A QB and Coaching thought exercise

[Chaos]

I am a huge Josh Allen fan. I think if you put him on any NFL team, the minimum expecation for that team would be to make the playoffs.  The expectation for more than half the teams would be to advance to the divisional playoff round.  For each of the current final four teams, the expecation if Allen was their QB would be super bowl appearance minimum.  He is an NFL force of nature.  
 

On a long drive yesterday the people in the car were discussing what would have happened in each of our games in two different scenarios. One swap our components QB with Allen.   The second scenario (separate from the first) is how would we have faired if we swapped game day coaches. 

This is an approximate summary of our discussion:

 

We concluded swapping coaches would have likely resulted in the Bills winning the three regular season games we lost.  We could not agree on whether swapping Taylor and McDermott alone, would have led to a playoff win for the Bills.  I think it would have because I can't imagine Bills coaching figuring out how to defend Burrows with the make shift o line. But others thought we were so dominated that that would not have been enough. 

On the swap Allen alone side of the ledger, there were 8 games we felt the Bills actually won that we would have lost if QBs were swapped.  We had some pretty bad QB opponents, and its hard to see the Frazier offense stopping Allen on most teams. 

People will certainly have different opinions.  But I would be most interested in which specific games you disagree with our speculation. 

Side note:  Bitter that the Bills are not playing today
 

Edited January 29, 2023 by Chaos

[Nextmanup]

Josh has put this team on his back many times and won the game for the team.

He has also lost the game for the team a few times, usually with his "sugar high" mistakes and turnovers.

 

Don't ask me to name the games or count them, I don't remember which was which! 

 

Josh's good outweighs his bad and overall, he's more than good enough to win a SB, so why evaluate beyond that?

 

If your post is a way of saying we would benefit from SMARTER, BETTER in-game coaching, I couldn't agree more with you.  I have been beating that drum since McDermott came here....and Dorsey should be replaced THIS offseason.

 

They can either do it NOW, or NEXT YEAR, after another burned year in Josh's window.

 

 

[US Egg]

So let’s pretend the opposing coach had coached the Bills?

 

Can we do that next with QB’s?
 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, Chaos said:

I am a huge Josh Allen fan. I think if you put him on any NFL team, the minimum expecation for that team would be to make the playoffs.  The expectation for more than half the teams would be to advance to the divisional playoff round.  For each of the current final four teams, the expecation if Allen was their QB would be super bowl appearance minimum.  He is an NFL force of nature.  
 

On a long drive yesterday the people in the car were discussing what would have happened in each of our games in two different scenarios. One swap our components QB with Allen.   The second scenario (separate from the first) is how would we have faired if we swapped game day coaches. 

This is an approximate summary of our discussion:

 

We concluded swapping coaches would have likely resulted in the Bills winning the three regular season games we lost.  We could not agree on whether swapping Taylor and McDermott alone, would have led to a playoff win for the Bills.  I think it would have because I can't imagine Bills coaching figuring out how to defend Burrows with the make shift o line. But others thought we were so dominated that that would not have been enough. 

On the swap Allen alone side of the ledger, there were 8 games we felt the Bills actually won that we would have lost if QBs were swapped.  We had some pretty bad QB opponents, and its hard to see the Frazier offense stopping Allen on most teams. 

People will certainly have different opinions.  But I would be most interested in which specific games you disagree with our speculation. 

Side note:  Bitter that the Bills are not playing today
 

So bills coaching is net equal or negative as compared to every team they played? That’s funny. 

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, Chaos said:

I am a huge Josh Allen fan. I think if you put him on any NFL team, the minimum expecation for that team would be to make the playoffs.  The expectation for more than half the teams would be to advance to the divisional playoff round.  For each of the current final four teams, the expecation if Allen was their QB would be super bowl appearance minimum.  He is an NFL force of nature.  
 

On a long drive yesterday the people in the car were discussing what would have happened in each of our games in two different scenarios. One swap our components QB with Allen.   The second scenario (separate from the first) is how would we have faired if we swapped game day coaches. 

This is an approximate summary of our discussion:

 

We concluded swapping coaches would have likely resulted in the Bills winning the three regular season games we lost.  We could not agree on whether swapping Taylor and McDermott alone, would have led to a playoff win for the Bills.  I think it would have because I can't imagine Bills coaching figuring out how to defend Burrows with the make shift o line. But others thought we were so dominated that that would not have been enough. 

On the swap Allen alone side of the ledger, there were 8 games we felt the Bills actually won that we would have lost if QBs were swapped.  We had some pretty bad QB opponents, and its hard to see the Frazier offense stopping Allen on most teams. 

People will certainly have different opinions.  But I would be most interested in which specific games you disagree with our speculation. 

Side note:  Bitter that the Bills are not playing today
 

Here’s another thought process for you
 

Put Josh Allen on the Bengals, throwing to Ja’Marr Chase and tee Higgins and throwing against our defense

 

Imagine Josh Allen throwing to wide-open wide, receivers all day sitting behind a line, they gave him all kinds of protection, and was opening up holes for the running game for Joe Mixon

 

How do you think Josh would’ve fared

 

 

[GunnerBill]

Well that was a waste of 2 minutes reading. 

 

I think the takeaway was Chaos doesn't like Sean McDermott. 

 

I recommend playing shag, marry, kill on your next long car journey.

Edited January 29, 2023 by GunnerBill

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Well that was a waste of 2 minutes reading. 

 

I think the takeaway was Chaos doesn't like Sean McDermott. 

