Your Offseason Upgrades to the OLine

[Simon]

1 minute ago, Process said:

Did brown play any guard in college?

 

I don't know but I very much doubt it.

He's just not a Tackle in this league and moving him inside is the best way to keep him on the field, imo.

[SCBills]

28 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Trade Ed for an “all pro” guard?  🤣 

 

We won’t be that lucky, but that all pro guard will want 15-20M a year.  
 

Edit: sorry-  I just don’t think adding 15-20M OL will be part of our plan.  

I agree it may not .. but Bengals and Chiefs both watched their QBs get rocked behind bad line play and went out and invested heavy in OL.  
 

Then again, I’m rapidly losing faith in our FO to keep pace with those two organizations.  
 

Ours are better than most.. but seem a step behind the two we’re chasing.  

 

By shear will.. Allen gives us a chance against KC, but Cincy is just running laps around us at the moment. 

[aristocrat]

Keep Morse,draft a center and right tackle in 2nd and third round and play the center at guard for a year

[Billz4ever]

11 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

A young Guard who becomes an All Pro once here.  Basically a Wyatt Teller reversal 

OK, again sounds great.

 

Who's the team trading us this guy who doesn't know what they have and who do you have in mind?

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I agree it may not .. but Bengals and Chiefs both watched their QBs get rocked behind bad line play and went out and invested heavy in OL.  
 

Then again, I’m rapidly losing faith in our FO to keep pace with those two organizations.  
 

Ours are better than most.. but seem a step behind the two we’re chasing.  

 

By shear will.. Allen gives us a chance against KC, but Cincy is just running laps around us at the moment. 

The bengals invested in the OL and failed. None of their success is due to their investment their OL.  
 

the chiefs spent more than most on their OL-  we won’t even attempt to do what they did.  And Mahomes is still running for his life vs the better defenses. 
 

but I hear ya.  We’re currently 2B now, sitting behind 1A and 1B.  Mainly because our OL is complete trash. Beanes biggest collaboration of failures on that side of the ball. 

[nosejob]

LT Dawkins

LG bates

C Morse

RG Ben Powers coming off a rookie contract with the Ravens heading to pro bowl level.

RT Mike McGlinchey from the Niners. Our one big splash on the line.

 

Brown and Doyle swing. Draft BPA  along the line (at least 2) . Pretty much get rid of everyone else, except maybe Ike.

This instantly establishes a quality starting 5. Plus a couple of good picks should do it. Beane can find the money.

 

Edit: IMO, I tend to believe this was Beane's plan. First he got the QB, and did a lot of horsetrading to do it.

Then he drafted to bolster the Dline after bringing in a few other pieces, ie. Diggs , Bease etc.

He then went a step further with Von.

Now it's time to build an Oline. I think he believes in the need to stagger contracts for continued success. We'll see how it goes.

Edited January 27, 2023 by nosejob

[PrimeTime101]

53 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

It's very clear that the current offensive line is simply not good enough.  
Unfortunately, I don't expect Beane to make many significant changes.
But, I believe they are needed. Here is what I would do

 

 

 

1. ) if Orlando Brown hits the market, try to sign him.  (Unlikely & $$$)

2.) Trade Ed Oliver for an All Pro Guard.   (Let Saffold walk)

3.) Draft a C in the first three rounds. Hope that he's comparable to Creed Humphrey (Release Mitch Morse - Concussions + cap savings)
 

4.) Ryan Bates starts at RG. Try Spencer Brown at Guard as depth (I know he's taller than most Guards, whatever)
 

5.) If #1 doesn't happen - Trade a 2nd Round pick (23 or 24) for a very good RT  OR  Draft a RT in the first two rounds. 

 

 

LT - Dawkins

LG - All Pro via Trade
C - Rookie top 3 rounds
RG - Bates / S. Brown
RT - O. Brown / Very Good Starter via Trade / Rookie top 2 rounds

 

I think it's absolutely critical to add at least 1 high caliber player to the OLine 
 

 

welcome to the land of the clueless.

[Warriorspikes51]

Just now, PrimeTime101 said:

welcome to the land of the clueless.

Thanks for your insightful feedback.

[PrimeTime101]

1 minute ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Thanks for your insightful feedback.

Bro.. For starters there is a COUPLE topics on this very thing.

If all you want to do is trade for old. be my guest and let the offensive line show the rest.

[Bongo]

25 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

I don't know but I very much doubt it.

He's just not a Tackle in this league and moving him inside is the best way to keep him on the field, imo.

Simon, what do you think is keeping Brown from playing tackle better? Do you think it’s mental or his back issues? He is so frustrating. We typically talk short arms or slow feet for moving tackles inside but he had the highest RAS ever coming out. Heck, he should be an all pro left tackle yet alone right tackle given his RAS score. What happened?

