In case anyone wondered - Kumerow had back surgery

[Meatloaf63]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

OK, Einstein.  Let's put into the mix that Daboll's WR use was driven by the fact that his #1, Sterling Shepard, was on IR and their hoped-for #2, 2021 1st round pick Kadarius Toney, worked his way out of town.  That left them very thin.   So Hodgins was actually their #2 WR, getting 80% of the snaps.

 

Their "Gabe Davis" as it were.  Are you seriously trying to argue that we should have put Gabe Davis on the bench for Isaiah Hodgins?

 

Hodgins had his chance in preseason to make that case.  He didn't.

 

 

I don’t know, what was Hodgins drop percentage vs Gabe’s? Gabe needs a wake up call, too unreliable and too limited at this point.

[Einstein]

3 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

OK, Einstein.  Let's put into the mix that Daboll's WR use was driven by the fact that his #1, Sterling Shepard, was on IR and their hoped-for #2, 2021 1st round pick Kadarius Toney, worked his way out of town.  That left them very thin.   So Hodgins was actually their #2 WR, getting 80% of the snaps.

 

Their "Gabe Davis" as it were.  Are you seriously trying to argue that we should have put Gabe Davis on the bench for Isaiah Hodgins?

 

Sorry but you're not going to twist my words and use this odd logic to get me into a debate. I never said he was a #2.

 

Daboll signed Hodgins to his 53 man roster. We kept him on the PS. Daboll started Hodgins. We (even when activated) barely let him see the field. Daboll saw Hodgins as a #3. We saw him as a #5 or #6. 

 

And im not sure if you noticed, but with Kumerow on IR, Crowder on IR, and Davis limping with his ankle... we were just as thin at WR.

 

 

 

I don't really know what to make of the Bills talent recognition and scouting in general right now. We have a good roster, but we also have an All-Pro Guard in Cleveland that was on our team, a starting WR in NY that was on our team, Hughes had a stellar year in Houston (9 sacks, 10 QB hits, 2 Forced Fumbles, 10 tackles for loss), we signed castoff O-linemen, and we let go of Beasley, Klein and Brown just to bring them right back mid-season. 

[Saxum]

On 1/27/2023 at 11:21 AM, Beck Water said:

Kicking yourself serves no purpose. 

 

Some people are so double jointed they can kick themselves in back of head.

[Saxum]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

I don't really know what to make of the Bills talent recognition and scouting in general right now. We have a good roster, but we also have an All-Pro Guard in Cleveland that was on our team, a starting WR in NY that was on our team, Hughes had a stellar year in Houston (9 sacks, 10 QB hits, 2 Forced Fumbles, 10 tackles for loss), we signed castoff O-linemen, and we let go of Beasley, Klein and Brown just to bring them right back mid-season. 

 

• Beasley forced himself out.
• They wanted to keep Klein (and Dean Marlowe) but salary cap prevented it and were brought back at much lower rate for portion of season.
• Brown seemed to run out of steam and may have needed time to recover some physically but not sure if he can sustain it for a season.

 

Players were brought back because they needed players with experience with coaches and schemes.  The WRs in particular had experience with Josh.  At the time they were brought back the team was limited in number of practices they could have per agreement with NFLPA - sure they could practice by themselves off site like Titans players did but something team would advocate or depend on.

 

Guard was not All-Pro when traded.  He had potential but lots of players do and never reach it.

 

Hughes got significantly less playing for Texans even considering tax advantages.  Would he be willing to stay in Buffalo on lower cap value?

[Einstein]

12 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

Players were brought back because they needed players with experience with coaches and schemes. 

 

I'm aware. We all know what happened. The point was that the leaders of the team did not have the foresight to see these things coming. 

 

 

12 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

Guard was not All-Pro when traded.  He had potential but lots of players do and never reach it.

 

That's, again, the point. The best NFL coaches and executives "see the future" so to speak. You don't get a lot of money because you see the obvious. You don't become a hall-of-fame GM or coach because you pick or keep players after they're already studs. You become the legend by being so good at your job that you know who to cut or trade when, and know it won't bite you in the butt.

 

12 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

Hughes got significantly less playing for Texans even considering tax advantages.  Would he be willing to stay in Buffalo on lower cap value?

 

Why not? Did we try? We didn't cut him, his contract was just up. Did we try to sign him for a similar number? I don't know. 

[Saxum]

3 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I'm aware. We all know what happened. The point was that the leaders of the team did not have the foresight to see these things coming. 

 

 

Disagree.  They paid out money to those who felt were future of team and needed to cut money elsewhere.

Bringing in Van Miller to get over hump was a significant investment.

Despite what some claim there IS a cap in NFL and the question is when you run into the wall.

