Singletary or Hines or neither?

[Buckets]

6 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

Cook isn't going anywhere.  He has looked better as the season progressed and still has three years left on his rookie contract and has a cap friendly hit of $1.3mm in 2023.  I don't think Beane is going to keep both Singletary and Hines.  It is going to be one or the other.

 

Nyheim's contract is not cheap, his cap hit in 2023 is $4.79mm, and in 2024 it is $5.48 

https://overthecap.com/player/nyheim-hines/6989

 

Singletary is an unrestricted free agent and according to Sportrac his projected free agent contract should be right around $5.5mm annually for three years.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/devin-singletary-29110/market-value/

 

Hines is great in the return game and has stand alone value in that respect.  He has more speed than Motor and is probably a better receiving back than Motor.  We haven't seen him carry the ball much.  In his five years in the league the most carries he's had in a season was 89 in 2020.  That year he averaged 4.3 yds per carry.  His career average is 3.9 yds per carry.  The most receptions Hines had in a season was 63 in both '18 and '20.  His career average yds per reception is 7.4 yds.  Across his career, Hines catch percentage is 77%.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HineNy00.htm

 

Singletary had 177 carries this year and averaged 4.6 yds per carry.  He had 38 receptions this year with an average of 7.4 yds per reception.  The most receptions he's had was 40 in the '21 season.  Across Motor's career, his catch percentage is 75%.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SingDe00.htm

 

The question is which back, Motor or Hines, compliments Cooks the best?  In Cook we have a speedy / receiving back.  That is the same skill set that Hines brings to the table, plus his return skills.  Does it make sense for the offense to have their two primary RBs with essentially the same skill set?  Also, are Cook and Hines able to soak up the 170 plus carries Singletary has a season?   Cooks has looked good running the ball but has a smaller frame.  Can we expect him to hold up carrying the ball 100+ times a year in the NFL?

 

Singletary's projected free agent contract isn't much more than what Hines is under contract for now.  What does Beane decide to do?  The problem is I don't think Beane can afford both.  Beane's last option is to release both of them and build around Cook with new faces.

 

 

Cook plus a new face draft or otherwise.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Buckets
Spelling

[TheBrownBear]

I like both players, but I think Singletary is more valuable for what we like to do.  Singletary is a fine first and second down back and a surprisingly strong tackle breaker at his size.  Hines' ceiling on offense is a gadget guy, since he's not a tackle breaker/pile mover when handed the ball.  I think Hines could be a great weapon in a well schemed offense, but that isn't what we are now under Dorsey, so no point in eating up cap space with a return specialist.  So, cut Hines, and then I think it comes down to trying to get Singletary to take a team friendly deal or replace him with a 3rd or 4th round rookie RB (or Duke Johnson type FA) to split carries with Cook.

[gjv]

Bijan Robinson is the one player in the draft that could fall to the Bills and have the greatest positive impact. I would even go so far as to recommend if Robinson was available around pick 18, the Bills should be calling to trade up.

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, transient said:

As opposed to the inherent lifetime value in watching men run around chasing another man with a ball? 

Yeah….. opposed to that

[DapperCam]

4 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

He's the best return man we've had since Roberts left, why cut him and leave a hole at depth RB and return man? I think we brought Hines in so Shakir and/or McKenzie can focus on WR and while he'll remain. 

Because we’re tight to the cap and a return man can be had for much cheaper. His cap hit could pay for half of a competent guard.

[RyanC883]

if we can let both go without dead cap that may be the best thing to do.  We can draft someone who can return kicks, and also draft another RB.  Use the cap savings on WR, OL.  

50 minutes ago, gjv said:

Bijan Robinson is the one player in the draft that could fall to the Bills and have the greatest positive impact. I would even go so far as to recommend if Robinson was available around pick 18, the Bills should be calling to trade up.

 

you'll get downvoted for this, but he profiles as the rare back that is a do it all game changer (although I would not trade up for him).  

[Mango]

7 hours ago, NewEra said:

Cut Hines. 
 

Hope that one of them will take a team friendly deal. If not, use that money on another position and bring back Duke and draft a RB mid-late.  
 

or Bijan 🤣 

 

I like the idea of bringing Duke back to help fill out the RB room. 

Edited January 27, 2023 by Mango

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I would say neither, we already have Cook and don’t need 3 RB’s with the same running style.