 

signed - Frustrated With The Trenches

[John from Riverside]

58 minutes ago, 947 said:

Nobody is trading away an All-Pro Guard. If they did, it would take a whole lot more than a rotational DT with 1 year left on his deal at $10M to get him. Oliver would probably only net a 3rd round pick at best.

 

I want to add Dalton Risner in FA for RG, move Bates to LG, draft a RT in rounds 1-2. If Morse retires, Bates moves to C, and then we need 2 Guards & a RT. Would probably require grabbing 2 of them via FA.

This sounds a lot more feasible
 

[Success]

I don't know enough about O-line schemes.  But how much can our issues be tied to coaching?  I look at what Scarnecchia did for years in NE, and then also what Cincy did with 3 starters out, and 1 playing hurt.  

 

I feel like we don't need THAT much of an upgrade in personnel.  Dawkins & Morse are both very good, and I think Brown is still developing.  Bates & Boettger are solid.

 

[John from Riverside]

I think we need to take it one step further and add someone to our player personnel that specializes in finding offensive line talent both in the draft and free agency
 

Find that second or third round pick they can start immediately and play multiple positions. Find the guy that fits the scheme they need to be able to pass block awesomely first they need to be able to move. They need to be able to block at the second level, and I need to keep from getting blown off the line of scrimmage.

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

It's very clear that the current offensive line is simply not good enough.  
Unfortunately, I don't expect Beane to make many significant changes.
But, I believe they are needed. Here is what I would do

 

 

 

1. ) if Orlando Brown hits the market, try to sign him.  (Unlikely & $$$)

2.) Trade Ed Oliver for an All Pro Guard.   (Let Saffold walk)

3.) Draft a C in the first three rounds. Hope that he's comparable to Creed Humphrey (Release Mitch Morse - Concussions + cap savings)
 

4.) Ryan Bates starts at RG. Try Spencer Brown at Guard as depth (I know he's taller than most Guards, whatever)
 

5.) If #1 doesn't happen - Trade a 2nd Round pick (23 or 24) for a very good RT  OR  Draft a RT in the first two rounds. 

 

 

LT - Dawkins

LG - All Pro via Trade
C - Rookie top 3 rounds
RG - Bates / S. Brown
RT - O. Brown / Very Good Starter via Trade / Rookie top 2 rounds

 

I think it's absolutely critical to add at least 1 high caliber player to the OLine 
 

 

 

I do wish we had a "face palm" reaction emoji.

We have two good OL - Dawkins and Morse.  So of course, your plan calls for cutting one and moving the other. 

 

1) If KC can't re-sign Orlando Brown, the only reason is going to be because they can't meet his salary demands.  But the only reason Brown is in KC in the first place is because he wanted to play LT and the Ravens didn't want to accomodate that.  So this plan would involve relocating Dawkins to RT, where he hasn't played.  Nice start.
2) Why don't we trade Ed Oliver for a top WR like DeAndre Hopkins while we're at it?  Again, if someone is trading an all-pro guard, the reason is because that player is (like Ed) on the last year of his contract and the team either a) thinks he's falling off and no longer worth his salt or b) knows it can't meet his contract demands and wants something.  But usually, teams don't trade all-pro guards.

3)  "Hope" is not a sound player development strategy, especially for C, the most important position on the OL.  I'm 100% in favor of drafting the best C/G we can find, but you don't move on from Morse until you know you have someone who can do the job behind him. 

 

Beane needs to find his cap savings somewhere else than our OL.

 

Here

 

23 minutes ago, Success said:

I don't know enough about O-line schemes.  But how much can our issues be tied to coaching?  I look at what Scarnecchia did for years in NE, and then also what Cincy did with 3 starters out, and 1 playing hurt.  

 

I feel like we don't need THAT much of an upgrade in personnel.  Dawkins & Morse are both very good, and I think Brown is still developing.  Bates & Boettger are solid.

 

I have that concern about coaching.  Kromer was hailed as a big name hire by McDermott last season, but I'm not sure we got what we wanted there.

 

I do think we need a significant upgrade in personnel.  Even if we grant Brown a "pass" as still developing/hampered in his off season by injury, I think we need to have a better "plan B" at RT than Quessenberry, and I think Bates and Boettger are solid depth.

 

We need what we hoped we were getting from Saffold.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Beck Water

[Beck Water]

52 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

I don't know but I very much doubt it.

He's just not a Tackle in this league and moving him inside is the best way to keep him on the field, imo.

 

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but isn't one of the criticisms of Brown, that he doesn't get enough knee bend?

 

So moving him to guard, which would require more knee bend, would seem like a disaster.

 

When Beane was talking about Brown in his presser (how he had to get surgery and missed the off season and he is still developing) I was having awful flashbacks to the "wrong road" of Cody Ford and how Beane talked about him.

