes made the roster of a Super Bowl winning team and saw playing time.   He was the 23 pick in the 7th round.  Jackson would have been a better pick, but that’s not an F.

[The Jokeman]

5 hours ago, Billl said:

Are you high?  Sneed is a top 15 CB in the league.  That’s an A+ pick for a 4th rounder.  Danna was never a starter, but he’s been a huge contributor who was incredibly raw but is turning into a key piece on a team headed to the Super Bowl.  Even Keyes made the roster of a Super Bowl winning team and saw playing time.   He was the 23 pick in the 7th round.  Jackson would have been a better pick, but that’s not an F.

If Sneed is top 15 why are the Chiefs so bad at pass defense? To me he's a sure tackler but not great in coverage. 

[Billl]

1 hour ago, The Jokeman said:

If Sneed is top 15 why are the Chiefs so bad at pass defense? To me he's a sure tackler but not great in coverage. 

Their passing defense isn’t even remotely bad.  They’re 7th in yards per attempt allowed, 2nd in sacks, and their top 4 CBs are Sneed, McDuffie (R), Watson (R), and Williams (R).

[GreggTX]

Rousseau and Teller the only lineman on either side of the ball who were both a Beane draft pick and a solid value. Ford, Basham, Brown, AJE, Oliver, Doyle have all been disappointments.

 Wyatt Teller greatly exceeded expectations, but we let him walk. Beane needs help identifying and keeping top quality linemen. It's his Achilles heel.

[The Jokeman]

2 hours ago, Billl said:

Their passing defense isn’t even remotely bad.  They’re 7th in yards per attempt allowed, 2nd in sacks, and their top 4 CBs are Sneed, McDuffie (R), Watson (R), and Williams (R).

19th in passing yards against. 

[alg]

On 1/29/2023 at 5:23 PM, Mango said:

A huge part of the issues heading into 2023 isn’t a single draft pick or hefty contract. It’s the sum of a number of iffy draft picks and contracts. 
 

So right, all GM’s make mistakes, but Beane has put us in a bit of a hole. He’ll have a chance to fix it. But I’m not sure how many chances he should and will get to do so. 

Beane is a Needs drafter. IMHO, his formulas push player position rankings to where we reach for the JAG OL this year and miss the All Pro WR, and next year pass on the All Pro OL for a JAG DL. This is the only way I can understand how he actually makes good late round picks - where he dumps his awful algorithms.

 

Everyone says Diggs was a great trade. I suppose it was. Especially for Beane. Does his history suggest he would have picked Jefferson, already a more acclaimed WR, if he kept the pick? 

[The Jokeman]

Just now, alg said:

Beane is a Needs drafter. IMHO, his formulas push player position rankings to where we reach for the JAG OL this year and miss the All Pro WR, and next year pass on the All Pro OL for a JAG DL. This is the only way I can understand how he actually makes good late round picks - where he dumps his awful algorithms.

 

Everyone says Diggs was a great trade. I suppose it was. Especially for Beane. Does his history suggest he would have picked Jefferson, already a more acclaimed WR, if he kept the pick? 

Nobody knows if Jefferson be producing the same here in Buffalo as he has in Minnesota, as no dome and a lot more pressure to produce with an up and coming QB vs a veteran like Cousins. 

[BADOLBILZ]

9 hours ago, Billl said:

As long as we’re talking about things people don’t want to hear, Whaley was WAY more responsible for the recent run of success than he’s given credit for, arguably more than Beane.  On his way out the door, he drafted White and Milano while stacking up the picks that allowed Beane to trade up for Allen.  Yes, Beane chose correctly and deserves credit for that, but really his success boiled down to choosing Allen over Rosen.  Darnold and Mayfield were off the board.  
 

Had the Browns or Jets taken Allen, which easily could have happened given the fact that he was in the discussion, Beane would be long gone by now.  He’s had 4 drafts in which to pick players without the benefit of extra first round picks, and he’s come up mostly empty.