[Goin Breakdown]

On 1/27/2023 at 11:14 AM, ClemsonBills said:

Herniated discs suck

I have one now. Been struggling for 6 months. It effs with your head after a while. 

[Sharky7337]

3 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

As shown by you taking the time to read this thread and post here.

Free clue: when I want to persuade someone "we really didn't care right now", I don't use my time to, well, show that I care enough to do that.

Yes Mrs K

[Beck Water]

8 hours ago, Einstein said:

Sorry but you're not going to twist my words and use this odd logic to get me into a debate. I never said he was a #2.

 

There is no "odd logic" here.  The fact is, Hodgins exhibited the production he exhibited in NYC as the #2 WR - he saw the field for 80% of the snaps (that's a fact) which is #2 WR territory, not #3 WR territory, whatever you may or may not have said.

 

And the fact is, he got that opportunity in NYC because they had a lot of injuries at the top of their WR depth chart.

He didn't get that opportunity here, because we had WR ahead of him.

 

8 hours ago, Einstein said:

Daboll signed Hodgins to his 53 man roster. We kept him on the PS.

 

The fact is, Hodgins was on the 53 man roster here from October 3 until November 1, when we waived him and NY claimed him off waivers.

During that time, he did not see the field much - because we had 4 healthy WR ahead of him.

 

This really is logic a chap with the screen name "Einstein" ought to be able to handle.

 

If you think Hodgins would have had the same production here as in NYC if we sat Davis, or McKenzie, or Shakir, and played him ahead of them, I don't know what to tell you.  That's some weird offensive skills and even offensive production evaluation.

 

Hodgins production in NYC was 43 ypg on 78% of the snaps per game

Gabe Davis put up 55.7 ypg on 91% of the snaps per game 

McKenzie is a different style of receiver playing a different role, that Hodgins would not have filled.

 

 

8 hours ago, Einstein said:

I don't really know what to make of the Bills talent recognition and scouting in general right now. We have a good roster, but we also have an All-Pro Guard in Cleveland that was on our team

 

Wyatt Teller was not an all-pro guard when he was traded to Cleveland.

Nor was he an all-pro guard for 2 years after he was traded to Cleveland

He also became an all-pro on a run-first team where run blocking is of paramount importance and the run sets up the pass.

 

With the benefit of hindsight, would Beane have liked to keep him, I'm sure, but speaking of twisting words and odd logic - stop writing as though we cut an all-pro guard or as though the same skillset that made a guy an all-pro in Cleveland would have been what was needed here.

[Einstein]

33 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

There is no "odd logic" here.  The fact is, Hodgins exhibited the production he exhibited in NYC as the #2 WR - he saw the field for 80% of the snaps (that's a fact) which is #2 WR territory, not #3 WR territory, whatever you may or may not have said.

 

And the fact is, he got that opportunity in NYC because they had a lot of injuries at the top of their WR depth chart.

He didn't get that opportunity here, because we had WR ahead of him.

 

 

The fact is, Hodgins was on the 53 man roster here from October 3 until November 1, when we waived him and NY claimed him off waivers.

During that time, he did not see the field much - because we had 4 healthy WR ahead of him.

 

This really is logic a chap with the screen name "Einstein" ought to be able to handle.

 

If you think Hodgins would have had the same production here as in NYC if we sat Davis, or McKenzie, or Shakir, and played him ahead of them, I don't know what to tell you.  That's some weird offensive skills and even offensive production evaluation.

 

Hodgins production in NYC was 43 ypg on 78% of the snaps per game

Gabe Davis put up 55.7 ypg on 91% of the snaps per game 

McKenzie is a different style of receiver playing a different role, that Hodgins would not have filled.

 

 

 

Wyatt Teller was not an all-pro guard when he was traded to Cleveland.

Nor was he an all-pro guard for 2 years after he was traded to Cleveland

He also became an all-pro on a run-first team where run blocking is of paramount importance and the run sets up the pass.

 

With the benefit of hindsight, would Beane have liked to keep him, I'm sure, but speaking of twisting words and odd logic - stop writing as though we cut an all-pro guard or as though the same skillset that made a guy an all-pro in Cleveland would have been what was needed here.

 

Your argument is basically “Our coaches and GM can’t evaluate talent well enough to see the hidden gems in players, but don’t blame them”. The fact that Hodgins had 5 people in front of him when he was WR2 or WR3 quality is the literal point!

 

Wow.

 

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by Einstein

[Saxum]

4 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

This really is logic a chap with the screen name "Einstein" ought to be able to handle.

 

 

Clearly from his posting experience he is no Einstein but I may be a wrong and he could be an absolutely brilliant troll doing a Hogboy job posting here.