[In Summary]

• Bills need their draft picks, and they need them to hit so they can have starters on rookie contracts.  Fantasy/reckless to trade away high draft picks for expensive free agents you can't afford.  Bills need to draft a rookie OL and learn how to play him.  Other teams do.
• Bills effectively need at least two interior OL given that Morse is a high concussion risk.  Center too important to just have a backup that can only shotgun snap it.  They could replace both guards and center in an attempt to improve and get younger and I'd totally be OK with that.
• Get better guards and your tackles look better.  Give Brown a full summer to heal and recover and I think he's better next year.
• Perhaps most importantly, figure out what your offense and blocking scheme are and what players you need to execute them.  I don't feel OL coach, OC, and head coach had that together.  Do we go 90's dolphins and look for pass blocking only?  Do we want at least one side of the line to be capable gap blocking guys who can move DTs when needed?  Why was Teller thought so little of and who assessed him as low value?

 

 

[Beck Water]

24 minutes ago, Bongo said:

Simon, what do you think is keeping Brown from playing tackle better? Do you think it’s mental or his back issues? He is so frustrating. We typically talk short arms or slow feet for moving tackles inside but he had the highest RAS ever coming out. Heck, he should be an all pro left tackle yet alone right tackle given his RAS score. What happened?

 

signed - Frustrated With The Trenches

 

I think it shows the difference between athleticism during tests, vs. playing speed.

 

He seems to have very slow feet, and/or slow mental reactions.  Speed rushers treat him like he's standing still.

 

I think he looked better next to Williams than he did next to Bates.  I'm not sure where the problem is but pass-offs seem slow.

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

It's very clear that the current offensive line is simply not good enough.  
Unfortunately, I don't expect Beane to make many significant changes.
But, I believe they are needed. Here is what I would do

 

 

 

1. ) if Orlando Brown hits the market, try to sign him.  (Unlikely & $$$)

2.) Trade Ed Oliver for an All Pro Guard.   (Let Saffold walk)

3.) Draft a C in the first three rounds. Hope that he's comparable to Creed Humphrey (Release Mitch Morse - Concussions + cap savings)
 

4.) Ryan Bates starts at RG. Try Spencer Brown at Guard as depth (I know he's taller than most Guards, whatever)
 

5.) If #1 doesn't happen - Trade a 2nd Round pick (23 or 24) for a very good RT  OR  Draft a RT in the first two rounds. 

 

 

LT - Dawkins

LG - All Pro via Trade
C - Rookie top 3 rounds
RG - Bates / S. Brown
RT - O. Brown / Very Good Starter via Trade / Rookie top 2 rounds

 

I think it's absolutely critical to add at least 1 high caliber player to the OLine 
 

 

You’re either hilarious or wasted. 
 

1. Orlando Brown’s MV is $22.4M per Spotrac. 5 years, $112M is not happening - especially not for a RT. Playing him at LT and moving Dawkins to RT is also a bad plan. 

2. If we could move Oliver at all, it would be for either a similarly performing player with a similar contract situation or a flip of late picks. An All Pro? Not even an All Pro long snapper. 
 

3. I wholeheartedly agree with drafting a C this year. I would not rush Morse off the team this year though. Lots of responsibilities for a C, including making line calls and not getting shoved back into their FQB. 
 

4. Sure on Bates. Brown should stay at OT, but he should get competition for the starting job. 
 

5. I’m certainly good with using a pick on a RT.

Edited January 27, 2023 by BarleyNY

[PrimeTime101]

43 minutes ago, nosejob said:

LT Dawkins

LG bates

C Morse

RG Ben Powers coming off a rookie contract with the Ravens heading to pro bowl level.

RT Mike McGlinchey from the Niners. Our one big splash on the line.

 

Brown and Doyle swing. Draft BPA  along the line (at least 2) . Pretty much get rid of everyone else, except maybe Ike.

This instantly establishes a quality starting 5. Plus a couple of good picks should do it. Beane can find the money.

 

Edit: IMO, I tend to believe this was Beane's plan. First he got the QB, and did a lot of horsetrading to do it.

Then he drafted to bolster the Dline after bringing in a few other pieces, ie. Diggs , Bease etc.

He then went a step further with Von.

Now it's time to build an Oline. I think he believes in the need to stagger contracts for continued success. We'll see how it goes.

Finally, an idea I absolutely love. but how are we going to afford that RG and RT?

[Beck Water]

2 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

2. If we could move Oliver at all, it would be for either a similarly performing player with a similar contract situation or a flip of late picks.

 

I actually think that moving Oliver might be something we look at, but I agree with you - he would either be moved for a draft pick or, in the kind of swap that brought Jerry Hughes here and sent Kelvin Sheppard to the Colts - swap players who show flashes but didn't quite live up to the needs of their drafting teams, and see if they're a better fit in another scheme under different coaching.

 

2 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

3. I wholeheartedly agree with drafting a C this year. I would not rush Morse off the team this year though. Lots of responsibilities for a C, including making line calls and not getting shoved back into their FQB. 
 

4. Sure on Bates. Brown should stay at OT, but he should get competition for the starting job. 
 

5. I’m certainly good with using a pick on a RT.

 

Agreed on all points.