 

I recommend playing shag, marry, kill on your next long car journey.

Bit harsh. McDermott should go, and Beane too, depending on this draft. If he's still at it with terrible first and second round picks.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Bit harsh. McDermott should go, and Beane too, depending on this draft. If he's still at it with terrible first and second round picks.

 

 

You can go on the same journey.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You can go on the same journey.

So, can I count you thrilled with the outcome of the process?

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

So, can I count you thrilled with the outcome of the process?

 

You can count me as not being ready to declare Saleh, McDaniel and O'Connell better coaches than McDermott - yes.

 

The process is frayed at the edges. But it isn't ready for the trash. The regime is still, for now, the right one.

[Ya Digg?]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You can count me as not being ready to declare Saleh, McDaniel and O'Connell better coaches than McDermott - yes.

 

The process is frayed at the edges. But it isn't ready for the trash. The regime is still, for now, the right one.

Yeah I don’t get all of the love for Saleh and McDaniel, not sure how flipping those coaches would have gotten the Bills a win in those games. What has Saleh shown in his 2 years that makes him as great a coach as people claim? Look at what happened to McDaniel as soon as someone figured out how to stop his offense! 

[GoBills808]

2 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Josh has put this team on his back many times and won the game for the team.

He has also lost the game for the team a few times, usually with his "sugar high" mistakes and turnovers.

 

Don't ask me to name the games or count them, I don't remember which was which! 

 

Josh's good outweighs his bad and overall, he's more than good enough to win a SB, so why evaluate beyond that?

 

If your post is a way of saying we would benefit from SMARTER, BETTER in-game coaching, I couldn't agree more with you.  I have been beating that drum since McDermott came here....and Dorsey should be replaced THIS offseason.

 

They can either do it NOW, or NEXT YEAR, after another burned year in Josh's window.

 

 

Would love to get the games Allen has lost us

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

25 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Here’s another thought process for you
 

Put Josh Allen on the Bengals, throwing to Ja’Marr Chase and tee Higgins and throwing against our defense

 

Imagine Josh Allen throwing to wide-open wide, receivers all day sitting behind a line, they gave him all kinds of protection, and was opening up holes for the running game for Joe Mixon

 

How do you think Josh would’ve fared

 

 

 

 The difference between the Bengals and the Bills is Joe is never been asked to carry the Bengals in the postseason. He's never asked to do more than his fair share. In 6 playoff games Burrow has less passing tds than Allen did in just 2 games last year(8 vs 9). Their offense has averaged just 23 ppg in the playoffs, never scoring more than 27 in any game and yet they're 5-1.

 

 It's because their defense has given up an average of only 18 ppg and never surrendering more than 24 points in those games. Last year their fg kicker was 14/14 on fgs. Burrow receives far more help than Allen does in the playoffs and is never asked to be super human.

 

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You can count me as not being ready to declare Saleh, McDaniel and O'Connell better coaches than McDermott - yes.

 

The process is frayed at the edges. But it isn't ready for the trash. The regime is still, for now, the right one.

Follow up question:

 

When do you bin the regime? What's it gonna take 

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Follow up question:

 

When do you bin the regime? What's it gonna take 

It's too late imo

 

Just have to hope Allen can carry them to one before he retires at this point

[Chaos]

32 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Well that was a waste of 2 minutes reading. 

 

I think the takeaway was Chaos doesn't like Sean McDermott. 

 

I recommend playing shag, marry, kill on your next long car journey.

Your response is truly useless. 

5 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 The difference between the Bengals and the Bills is Joe is never been asked to carry the Bengals in the postseason. He's never asked to do more than his fair share. In 6 playoff games Burrow has less passing tds than Allen did in just 2 games last year(8 vs 9). Their offense has averaged just 23 ppg in the playoffs, never scoring more than 27 in any game and yet they're 5-1.

 

 It's because their defense has given up an average of only 18 ppg and never surrendering more than 24 points in those games. Last year their fg kicker was 14/14 on fgs. Burrow receives far more help than Allen does in the playoffs and is never asked to be super human.

 

 

 

A main point is that there is literally (in the real use of the world literally) no possible meaningful increase in production from the QB position for the Bills.  We need to pray he can continue at this level. (This is also true of the Chiefs).  If the coaching staff can't get it together to win championships with Allen as QB, they will not be capable with any QB. True story. 

1 hour ago, I am the egg man said:

So let’s pretend the opposing coach had coached the Bills?

 

Can we do that next with QB’s?
 

50% of the original post is about QB's.  not sure what your point is. 

[US Egg]

3 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Your response is truly useless.

…..like many of your threads.

[Chaos]

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

It's too late imo

 

Just have to hope Allen can carry them to one before he retires at this point

Allen has the height and arm and brain to transition to a pure pocket passer as he ages.  We realistically have 10 more years of high end QB play from Allen.   Best case scenario, McDermott wins multiple super bowls with Allen, starting next year.  Worst case scenario, we are Jeff Fishered with McDermott. 

[PBF81]

3 hours ago, Chaos said:

On the swap Allen alone side of the ledger, there were 8 games we felt the Bills actually won that we would have lost if QBs were swapped.  

 

Keep in mind that without our Allen-led offense, opposing offenses would have scored much more and logged more yards than they did due to our inability to stay on the field offensively.  

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Follow up question:

 

When do you bin the regime? What's it gonna take 

 

When I think it had run its course. I understand why others are there. I am not. 

 

But Chaos could have just said "this a thread saying I want McDermott out" rather than the pseudo thought process nonsense.