 

There is actually some debate over whether Whaley had much to do with the Bills 2017 draft choices.   Whaley reportedly had little input in the choices.  Carolina at the time seemed to think that McD was using their draft board.   There was a feeling that McBeane thought they were being clever by having Beane stay with Carolina until after the draft.

 

But regardless of who was pulling the strings........trading the pick to an AFC rival with Mahomes on the board was obviously the worst move the organization has ever made on draft day and actually neither of the picks acquired were used to trade up for Allen.   The Mahomes traded netted them Tre White and Tremaine Edmunds.

 

Beane pulled off a couple cheap deals to move up for Allen and deserves a lot of credit for that but no doubt a lot of mistakes were made and not enough value has been extracted in UFA or the draft since.

 

 

[uticaclub]

On 1/29/2023 at 1:28 PM, Billznut said:

He played Benford because White wasn’t playing. And they put in Benford a 6th rounder over 1st rounder Elam. They had no one else to play. He choose Peterman to start that season over Allen. And then decided to put Allen in because it was Peterman. You’re actually helping me prove my point. 

Having Peterman has the “vet” for Allens rookie year was another dumb decision. There is just no way Beane & McDermott are here in 2023 if Denver picks Allen.

[Albany,n.y.]

11 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

I didn't hear one word ever from Beane about Allen's rushing ability.  

 

But you're overlooking the point here, sure, Allen ran some at Wyoming, but it wasn't to the extent that he has here.  

Josh actually averaged more rushes per game in college than he has in the NFL.  In his 2016 season he rushed 142 times in 14 games for 523 yards scoring 7 rushing TDs and also caught a pass for a TD, scoring a total of 8 TDs that season.  His rushing stats were down his final year, as were most of his stats, but he still averaged over 8 rushes per game.  In the NFL his yards per attempt are much higher but so are all his stats compared to his college days.  

 

 

 

 

[PBF81]

9 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Josh actually averaged more rushes per game in college than he has in the NFL.  In his 2016 season he rushed 142 times in 14 games for 523 yards scoring 7 rushing TDs and also caught a pass for a TD, scoring a total of 8 TDs that season.  His rushing stats were down his final year, as were most of his stats, but he still averaged over 8 rushes per game.  In the NFL his yards per attempt are much higher but so are all his stats compared to his college days.  

 

Yes, I realize that.  But he also averaged 3.7 ypc that season.  In his Jr. (last) year, that dropped to 2.2 ypc.  Meaning that it was most scramble runs for short gains, sneaks, etc.  He didn't run like he does now in college. 

 

We've digressed from my original point tho, his rushing ability, which again, is a huge part of his game and defines him to a large extent, is not something that Beane mentioned when alluding to Allen's potential.  It was Allen's arm.  If we had to rely exclusively on Allen's arm, really more his decision-making (or is it play-calling?), then as a pure pocket passer there's work to do and progress to be made.  Most of us here realize that he regressed in that way from '21 to this past season.   

 

I blame it on coaching, i.e., play-calling, the lack of ability of McD to control the flow of the game, among other things.  But nonetheless.  

 

Again, having said all that, when healthy, there isn't a QB that I'd rather have than Allen these days.  But there's no way Beane knew that he'd be this good.  

[Albany,n.y.]

2 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Yes, I realize that.  But he also averaged 3.7 ypc that season.  In his Jr. (last) year, that dropped to 2.2 ypc.  Meaning that it was most scramble runs for short gains, sneaks, etc.  He didn't run like he does now in college. 

 

We've digressed from my original point tho, his rushing ability, which again, is a huge part of his game and defines him to a large extent, is not something that Beane mentioned when alluding to Allen's potential.  It was Allen's arm.  If we had to rely exclusively on Allen's arm, really more his decision-making (or is it play-calling?), then as a pure pocket passer there's work to do and progress to be made.  Most of us here realize that he regressed in that way from '21 to this past season.   

 

I blame it on coaching, i.e., play-calling, the lack of ability of McD to control the flow of the game, among other things.  But nonetheless.  