53 minutes ago, gjv said:

Bijan Robinson is the one player in the draft that could fall to the Bills and have the greatest positive impact. I would even go so far as to recommend if Robinson was available around pick 18, the Bills should be calling to trade up.

I agree, there are only a hand full of RB’s that I would even entertain taking in the 1st rd. This is one of the few that I would.

[SydneyBillsFan]

I distinctly remember guys on the Colts board saying that Hines was not a 3-down or short yardage RB, and that Reich was not utilising his skill set when Taylor got injured. So we need to take this into account - he cannot be a straight swap for Motor.

 

Singletary has been labelled too small and not a thumper but I call BS on that one. Who can forget his final rush to get the first down against the fish - he literally carried 3 guys to seal the game. Not sure how anyone can be an effective RB behind that line. I think 4.6 yards per carry is pretty good under the circumstances. 

 

Given that Cook is almost certain to stay, it seems inevitable that one of the other two may be shown the door. And unless Motor is prepared to take a pay cut then I fear it will be him.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

We have no RB on the roster that is a big enough threat to even attempt play action.

1 minute ago, SydneyBillsFan said:

I distinctly remember guys on the Colts board saying that Hines was not a 3-down or short yardage RB, and that Reich was not utilising his skill set when Taylor got injured. So we need to take this into account - he cannot be a straight swap for Motor.

 

Singletary has been labelled too small and not a thumper but I call BS on that one. Who can forget his final rush to get the first down against the fish - he literally carried 3 guys to seal the game. Not sure how anyone can be an effective RB behind that line. I think 4.6 yards per carry is pretty good under the circumstances. 

 

Given that Cook is almost certain to stay, it seems inevitable that one of the other two may be shown the door. And unless Motor is prepared to take a pay cut then I fear it will be him.

I think one of McD’s glaring weaknesses is that he over value’s average players

[NastyNateSoldiers]

8 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

Cook isn't going anywhere.  He has looked better as the season progressed and still has three years left on his rookie contract and has a cap friendly hit of $1.3mm in 2023.  I don't think Beane is going to keep both Singletary and Hines.  It is going to be one or the other.

 

Nyheim's contract is not cheap, his cap hit in 2023 is $4.79mm, and in 2024 it is $5.48 

https://overthecap.com/player/nyheim-hines/6989

 

Singletary is an unrestricted free agent and according to Sportrac his projected free agent contract should be right around $5.5mm annually for three years.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/devin-singletary-29110/market-value/

 

Hines is great in the return game and has stand alone value in that respect.  He has more speed than Motor and is probably a better receiving back than Motor.  We haven't seen him carry the ball much.  In his five years in the league the most carries he's had in a season was 89 in 2020.  That year he averaged 4.3 yds per carry.  His career average is 3.9 yds per carry.  The most receptions Hines had in a season was 63 in both '18 and '20.  His career average yds per reception is 7.4 yds.  Across his career, Hines catch percentage is 77%.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HineNy00.htm

 

Singletary had 177 carries this year and averaged 4.6 yds per carry.  He had 38 receptions this year with an average of 7.4 yds per reception.  The most receptions he's had was 40 in the '21 season.  Across Motor's career, his catch percentage is 75%.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SingDe00.htm

 

The question is which back, Motor or Hines, compliments Cooks the best?  In Cook we have a speedy / receiving back.  That is the same skill set that Hines brings to the table, plus his return skills.  Does it make sense for the offense to have their two primary RBs with essentially the same skill set?  Also, are Cook and Hines able to soak up the 170 plus carries Singletary has a season?   Cooks has looked good running the ball but has a smaller frame.  Can we expect him to hold up carrying the ball 100+ times a year in the NFL?

 

Singletary's projected free agent contract isn't much more than what Hines is under contract for now.  What does Beane decide to do?  The problem is I don't think Beane can afford both.  Beane's last option is to release both of them and build around Cook with new faces.

 

 

This team needs a bellow back a big strong physically explosive back that can carry the load when necessary. A true 3 down back think David Johnson type or better . Not Singletary nor Cook or Hines have that type of skill set . Those 4.6 yds per carry I like to call them empty calorie carries because they never really come when u need them most . Our backs for the last 2yrs have seen the most light boxes in the league and they should be much better considering that. 
 

I don’t think people really know how much we need an elite back on this team with a competent Oline . It would make a world of difference. So I say keep Cook cut Hines or make him take a massive paycut and still add an all purpose back to carry the load. Now getting a great back doesn’t mean we have to become a running team but it would make it much harder for opponents to gameplan against and it would relieve a ton of stress off of Allen shoulders . Whenever we see KC or Cinny in a big game let’s see them give us those 8 man secondaries we can gash em all day. 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

4 hours ago, frostbitmic said:

It's all about Special Teams ...

 

Hines returns kicks quite well

Singletary doesn't play ST's

 

Cook will be the #1 RB next season,,, Having a tank in the RB room would be a good thing to have on the rare snow game days.

If Kirby Smart and Georgia didn’t think Cook was a #1 back why would the Bills think of him as one. In his 4yrs in college he had 230 carrie’s total and I believe the highest was in the 80s . If McBeane believe Cook can carry the load they got another thing coming to them he’d be hurt or worn down by week 8 . But then again this regime never ceases to amaze me there as bone headed as they come. 

[Mango]

2 minutes ago, SydneyBillsFan said:

I distinctly remember guys on the Colts board saying that Hines was not a 3-down or short yardage RB, and that Reich was not utilising his skill set when Taylor got injured. So we need to take this into account - he cannot be a straight swap for Motor.

 

Singletary has been labelled too small and not a thumper but I call BS on that one. Who can forget his final rush to get the first down against the fish - he literally carried 3 guys to seal the game. Not sure how anyone can be an effective RB behind that line. I think 4.6 yards per carry is pretty good under the circumstances. 

 

Given that Cook is almost certain to stay, it seems inevitable that one of the other two may be shown the door. And unless Motor is prepared to take a pay cut then I fear it will be him.

 

I totally agree. Singletary has gotten much stronger since he was drafted. He isn't big or fast, but he is shifty and has learned to hit the hole well. He has carried a lot of defenders this year. 

 

[oldmanfan]

Both.  Improve the lines and Motor will shine.  Wake Dorsey up and use Hines all over the field.

[Aussie Joe]

5 hours ago, khlax3 said:

I think Hines will be back and his contract will be re-worked. They will add a year or 2 to the contract and give him some guaranteed money to reduce his cap hit. He provides value as a KR/PR/RB. If you let him and singletary go you need to go out and sign at least 2 running backs. 
 

I would expect to see a running back room of 

cook- cap hit 1.3

Hines - 3 million

bigger back vet around 2 to 2.5 million cap space 

It’s like you read my mind …although I think the bigger back might be a late round pick to save some money..( if they keep Hines) 

[BigAl2526]

8 hours ago, Dopey said:

I don’t see Hines getting a ton of carries. I think he’ll be our primary kick returner. He’s really good at it. Singletary leaves for more money. We’ll draft a rb late and a fa. Just my thoughts. 

I agree that Hines and Cook are not cut out to be a workhouse back.   I think Hines could probably handle more carries than Cook.  That is unless Cook can add a little weight like his older brother and still retain his quickness/speed.  You're right - if Singletary departs he'll have to be replaced.  It might be earlier in the draft than you project though.  Just my opinion.

[Maybe Someday]

I doubt Singletary wants to resign with us.  He averaged just over 10 carries a game this past season (which is ridiculous but that's for another thread).  About 30 backs had more carries than he did last year.  I think he'll go somewhere that says will give him the ball more.  

 

I see Cook, Hines and a FA type back with some size.  

[MrEpsYtown]

1 minute ago, Maybe Someday said:

I doubt Singletary wants to resign with us.  He averaged just over 10 carries a game this past season (which is ridiculous but that's for another thread).  About 30 backs had more carries than he did last year.  I think he'll go somewhere that says will give him the ball more.  

 

I see Cook, Hines and a FA type back with some size.  

Yeah nobody is going to sign Devin to be a feature back. Maybe a #2. I hope that he is not back. He ain’t it. 

[Maybe Someday]

4 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Yeah nobody is going to sign Devin to be a feature back. Maybe a #2. I hope that he is not back. He ain’t it. 

He can be part of a pretty good duo though. He’s got a really good career YPC. If only he weren’t so slow. 

[MrEpsYtown]

1 minute ago, Maybe Someday said:

He can be part of a pretty good duo though. He’s got a really good career YPC. If only he weren’t so slow. 

I hear ya, I still don’t he will ever be more than a 10-12 carry a game guy. Hes meh