 

Again, having said all that, when healthy, there isn't a QB that I'd rather have than Allen these days.  But there's no way Beane knew that he'd be this good.  

Beane didn't have to mention it. All anyone had to do was look at him play. Mayock mentioned it on draft day.  If you think Beane didn't know that Josh had exceptional athleticism after watching hours & hours of tape because you didn't hear him say anything (which could mean anything, maybe he said something & you just flat out missed it. Do you hear everything he says 24/7? ) you have a pretty poor take.  

[dave mcbride]

2 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

19th in passing yards against. 

That’s because teams get behind and have to throw the ball nearly every play. They were 4th in defensive ypa and 30th in number of passes thrown against (meaning only 2 more teams had a larger number of passes thrown against them). https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/kan/2022.htm

48 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Yes, I realize that.  But he also averaged 3.7 ypc that season.  In his Jr. (last) year, that dropped to 2.2 ypc.  Meaning that it was most scramble runs for short gains, sneaks, etc.  He didn't run like he does now in college. 

 

We've digressed from my original point tho, his rushing ability, which again, is a huge part of his game and defines him to a large extent, is not something that Beane mentioned when alluding to Allen's potential.  It was Allen's arm.  If we had to rely exclusively on Allen's arm, really more his decision-making (or is it play-calling?), then as a pure pocket passer there's work to do and progress to be made.  Most of us here realize that he regressed in that way from '21 to this past season.   

 

I blame it on coaching, i.e., play-calling, the lack of ability of McD to control the flow of the game, among other things.  But nonetheless.  

 

Again, having said all that, when healthy, there isn't a QB that I'd rather have than Allen these days.  But there's no way Beane knew that he'd be this good.  

Folks do realize that in college sacks are considered qb rushing plays, right??

1 hour ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Josh actually averaged more rushes per game in college than he has in the NFL.  In his 2016 season he rushed 142 times in 14 games for 523 yards scoring 7 rushing TDs and also caught a pass for a TD, scoring a total of 8 TDs that season.  His rushing stats were down his final year, as were most of his stats, but he still averaged over 8 rushes per game.  In the NFL his yards per attempt are much higher but so are all his stats compared to his college days.  

 

 

 

 

Again, sacks count as qb rushing plays in college.

Edited January 31, 2023 by dave mcbride

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Beane didn't have to mention it. All anyone had to do was look at him play. Mayock mentioned it on draft day.  If you think Beane didn't know that Josh had exceptional athleticism after watching hours & hours of tape because you didn't hear him say anything (which could mean anything, maybe he said something & you just flat out missed it. Do you hear everything he says 24/7? ) you have a pretty poor take.  

 

Maybe, but I don't recall ANY statements about Allen's ability to run, as he has, when they drafted him.  Athleticism, yes, but they say that about a lot of QBs.  There are a number of incredibly athletic QBs in the league today.  

 

Either way, happy to look at draft statements by Beane about that, I simply don't remember hearing any.  

[Billl]

4 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

19th in passing yards against. 

So you're of the opinion that these two drafts are roughly equal?

 

Clyde Edwards-Helaire

Willie Gay Jr

Lucas Niang

L'Jarius Sneed

Michael Danna

BoPete Keyes

 

vs

 

AJ Epenesa

Zack Moss

Gabe Davis

Tyler Bass

Isaiah Hodgins

Dane Jackson

 

 

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Folks do realize that in college sacks are considered qb rushing plays, right??

 

I did not know this, thanks for the heads up.  

[The Jokeman]

8 minutes ago, Billl said:

So you're of the opinion that these two drafts are roughly equal?

 

Clyde Edwards-Helaire

Willie Gay Jr

Lucas Niang

L'Jarius Sneed

Michael Danna

BoPete Keyes

 

vs

 

AJ Epenesa

Zack Moss

Gabe Davis

Tyler Bass

Isaiah Hodgins

Dane Jackson

 

 

I'd give the Chiefs a B+  on their draft and the Bills a B-